 Poster: A snowHead
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I did a one day CPD yesterday at Chill Factore in Manchester. I was a bit concerned about getting there from Leeds with snowmaggedon forecast, so went the night before and stayed closeby.
There doesn't seem to much info on snowheads around this, so I wasn't sure what to expect.
In summary I thought it was a good use of my time. It ran from 9-5pm, with no more than an hour in the class room, the rest was on the snow. We started a little late due to someone not showing!
There was 10 of us on the course, 2 doing a L1 tech resit, 1 guy seemed to just turn up "on spec" as a precursor to doing his L1 and got in due to the no show. 1 IASA, and the rest were L1 or L2.
Trainer was Ed Brown, looks like he's doing a UK tour of these before heading back to the Alps.
Official BASI blurb on why you need to do this is below. I think as long as you have a "touchpoint" with BASI, ie for me if I'd done any L3 courses my CPD counter would be reset by that course.
The BASI CPD system has also been designed to comply with ISIA requirements for those members who hold Level 3 ISIA or Level 4 ISTD levels of qualification.
What CPD credits are you required to do?
Level 1 & 2 members require minimum of 1 credit every 3 years
Level 3 ISIA & 4 ISTD members require minimum of 3 credits every 3 years
So the morning was spent on longs, J turn drills into linked turns with some videoing done that was reviewed after lunch
Straight after lunch we reviewed the videos then did some theory on the TIED model.
The afternoon was spent on central theme with a rapid run through of Sliding, plough, plough turns onto plough parallel and developing into performance shorts for the rest of the afternoon.
This was interesting for me as when I did all my shadowing hours the instructors were teaching the plough stop. This seems to be discouraged now, and students taught to turn to stop. Reasoning is that developing a huge wide snowplough stop hinders rotation when you want students to do plough turns.
This isn't a pass/fail course so a lot less stressful (apart from the two doing their resit), and also a good chance to do some technical detailed skiing and self evaluate or have others evaluate, as well as getting some good feedback on how to improve from the trainer.
I got a few good tips I've noted down for my own personal performance and also some clarity on teaching central theme, so all in all a good use of my time.
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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Nice write up, thanks.
Were there any other changes in terms of expected standards for the various strands, shorts longs etc.?
I heard elsewhere that level 2 shorts, for example, were moving more towards the carvier end of the spectrum.
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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@sledger, we only got into expected L1 standards which don't seem to have changed from when I did my L1 5 years ago....
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| kitenski wrote: |
| ...This was interesting for me as when I did all my shadowing hours the instructors were teaching the plough stop. This seems to be discouraged now, and students taught to turn to stop. Reasoning is that developing a huge wide snowplough stop hinders rotation when you want students to do plough turns... |
Glad to hear it. As a former beginner, there’s far too much emphasis on ploughing. It’s not a safe way to stop imo. Need to be getting them competent on parallels much much sooner.
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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@ALQ, yup that was his point, the plough ain’t going to stop a beginner when they get to the top of even an indoor snow centre!! Best to learn to turn! Refreshing to see BASI adapting and changing IMHO
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You'll need to Register first of course.
You'll need to Register first of course.
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| kitenski wrote: |
| ...when I did all my shadowing hours the instructors were teaching the plough stop. This seems to be discouraged now, and students taught to turn to stop. Reasoning is that developing a huge wide snowplough stop hinders rotation when you want students to do plough turns... |
Interesting... from my initial foundation course (now L1) in 95, through all the years I worked as an alpine trainer the plough stop was only ever a 'mountain skill' (ie something that might be useful to have up your sleeve) but not part of the Central Theme progression (as a wide braking plough makes it much harder to steer the plough and hence develop control through steering).
That being said, when I started teaching in Scotland on patches of snow with streams/heather/snowfences (delete as appropriate) at the bottom then actually a braking plough was the first thing to teach for obvious reasons... (Depending on where you did your shadowing the same may apply).
However, and to counter ALQs point above, ploughing (and the ability to plough stop) is a very necessary 'mountain skill' and having seen people coming out of 'new direct method' in the States in 99/2000 who could carve a mean carve but had absolutely no ability to skid a ski (which is exactly what a plough does) and also had no ability to ski slowly down narrow paths, then direct-to-parallel-as-quickly-as-possibly definitely has massive flaws...
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@offpisteskiing, indeed stopping in an off piste narrow track/path was my answer to when you’d use a plough stop!
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@offpisteskiing, The plough definitely has it’s place (e.g. shallow narrow track as you describe), but side-slipping (a parallel skill) is far far more important and the rotation that goes with it. (Edit: basically agreeing with your first paragraph).
Beginners need this (and the skills that go with it) immediately imho. Much more control of speed (edge control) and direction (fore-aft) n therefore much safer. Gets me out of some tight spots (eg. Blimmin mogul fields after my legs are shot).
Last edited by After all it is free  on Tue 12-12-17 19:53; edited 1 time in total
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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| kitenski wrote: |
| ...Refreshing to see BASI adapting and changing IMHO |
+1
Of course, baby-bath water caveat applies, but I do hope they do less ploughing. I’m sure it will make for much quicker progression from beginner to intermediate as well as produce much more all-round competent skiers.
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@ALQ, my takeaway was they wanted narrow ploughs and two footed steering which will mean more competent beginners will parallel naturally quicker if they get the steering and weight distribution aspects sorted along with a bit more pace !
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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@kitenski, Well, they know what they’re doing. Every other eu ski school system teaches plough as the foundation.
A narrow plough is closer to parallel, I suppose ... perhaps they’ll go the whole way eventually 
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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@kitenski, just a pedantic query on your thread title - you say "formally known as BASI refresher". Do you mean BASI refresher is its official (formal) name, or that it was previously (formerly) known as BASI refresher?
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@Alastair Pink, it used to be called a refresher I believe
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You know it makes sense.
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Yes, the CPD is one of the best bits of BASI, especially the 3-day courses in the mountains. Very challenging as you actually have to teach something new to people who have been teaching for decades!
Re Snowplough glide and brake:
I would say that the snowplough and progression to snowplough turn is the fundamental for all turning.
Hence the reason you see racer camps practising edge control at very slow speed in snowploughs.
It has all the fundamental elements in the one exercise
BASI has always made clear that the snowplough glide and brake isn't really for stopping, but it's a necessary preliminary, and has its uses when queuing.
As for spending less time learning ploughing?
That was seen as trendy back in the early days of shaped skis. But IMHO, that's doing it the long way, because it will need to be learned all over again later.
happy sliding 😉
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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Plough stopping is necessary to ensure the skier is "safe" and can stop on the slope. Once you know they are safe then you can start work on their ski-ing and move further up the slope.
I will never take beginners up a slope unless Is know they can stop. Its a safety issue not a ski-ing one.
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Poster: A snowHead
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| donford wrote: |
I will never take beginners up a slope unless Is know they can stop. |
Just trying to think how that works in practice.... Unless you take them up the slope they won't be able to ski down the slope to show whether they can stop or not 
Can you tell just by looking at them?
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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| red 27 wrote: |
| donford wrote: |
I will never take beginners up a slope unless Is know they can stop. |
Just trying to think how that works in practice.... Unless you take them up the slope they won't be able to ski down the slope to show whether they can stop or not
Can you tell just by looking at them? |
No. You start on a level slope then move them onto a slight slope and making sure they can plough stop and work up from there, each time checking they are safe and can stop where you tell them to. If you are lucky you may have beginner slopes with a slight uphill rise at the bottom so you know they will stop there anyway but others may not have this.
For example the beginner slope at Glenshee has a rather nasty drop off and a fence at the end so ability to stop is needed. But every time I'm there I see beginners either trying to self-teach or even worse, parents letting little Angelica and Hugo go from the top without them knowing how to stop, resulting in them crying in a heap somewhere.
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FAQ
