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Getting the flex right

 Poster: A snowHead
Poster: A snowHead
@balernoStu, that’s my opinion hehehe
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 Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
balernoStu, also think its a 120 boot, as the strap on my 130s isn't a Velcro one - goes through a cleat instead, and fastens to the back of boot differently. Perhaps I should convert the 3 to an 8 on mine Smile

I do like the fit of them, agree they are pliable when been in the warm, but this just helps putting them on. Hopefully this will prove beneficial as just purchased some zipfits as the liners have packed.
I can see some fun ensuing getting them on Toofy Grin
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 Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
@Bones, are yours the same colours as the 180 pictured above? I found the liner was becoming less comfortable at the heel, then the shell cracked over instep so bought new pair. The later liner seems better so far, as should the zipfits.
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
balernoStu, Yes, yellow sole, white uppers. Liners packed out but boots are generally fine, and have had a bit of a battering Embarassed
Zipfits are very snug Toofy Grin compared to original liners - on reflection I should have just bought them with the boots Smile
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 Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
ok, flex is a number which is not consistent between brands or even models within brands, the salomon Lab that keeps getting talked about is listed as 140 flex, however the race department have got stiffer plastics for the likes of alexis pinturault etc which can be up to as high as 180, they don't have a screen print tool that says 180 as people would want to try and buy it... like many things we get asked fro there is a reason you can't have a 180 flex boot just like Alexis... the reason is simple " you are not Alexis!"

now onto real world flexes, we stock mens boots 100-150 flex, i have been told by a shop that anything above a 100 flex is for racing... WRONG!! shop is not a boot fitters and only sold low end product....

boot manufacturers are great at categorizing skiers (and equipment) into beginner intermediate advanced and expert... how about we flip that into crap, ok, good and great.....we nobody wants a crap pair of boots and probably not many people want an ok pair, which leaves us selling boots for good and great skiers..... or does it? nope! Ski boot flex is really determined by body weight and technique, a big heavy skier who has little experience will still need a stiffer boot to support his body weight, a small petite expert may need a softer boot than that beginner, but they may have something similar in flex as they have good technique so can bend the stiffer boot.

personally it is a bit of a feeling thing but i want to see someone bend the boot in the store as it WILL get stiffer in the cold, you do however have a +/- 1.7m plank on your feet and a bit of momentum to help you bend it when you are skiing... obviously some people like stiffer boots some prefer softer, there are valid reasons for either, example, someone with a limited amount of ankle joint ROM needs a fairly upright stiffer boot so they can use what range they have to apply pressure to the ski, equally someone with lots of ROM (hypermobile) also needs a stiffer boot but with a lower ramp angle and a little more forward lean to try and load there Achilles and still apply pressure to the ski


hope that all makes a little sense... its 18.08 and the last customer of the day is due any time
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You'll need to Register first of course.
@CEM, sorry Colin you are so wrong, the most important thing with boots as anyone who knows, knows is what colour they are. Rubble and brigstock make their money on that ethos.
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 Then you can post your own questions or snow reports...
Then you can post your own questions or snow reports...
@CEM,
well that made every other post on the thread redundant!
very clear
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 After all it is free Go on u know u want to!
After all it is free Go on u know u want to!
@colly10, What this week i'm going through...
So i thought i wasn't getting enough 'spring back' from my boots ( thermo molding shells and @balernoStu, i was doubting their mechanical plastic properties long term, i ski indoors a fair amount), so, bought a pair of Tecnica Mach 1 110 flex low volume (LV). Amazingly these boots are easily 20 flex points stiffer than my Salomons ( umm, my year old Salomons i mean).

Oh, just to say i'm a good skier , weight is 73kg (160 lb), height 1.832m (6')
Anyway, forgetting baseboard ramp angle and cuff forward lean angles ( which do make tangible differences) for a brief moment, i did some measuring of how much my knee's ( two knees acting in unison and NOT a single leg progressively flexing with strong flexing) moving forward under body weight with a small amount of additional knee push - similar to, forward body move from transition into the next turn on a gentle slope. At home, temp was 24c. Ideally i should repeat tests at 0c. It's important to keep these tests repeatable as possible so i maintained as best i could a 50 / 50 heel / ball pressure ( so, pressing over the central foot arch). Anyways, Tecnica 110 ( less a bolt) = 1 3/8'' khm (knee horizontal movement), Salomon Xmax 130 (less a bolt) = 1 3/4''khm. so, Tecnica gives me 3/8'' less forward knee movement (despite being 20 flex points less !) however, due to cuff forward lean angles and position of foot mold position relative to toe / heel lugs so foot position 'on' the boot i mean, the Tecnica boot at khm position (1 3/8''), my knee was 1 1/8'' beyond the toe lug whilst the Salomon, at 1 3/4'' khm was only 7/8'' over the toe lug! So, Tecnica, despite less foward knee movement, put me knees 1/4'' further forward beyond toe lug than the Salomons.


So what did that ski like...well, with Tecnica 110 ( all bolts in) , initially i literally couldn't ski in them for the first 30 mins, when i moved forward, comparatively instantly i was pressing over a foot, say 35cms forward of my ski boots along the skis ( and the boot wasn't properly cold yet either ! ) - geez, it was embarrassing Shocked, usually when i flex my feet they're comfortably 'on the snow' and NOT off the snow! After a couple of hours, a little happier but not a great deal, it was bumpy at Hemel - also, my shins really hurt, bright red sore lines down the central bony ridge - how the hell can these be a 110 flex boot ! Mad These are the softest Mach 1's they do !

So, took a bolt out ( Tecnica flex ~100 ?) and did the measurement tests above...

Around hour 10 in them now and really enjoying the quick ski pressuring response and the spring back force/ response from the cuff. It really has added some fun dynamics into my turns and shins are no longer hurting ( shop said 'go ski' and didn't heat liners which probably was an error in the cuff especially - i had to 'break then in' the hard way! ) but i will have to remove a second bolt ( which Tecnica Mach 1's can officially do without disproportional effects) for moguls.

So what have i learnt ...

1. The shorter the knee travels in a horizontal direction ( stiff boot = short distance. Soft boot = long distance ), under body weight with slight knee flexing pressure ( as typically in 'transition' motions ), the faster response time that pressure is induced / transferred into/onto the ski.
2. Increasing Cuff angles from vertical, subtly inclines you and moves your CoG (center of gravity) towards your toes and ski boot toe lug. So this coupled with stiff boot will very quickly load up pressure on the ski shovel FAST - wow! Shocked
3. Flex ratings vary vastly between makers. Tecnica state very clearly on every ski boot product page, that their flex ratings apply only to their ski boots. NONETHELESS, i wasn't expecting 20 flex points difference between the Xmax's and the Mach1's !
4. I accept i can't judge a boot flex by a manufacturers numbers and nor is the amount of flex in a 'shop environment' representative of the flex amount at 0c let alone -15 / -20c ( none at those temps!)
5. If your old boots is working well but then just wears out, it could be best just to replace it with the same boot !
6. Skiing in new boots = you can't then take them back ( normally, please nobody mention the 'D' word). Compare flex new and old for an indication only of suitability, or measure knee movement accurately - there's nothing to say you can't go stand in a indoor dome to gauge the stiffness at ~0c. Somebody i know just spent £800! at Surefoot last week on boots.£400 to 500 and more is an easy all up spend now and it's very easy to get it wrong and probably impossible to get a 100% perfect fit / function and exactly like skis, the more 'tuned' for a particular aspect eg. high performance carving the less likely it will be a 'good alrounder' ski boot Crying or Very sad

Just some ski flex musings, trials tribulations, angst and anger in getting new boots... Laughing
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