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Inside Ski Control

 Poster: A snowHead
Poster: A snowHead
Was looking back through my Flickr photos and I came across this still from a GoPro clip. I've been trying to concentrate on weighting the outside ski which I'm slowly improving on, but one of the side effects seems to be the inside ski drifting, if that's the right word - basically the tip flaring out and lifting.

Any suggestions for remedying this? (And anything else you can see!)

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@narbs, you are leaning back, hence the tip lifting and only the tail of the inside ski is engaged. Get centered on the ski....cut n paste from another thread I replied on below...

DO THIS ON A REALLY EASY GREEN SLOPE

try lifting *JUST* the tail of the inside ski after a turn, when in the traverse and keep the tip pressed on the snow. I suspect you won't be able to do this at first. Once you can do this try and introduce the inner ski lift near the end of the turn, then introduce it earlier and earlier in the turn. Ensure JUST the tail is lifted and tip is on the snow. Look at the drill 3min 20secs into this video


http://youtube.com/v/mK0phPEMsag


Last edited by Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person on Tue 5-12-17 23:35; edited 1 time in total
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@narbs, at what point in the turn does this happen? Start, end? A couple of things to think about, if the inside ski is diverging (steering a tighter arc than the outside ski) one likely cause is you are moving your centre of mass inside the turn too much, getting stuck on your inside ski and not balancing effectively on the outside ski through until the end of the turn. If you are lifting the tip inside ski you are either too far back, and/or not balancing effectively on the outside ski at the start of the turn (if the lifting occurs at the start of the turn).
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@narbs, Does it occur when you ski without a rucksack?
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Thanks all.

@kitenski, thanks, I'll use that exercise.

@rob@rar, I'll fish out the video but I'm sure the inside ski starts out flat and parallel, and moves up and out through the turn. Clearly still not enough weight on the outside ski?

@ALQ, no idea! I'll do some testing.
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narbs wrote:
@rob@rar, I'll fish out the video but I'm sure the inside ski starts out flat and parallel, and moves up and out through the turn. Clearly still not enough weight on the outside ski?
That might account for it, posting the video will help to see what's going on.
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kitenski wrote:
@narbs, you are leaning back, hence the tip lifting and only the tail of the inside ski is engaged. Get centered on the ski....cut n paste from another thread I replied on below...

DO THIS ON A REALLY EASY GREEN SLOPE

try lifting *JUST* the tail of the inside ski after a turn, when in the traverse and keep the tip pressed on the snow. I suspect you won't be able to do this at first. Once you can do this try and introduce the inner ski lift near the end of the turn, then introduce it earlier and earlier in the turn. Ensure JUST the tail is lifted and tip is on the snow. Look at the drill 3min 20secs into this video


http://youtube.com/v/mK0phPEMsag


I've done that drill during the Castleford mogul course, very good it is as well. He refers to it in that video as a Dolphin turn, I thought a dolphin turn was on both skis and more of a flippy popping off the tails onto the tips?
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@endoman,

you said...
Quote:

He refers to it in that video as a Dolphin turn, I thought a dolphin turn was on both skis and more of a flippy popping off the tails onto the tips?



and i would agree with you and i hope all PSIA, CSIA, BASI would to...see this:
'
http://youtube.com/v/-WWkKOSoYEs '
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@narbs,

Quote:

Any suggestions for remedying this? (And anything else you can see!)



this comment comes under 'and anything else you can see'...umm, that RH pole looks very long.

Also, in the pose that i see, it looks to me like 60/70% weighted on R downhill ski with 40/30% on L uphill ski . It's clear you're standing mostly on your R leg and hips and body position confirm this imo. I think you're in a fairly good stance ( to my eye), ready for a brief transition into the next turn. Just on this one photo, this is all i can say...post some video if you want.

The way you hold the poles, arm positions, pole tips just off the snow etc in this brief moment look quite professional to me...quite BASI looking.

The 'transition period' , brief as you want it to be, is shown here...it's a moment where feet, hips, shoulders are all momentarily underneath one-another - bit like a 'reset' and a pre-turn, 'ready position' for good neutrality before entering into the next turn. If you commit yourself into a turn, carrying 'STUFF' over from the previous turn , then very quickly balance, timings and control all get progressively out of sync. Embarassed

'
http://youtube.com/v/qyfO8vs41GI '
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Yes the turn in the original video he called a dolphin turn is actually a stork turn since it looks like a stork lifting one leg. I think he's just getting confused between his animals Happy.

The video T_Hee has shows what I'd describe as a dolphin turn.
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rob@rar wrote:
narbs wrote:
@rob@rar, I'll fish out the video but I'm sure the inside ski starts out flat and parallel, and moves up and out through the turn. Clearly still not enough weight on the outside ski?
That might account for it, posting the video will help to see what's going on.


Apologies for the delay, finally managed to find the clip.


http://youtube.com/v/8SMnSyCNt6M

Hope this is helpful!
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@narbs, it looks like you are rushing the beginning of the turn by flicking your skis sideways, resulting in a zig-zag track down the piste rather than a set of smoothly linked, round turns. This is partly explained by you being a bit too far back on your skis, and leaning inside the turn a bit too ,much rather than balancing more effectively on the outside ski. The remedy is to make a more committed move to balance on your outside ski at the beginning of the turn, and balance on it more effectively as the ski turns through a natural arc rather than you quickly changing direction by flicking it sideways.
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@rob@rar, erm...???
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Swear filter?
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@Penry, well yes, but I'm struggling to work out the word he used.
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Laughing Laughing Laughing This is priceless.

My money is on "pushing". Shomething went a bit wrong.

As for the OP's question, how about "finding your little toe edge"??
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Lol, I've finally worked out which profanity causes that substitution - it has been bugging me for a while. But I have no idea how @rob@rar managed to type it in place of (what I guess should be) pushing. Twice.

Fecking
Fecking
eejit Wink Laughing Madeye-Smiley
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Perhaps he's pushed. I mean pished....
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pam w wrote:
Perhaps he's pushed. I mean pished....


Well it seems rob certainly has...twice Laughing
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@pam w,
Quote:

As for the OP's question, how about "finding your little toe edge"??
Good point. But that won't help if the problem is tail-swishing/not enough weight on the outside ski. If the outside ski is actually carving, then finding the little toe edge of the inside ski will help to keep it under control. (Finding my little toe edge was my very first light bulb moment with Inside Out Skiing. Little Angel There have been many light bulb moments since, but not enough to keep me out of the dunces' class on my next trip with them. Embarassed )

@Tubaski, Laughing Laughing
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Quote:

but not enough to keep me out of the dunce's class on my next trip with them.

I shall tell @skimottaret you called him that @hurtle Toofy Grin
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@Tubaski, Laughing Laughing My apostrophe was in the right place before you moved it, don't think I didn't notice! Are you on that trip, then?
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@Hurtle, yep - managed to take advantage of the late extra availability. See you in a couple of weeks & a bit.
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@Tubaski, excellent. Very Happy
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@rob@rar, ha, wasn't expecting that!

I've got your stork drill exercise to increase balance on the outside ski so I'll practice with that - which if I'm correct is similar to finding the little toe edge.

@T_Hee, being told that I look quite professional is the pinnacle of my skiing career to date - thank you Laughing
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Tubaski wrote:
Lol, I've finally worked out which profanity causes that substitution - it has been bugging me for a while. But I have no idea how @rob@rar managed to type it in place of (what I guess should be) pushing. Twice.

(Oh dear, I'm rather losing my cool - I think I might have wee-weed myself a little bit Embarassed)
Fecking
eejit Wink Laughing Madeye-Smiley


Ah, good find. I got as close as 'screwing', then I got side tracked by the idea of putting totally random word replacements into the swear filter, like pole for lemon etc
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narbs wrote:
@rob@rar, ha, wasn't expecting that!

I've got your stork drill exercise to increase balance on the outside ski so I'll practice with that - which if I'm correct is similar to finding the little toe edge.

Stork drills will have you balancing on your outside ski, where the big toe edge is engaged with the snow (the inside edge of the outside ski). What I think @hurtle is talking about is a step beyond that, back on two skis, controlling the angle of the inside ski so that the little toe edge engages (but with the majority of weight still on the outside ski) so that both skis track together and you cut two clean lines in the snow (this is the outside edge of the inside ski).
If you try finding the little toe edge whilst doing stork drills its unlikely to end well Smile
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What makes you think it was the swear filter? I could have just got a little carried away with the excitement of talking about Skiing rather than Brexit...
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Laughing Laughing
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@narbs, I like your movement patterns. Particularly the forward projection into the next turn, reasonably parallel legs, matched skis throughout the curve cycle and fair amounts of angulation and proportionate ankle , knee and hips flexing. Nice arm carriage and pole touches to.

I think with say a 30% sharpening all this up - it could all end up very tidy and sharp etc.

I expect you feel pretty relaxed and not shattered after a days skiing - you looked reasonably 'stacked' in your stance - hips over feet etc.

I like your ROTARY turns on that piste. IMV it's the right choice in those circumstances. I think current teaching is a little to 'CARVE' centric.

Now as to your original question, i can see especially in your left footed turns ( turning right) ( and there the other way as well) , there is less commitment to the downhill ski and you lean inside ( bank) into the hill with weight shifting increasingly backwards ( during turn 'last', or 'control' phase ) onto the rear of the inside ski. Hmm, convention says you need to press MORE ( stand more ) over the outside ski with increasing hip angulation to maintain outside ski pressure and stop it slipping and prevent falling inside etc. I'm thinking 'Hip and Rib' and ' Hand to Knee ' drills and also, javelin turns. To keep upper body perpendicular to snow throughout the turn try 'paint the snow aka drag poles' drill.

Some good drills are shown here...by highly respected Reilly McGlashan...
'
http://youtube.com/v/E7NQRvRW4wE '

Now please pay attention to this comment - yes, you have free 'will', BUT personally (IMHO), don't become 'so' mechanically rigid as Reilly 'appears' in this video. These 'rigid wings' of arm position bemuse me as to their purpose and contribution to effortless fun skiing!

You might also notice Reilly has a quiet upper body with little increasing flex or angulation during the turn. I disagree with this as again i think amounts of body position should be in accordance to external forces increasing / decreasing, if not 'tuning into/ reacting with' this, then we become 'set and rigid' structures before anything has actually happened or changed on us during our out little fun curve adventure...Reilly is of course, one of the best skiers on the planet! Cool

There are arguments talking about avoiding pressure spikes which could destabilize you - yes, i can see that, but i enjoy the 'full on/ almost off' pressure in short bursts under my feet. Basically though, you have to master both to be a good allround skier...experiment and try it all.

Take a look at this one...very very impressive. There's certainly no argument here about economy of motion.
'
http://youtube.com/v/djRXIBFy3w8 '
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To me the root cause looks like excessive rotation around the hips. Your hips are pointing down the slope as opposed to the direction of your skis’ travel hence loss of even ski pressure and as pointed out by Rob overly quick rotation of the skis to catch up the hips and upper body
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@T_Hee, Love the way Mc Glashan skis....must get me some rubber legs. Toofy Grin

FWIW. I also think the OP is using excessive foot rotation, which means the skis' shape is not being used to turn.
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The first exercise in the McGlashan second video. Holding the pole across your pelvis. Just tried it in the hallway, how the heck do you ski like that? Will try it on snow with someone behind to pick up the pole!
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@narbs,

To my untrained and unprofessional eye it looks like you are pressuring and rotating while trying to get an edge (unsucessfully). Your skis are scraping burnt toast. If you pressure and over rotate without first getting the edge you scrape. Try pulling the feet back to be over the centre of the skis, getting a slight edge first to get the skis in a grove, then pressure the skis and guide the inner ski round (with a bit of rotation after the fall line) all in the same grove for each ski. You could try tipping your inside ski first without putting much weight on it i.e. rather than trying to stamp the weight down on your outside ski take the weight off your inside ski. Your outside edge angle should automatically follow your inside edge. Ride / balance on the edges rather pressing down the hill.
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DB wrote:
Try pulling the feet back to be over the centre of the skis,


Puzzled Wouldn't that involve moving the bindings?

joking aside, good thread snowHead
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endoman wrote:
The first exercise in the McGlashan second video. Holding the pole across your pelvis. Just tried it in the hallway, how the heck do you ski like that

You need ski pants with belt loops Wink unless you're a proper clever dick Toofy Grin Toofy Grin
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@Tubaski, Laughing Laughing Laughing Laughing
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Tubaski wrote:
endoman wrote:
The first exercise in the McGlashan second video. Holding the pole across your pelvis. Just tried it in the hallway, how the heck do you ski like that

You need ski pants with belt loops Wink unless you're a proper clever dick Toofy Grin Toofy Grin


Or have a proper clever dick. But I kind of get the idea, I must ski way too upright. Shag not poo-poo I was told.
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Actually he explains in response to a comment on the you tube page...

Quote:
haha! I definitely do not have a beer belly! I am 170cm and 66kg, very thin build. You have to wedge it in between the hip flexor and the top of the pelvis...


I had a go, but I don't think I've got the right kind of poles. rolling eyes
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Thanks all, some really useful feedback and plenty of ideas to work on in January.
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