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UK expats applying for EU citizenship

 Poster: A snowHead
Poster: A snowHead
@WindOfChange, you only have to be B1 I think?
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 Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Ah - well that lowers the bar a bit.
How much does it cost btw?
We just renewed UK Passports and mine alone was GBP 102.00
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 Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
It's not cheap - language test is about 100 euros, depends whether you have to pay to order new copies of parental marriage and birth certificates as well as your own, it can cost a few hundred euros to get them officially translated, there is a charge for the police checks in both countries etc etc
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Plus sounds like your wife could do with French lessons - intensive group classes are about 200 a week I think.
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 Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Hey Folks Brexit May not happen...
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Once you have lived outside the UK for 15 years you lose your vote, so some British expats will want new citizenship irrespective of Brexit.
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 Then you can post your own questions or snow reports...
Then you can post your own questions or snow reports...
Hand Wringer wrote:
It's not cheap - language test is about 100 euros, depends whether you have to pay to order new copies of parental marriage and birth certificates as well as your own, it can cost a few hundred euros to get them officially translated, there is a charge for the police checks in both countries etc etc


Did you see the price of applying for British Citizenship, considerably higher.
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 After all it is free Go on u know u want to!
After all it is free Go on u know u want to!
@davidof, no but that doesn't surprise me - I've had a lot of friends go through the UK citizenship process and it's really not been an easy process for them at all, even for native anglophones.

I'm not too fussed about the cost for me and my husband but I suppose it is a consideration for WindOfChange if the whole family undergo the process.
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
What was cool was when I got my son's passport I got multilingual birth and marriage certs from the Mairie which the Brits accepted.
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Yeah there's 5 of us, although we have already done official translations for 1 child as they needed it for French Uni, also he's 18, so can make his own mind up ( and pay for himself Smile )
There are FREE language classes offered by the Office of Integration, and these are mandatory for non EU citizens. My wife attended the first half dozen, but they were poorly run, attempting to cope with 20 people all of different levels, and she felt they were aimed at complete beginners.

...Police checks... Only outstanding warrants right - not stuff that's doe and dusted in the past ?
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Dunno as neither of us have ever had any run-ins with the law. All I know is this:

Vous devez être de bonnes vie et mœurs, ne pas avoir fait l’objet de l’une des condamnations empêchant l’acquisition de la nationalité française.

La condition de bonnes vie et mœurs donne lieu à une enquête préfectorale qui porte notamment sur votre comportement civique (manifesté par le paiement des impôts notamment). Elle peut être complétée par une consultation des organismes consulaires ou sociaux.

Les condamnations pénales prononcées en France et à l’étranger sont vérifiées.
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 And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
@stanton, I'm praying to all the gods that it doesn't. How anyone can look at the situation 15 months on and say it was a good idea is utterly beyond me.
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So if you're just off somewhere snowy come back and post a snow report of your own and we'll all love you very much
Hand Wringer wrote:


La condition de bonnes vie et mœurs donne lieu à une enquête préfectorale qui porte notamment sur votre comportement civique (manifesté par le paiement des impôts notamment). Elle peut être complétée par une consultation des organismes consulaires ou sociaux.

Les condamnations pénales prononcées en France et à l’étranger sont vérifiées.


Seems to say that having the French Tax affairs in order is the main yardstick of being a good citizen.
"pénales prononcées" is quite vague though ...
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 You know it makes sense.
You know it makes sense.
@WindOfChange, realistically, would your record show you not to be of "good moral character" because it involves either recent or serious crime, or are you talking relatively minor transgressions from way back? If in doubt, maybe consult a lawyer to see what they think?
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 Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Hand Wringer wrote:
La condition de bonnes vie et mœurs donne lieu à une enquête préfectorale qui porte notamment sur votre comportement civique (manifesté par le paiement des impôts notamment). Elle peut être complétée par une consultation des organismes consulaires ou sociaux.


The Local Gendarmerie will probably come and talk to your neighbours then come around to your house, check you don't have iPlayer installed on your PC, making jelly in the kitchen, cheddar in the fridge etc Happy. This is before the prefecture visit.

Post prefecture, the interior ministry will go through your dossier and check everything. They have a department, in Nantes I think, that does this. Remember they know a lot of what you tell them already so it is probably to see whether you've lied on the application. Also bear in mind they exchange a lot of tax information with the UK and other EU areas so if you were not on the tax radar before, you will be now. Things like that sneaky BTL you never declared will be flagged up or that ex-wife/husband/nanny you killed and buried under the patio. Happy
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 Poster: A snowHead
Poster: A snowHead
Hand Wringer wrote:
Once you have lived outside the UK for 15 years you lose your vote, so some British expats will want new citizenship irrespective of Brexit.


How can you not be allowed vote on one hand but if your kicked out of the country for some reason where you have been living for 15-30-40 yrs your Home country will have to take you back & look after you , your still a citizen of that country but unable to vote anywhere those people are called Gypsys???
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 Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Hyst wrote:
... Good is also to be married to a EU-citizen that gives you great freedom for work and stay in other EU-countries....

Not necessarily. Marrying a British citizen doesn't automatically grant British citizenship - although you can then apply as a spouse.
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 Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Hmm I live on a sailboat in the Eastern Caribbean. British passport holder.

I wonder if I could get dual French Brit citizenship.
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I think that ecureuil is talking about being able to reside in any EU member state and not just the country that your spouse holds citizenship of. Possibly also the Surinder Singh and McCarthy judgments...
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 Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
I wonder how many of those of us who voted Remain have zero options for obtaining citizenship via another country. I also wonder how many of those who voted Leave can just apply for Irish/Spanish/Italian etc. citizenship and get a second passport.

Snot fair Sad Sad
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@foxtrotzulu, yes, I know someone who voted Leave and is still very pro-Brexit who's getting an Irish passport... it is a subject we have agreed not to discuss!
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Then you can post your own questions or snow reports...
stanton wrote:
Hand Wringer wrote:
Once you have lived outside the UK for 15 years you lose your vote, so some British expats will want new citizenship irrespective of Brexit.


How can you not be allowed vote on one hand but if your kicked out of the country for some reason where you have been living for 15-30-40 yrs your Home country will have to take you back & look after you , your still a citizen of that country but unable to vote anywhere those people are called Gypsys???


You've misunderstood. The second you return to Britain you can vote. You just can't vote after 15 years abroad. It sounds fairly reasonable to me.
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 After all it is free Go on u know u want to!
After all it is free Go on u know u want to!
ecureuil wrote:
Hyst wrote:
... Good is also to be married to a EU-citizen that gives you great freedom for work and stay in other EU-countries....

Not necessarily. Marrying a British citizen doesn't automatically grant British citizenship - although you can then apply as a spouse.


Point is a EU citizen who works in an other EU country can take married partner along and partner can get work permit, because the EU citizen has free movement oof work and that would be restricted if partner could not come along and work. (I know future might be different with UK).
Partner does not need to be EU citizen.
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
davidof wrote:
Hand Wringer wrote:
La condition de bonnes vie et mœurs donne lieu à une enquête préfectorale qui porte notamment sur votre comportement civique (manifesté par le paiement des impôts notamment). Elle peut être complétée par une consultation des organismes consulaires ou sociaux.


The Local Gendarmerie will probably come and talk to your neighbours then come around to your house, check you don't have iPlayer installed on your PC, making jelly in the kitchen, cheddar in the fridge etc Happy. This is before the prefecture visit.


Not sure if they talked to our neighbours (pretty sure they didn't as I noticed the van passing the house & they appeared soon after), but we certainly had a random visit from the gendarmes to check we were good upstanding citizens - things that apparently go down well is being members of / involved with local clubs, associations etc - shows a modicum of integration into local society...

re the prefecture interview, they will tell you at the addcaes (or whatever it is called) in Chambery to learn the contents of the Livret du Citoyen (you will be given a copy and it is also downloadable from the gouv.fr website somewhere). Learn this, inside out and back to front. Lots of questions on this...
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offpisteskiing wrote:

Not sure if they talked to our neighbours (pretty sure they didn't as I noticed the van passing the house & they appeared soon after), but we certainly had a random visit from the gendarmes to check we were good upstanding citizens.


They literally just turned up at your door and nosed about your house?
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 snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
skidipity wrote:
@Hand Wringer, apologies, didn't mean to worry you. Although my comments don't apply to you as you've already done your homework! At the EoSB, I spoke to one of the ski instructors who's a Brit with family, all living in France. They were going through the naturalisation process and I gather it's far from easy or straightforward. Bon chance with it all.

By the way, does anyone know why this topic is posted under The Piste as it doesn't have anything at all to do with skiing? Despite my opinion that the blog is dangerously limited in scope, the topic itself should be moved to a more appropriate place.


And I shared the chalet with someone who grew up in the UK since a child but has to apply for UK citizenship. We all did the mock naturalisation exam and failed miserably.
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 And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
Be warned the UK does notvlook after its Ex Pat community..no matter what they achieved forvtheir country


http://www.edp24.co.uk/news/politics/ex-world-squash-champ-cassie-jackman-refused-permission-to-bring-her-family-back-to-norfolk-from-australia-1-4041822
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 So if you're just off somewhere snowy come back and post a snow report of your own and we'll all love you very much
So if you're just off somewhere snowy come back and post a snow report of your own and we'll all love you very much
Hand Wringer wrote:
offpisteskiing wrote:

Not sure if they talked to our neighbours (pretty sure they didn't as I noticed the van passing the house & they appeared soon after), but we certainly had a random visit from the gendarmes to check we were good upstanding citizens.


They literally just turned up at your door and nosed about your house?


I wouldn't necessarily put it like that, but they came in for a chat to see if we were decent upstanding integrated citizens. I guess there is a certain element of them checking one does actually live where one says one lives and with who one has said one lives etc to prevent false claims etc.
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 You know it makes sense.
You know it makes sense.
GlasgowCyclops wrote:
We all did the mock naturalisation exam and failed miserably.


But that's not surprising to me (as I said I've had many friends go through this process in the UK and they had to learn all sorts of stuff your average Brit wouldn't know). What I did find surprising was just how well my husband and I did on a mock test for French citizenship which we did just for info - I guess he had to learn quite a lot about the country's history and politics for his French degree, but apparently doing the French Revolution in (too much as our teacher was obsessed and writing his own book on the subject at the time) depth at A Level was enough to see me through (will of course study the citizenship revision book when the time comes to sit the actual test).
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 Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
https://www.theguardian.com/world/2017/oct/10/dutch-nationals-living-britain-allowed-dual-citizenship-brexit
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Poster: A snowHead
stanton wrote:
https://www.theguardian.com/world/2017/oct/10/dutch-nationals-living-britain-allowed-dual-citizenship-brexit


Should please the "Dutch" somalis who have pitched up in the UK.

Not so easy for Brits in Belgium

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2017/oct/11/i-dont-think-we-are-a-priority-britons-in-belgium-facing-citizenship-hurdles
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 Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
We've had the gendarmes here a couple of times - once to make my wife change her driving license to French, and once following a plainte I lodged after a hit and run driver knocked me off my motorbike at (ahem) 90 KMH. We have had a few run-ins with the Mayor as he is a liar and a xenophobe. But other than 3 endorsable motoring offences which remain unendorsed ( but the fines are paid), as my license is still UK, I think we are upstanding tax-paying citizens.
A bad driver does not a bad person make - otherwise very few locals would be entitled to citizenship.
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 Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Very interesting thread.

This should probably be a sticky.
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Quote:
Antje Wichmann has been living in France for 25 years and works at the tourist office.

She has been resident in France for 25 years, a territorial official trainee, she is denied French nationality. Antje Wichmann is German, as a couple with a Frenchman, and her son is Franco-German.

By personal choice, she wished to acquire French nationality after learning of a Franco-German agreement facilitating naturalization between the two countries and which benefited Daniel Cohn-Bendit.

She made her request in 2016, because she feels closer to this country than to Germany. Antje worked, she spent ten years at the tourist office of Saintes-Maries-de-la-Mer, founded a company that attracted the attention of Arte, then became a territorial trainee official at the office of tourism of Roquemaure when it was taken over by the Grand Avignon, a mandatory one-year course which should eventually see its tenure in January.

She thought she deserved to become French, but the administration decided otherwise and postponed her request for two years because "examining your professional career, appreciated in its entirety, does not allow you to consider that you have fully realized your insertion professional".

Antje does not understand this decision: "My approach is purely personal and does not bring me any particular advantage. France and Germany are my two countries. In the context of current events, I feel even closer to France, that is why this decision affects me as much. "

Without questioning the decision of the prefecture, her confusion is questionable because who can then claim to acquire French nationality if applications like hers are rejected?


From Google Translate, original articl

http://www.midilibre.fr/2017/10/10/gard-la-nationalite-francaise-refusee-apres-25-ans-de-vie-sur-le-territoire,1572451.php
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@davidof,

I fear that I too have never fully 'realized my insertion professional'.
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Hmmm... yes, that concerns me. I imagine my husband would be fine as he has consistently run our (fully French-registered) business the whole time we've been here but I have taken on teaching work (both in the south of France and in Switzerland) as well as not working due to some study time and can also get a legit doctor's note to explain absence from work for a year, but my working pattern has been quite erratic as a consequence. I have actually always had a small but sufficient income during this time as I rent a flat out in the UK - which I declare to HMRC - and ALL my income has been fully declared and taxed in France (we have French accountants who ensure it's all done properly and to the letter of the law). But I wonder if that will be enough. If that woman didn't get accepted... Confused We are well-integrated with the village (dinner with the mayor and his family at his house etc.) but the "profession" thing may be a stumbling block for me.
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Hand Wringer wrote:
Hmmm... yes, that concerns me.


Note what Simon (offpisteskiing) said though, are you involved in any clubs or associations? That may be more important that a spotless work record.
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After all it is free Go on u know u want to!
davidof wrote:
Hand Wringer wrote:
Hmmm... yes, that concerns me.


Note what Simon (offpisteskiing) said though, are you involved in any clubs or associations? That may be more important that a spotless work record.


Sort of - we are in a very small village (<500) with barely any associations to get involved with but we do pitch in at village events and I'm part of one sporting activity that is run by the local council etc. but it's not really an "association" as such - again my husband is going to be fine on that front, as is an active member of the local velo club, organising the rides, and was VP of the tourist council for 5 years or something... seems it's me who could get loads of personal endorsements from the villagers but who needs to get officially signed up to things. As it sounds like it'll be 20 months+ until the second appointment, I'm hoping getting my name on some stuff now will count.
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https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2017/oct/12/eu-refuses-to-engage-on-rights-of-britons-living-in-europe-after-brexit
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The Gendarmes I had come to my house were moderately unpleasant. They asked to see my payslips and mocked my salary, which is about average for the private sector. I guess civil servants are pretty well paid these days. I won't go into the rest but be prepared for a grilling.
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