 Poster: A snowHead
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To me, a skiing ignoramus, a binding (alpine) holds yer boot in the same place under all conditions unless acted upon by a force that exceeds the DIN setting. Why pay more for what skiers evidently think are better bindings? What do you get in say, Marker bindings, that you won't in others? With skis, my reading suggests they can be made with properties that ARE very different from type to type. Ta.
CG
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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Marker is a brand of ski bindings, they make a whole range of them aimed at different market segments, other manufacturers do the same.
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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@Charliegolf, could be a couple of things. #1 more sophisticated design meaning better safety, #2 better quality materials so more robust.
Marketing flannel not withstanding.
Have to say I've had problems with pretty much every binding I've had (cheap to mid-range).
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| Layne wrote: |
Have to say I've had problems with pretty much every binding I've had (cheap to mid-range). |
What do you do to them? I don't think I've ever had binding problems with any of the dozen or so, twenty or more including my wife's, skis I've owned over the years.
Actually, I tell a lie, I had several issues with one set, on Fritshi Diamir Titanal bindings that wore out a couple of the stopper blocks, lost their DIN settings and finally came apart at the toe-piece due to a plastic screw in a plastic threaded piece. Not the best design, perhaps OK for touring and light skiing but for their branded use as Freeride bindings they were woefully inadequate.
But other than that one, they've all been as good as gold. Is that down to them usually being relatively high-end models? Not sure. Most of them were just the recommended binding for the ski, and the skis have always tended to be medium-high end, so maybe that's a factor.
For the OP - it's marketing, pretty much. Yes, there are occasionally some technical innovations, and specific features like anti-friction plates that may be needed for certain boot types or fitting adjustable rails/plates on e.g. race skis, but in general I think that any binding with a given maximum DIN setting will be pretty much as good as any other.
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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What about different types of binding and different use cases? Are you only going down the mountain, or do you also want to go up? If going up, do you have tech inserts in your boots, or are you using a standard boot? Do you want your binding to be really light, or do you not care too much? Do you weigh 120kg, or more like 50kg? Do you have knee issues, or have you recently had a reconstruction? Do you want your binding to be easily adjustable or removable for travelling?
Most people probably just need a middle-of-the-road alpine binding, but there are other types available that suit different circumstances better.
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| Chaletbeauroc wrote: |
| Layne wrote: |
Have to say I've had problems with pretty much every binding I've had (cheap to mid-range). |
What do you do to them? |
I don't "do" anything them.
First pair I have had they would just release in the most innocuous situations. Had them checked out and couldn't find anything wrong.
Had problems with the brakes on another (not springing out on release) so ski would fly off.
Had some Fritschi Diamir touring bindings that broke apart.
Another set, the metal base plate snapped - one on each ski on consequent days.
Current pair doesn't clip in properly anymore without some extra push.
To be fair kids and wife never had any problems.
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To be fair, if we ignore touring bindings and are not racing or hucking cliffs then I think there is precious little difference between alpine bindings.
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@jedster, that.
Although (this has been related before) my first ever toe bindings were mild steel plates bent upwards at the side with spikey bits which went through my welly boots into my actual flesh, causing great blood loss, and pain. It is amazing that I ever skied again, testament to my passion.
I think I've owned circa 25 (?) pairs of various bindings and only one has ever caused me a technical problem. (It would be more pairs but I have recycled a few). I've skied on rather more than that.
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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| jedster wrote: |
| To be fair, if we ignore touring bindings and are not racing or hucking cliffs then I think there is precious little difference between alpine bindings. |
Yes, but still... Best heel-piece you imho find on Rossi's Axial (but not for everyone or every use); best toe-piece is Salomon's STH2 and predecessors.
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My favourite was my vists 614, least favourite marker Griffons, but at the end of the day all seamed to do the job they where asked.
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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I have kneebindings to give an extra release direction (from a heel twist) to try and keep what is left of my knees.
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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My favourites on the other hand were Look ZRCs from 1991 but that's only because they were fluo cherry pink and nicely set off my metallic turquoise and silver Rossi 7Ss.
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Over the last 4 decades I've skied all metal race bindings and needed them (80+mph racing downhill), I've worn out sucsessive pairs of Damir touring models, skied many a day on no fall terrain on base model dynafit and hand me down rental bindings.
Outside of very special use cases, a binding is a binding. If it's compatable with your boot it will work as described. I currently work as a ski patroler, where skis are provided. We all ski on basic look rental bindings set according to the din rental chart. We can't adust our own bindings (corparate rulles). No one has a problem with bindings. We haul ass in all snow conditions towing empty sleds. With a casulty on board you are sometimes controlling yourself plus 200kg or more down scraped icy mess and skis don't fall off.
My own skis if not mounted with tech (pin) bindings invariably have Marker F10/12's on them due to versitility.
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You know it makes sense.
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I had problems with Geze bindings pre-releasing, as did others, in about 1981/2. I also had problems with Atomic heel race bindings in about 2005. It's unusual but not unknown.
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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Touring and pin bindings have all their own issues. For Alpine more metal = better for heavy or high dynamic use but DIN is DIN so it's not like in normal usage there will be much difference.
Marker Royal heels are so called because they are a right royal PITA to step into in loose snow.
Some binders have delta +/- which may suit some people better or worse. Which is why you can't entirely rely on Internet reviews as reviewers may have their own biases.
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Poster: A snowHead
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]@Charliegolf[/b], well there ARE differences - even in release despite DIN - and whether they make a difference to safety and performance is a point of discussion. I run markers and salomon and tyrolia. I do notice some of the difference in performance, and of course there are differences in setting toe height, forward pressure etc.
DIN covers the energy point at which release occurs. It does not determine elastic movement prior to release or exact performance of the release envelope in all three dimensions. LOOK turntable bindings have a very different mode of release; marker tend to have very high forward pressure which leads to a very snappy heel piece, etc etc. exactly how the binding performs just prior to release and how it performs just after release in clearing the boot really does vary.
DIN also covers the dimensions of the interface between boot and binding. But for sure some bindings have a mode which chews up boot heels more than others - it’s genuinely noticeable. Engagement error resulting in misaligned boots can and does occur and happens more with some bindings. It depends on the way that the heel binding descends and closes.
A lot of user adjustability also means room for error in setup - sometime a simple act of forgetting to adjust toe height when moving from one pair of boots to another. A five may be showing in the window but an error of setup can mean a release performance off that.
A very annoying habit in some bindings (you know who you are) is icing of the brakes, preventing them from descending. This can happen even with perfectly matched and aligned brakes on some models. Brakes which have a two step movement - up and then in (eg tyrolia) - seem far less prone to this problem.
Weight is an issue which affects performance as is stack or binding rise (overall height of boot platform) - this is noticeable even for non-professionals.
Delta can be different on different bindings (forward lean angle) and that is surprisingly noticeable.
Obviously there is boot sole comparability - grip walk etc - and people are still getting mismatch and not realising it. That really screws up binding release. Genuinely nasty.
Finally, there is the vexed issue of getting into a binding in soft snow, on steeps, and with compacted snow on the bottom of the boot. I have seen people doing all sorts of crazy things to remove compacted snow - in fact a careful scrape on the binding almost always does it, and if not a partner scrapes a lifted boot with a ski pole, carefully without damaging sole plates. But performance in soft snow and on steeps - getting back after a pratfall - is very different with different bindings.
I think that’s it from my perspective re alpine bindings. Some of this is finnicky, and not terribly material, but others are important I think.
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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Sorry to Bump this thread, but its that time of year.
I don't take much notice of bindings as these days I usually rent skis in the resort.
But I had a nasty accident on Wednesday down at the Hemmel Fridge.
I got "taken out" by a snowboarder "losing it" while coming off the roller.
The main injury I have is a "hurty ankle".
I must have put a lot of twisty torque on it.
I'm pretty sure the binding released and I only have them set at DIN 5.
This ankle has history ...I suffered a Potts Fracture in 1966 and its riddled with arthritis, so when things go wrong they go very wrong.
Where this is going is ..
On most bindings I've ever paid attention to,
I can see how the back binding releases verically if you are in a forward fall,
And the front binding will release to the side if there is a twisting motion.
But is there a binding which releases at the heal when there is a twisting motion?
Or is there a binding system which is suited to softy skiers rather than racers?
BTW the snowboarder apologised profusely and these things just happen.
I'm hoping that I'll be able to walk on the ankle in a couple more days.
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
You need to Login to know who's really who.
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Thank you @NickyJ,
I've never come across Kneebinding before, of course I've seen Tyrolia bindings,
But I've not known about "Protector".
I should take more notice.
Maybe one day all bindings will have this feature, even rental ones.
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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| DrLawn wrote: |
Thank you @NickyJ,
I've never come across Kneebinding before, of course I've seen Tyrolia bindings,
But I've not known about "Protector".
I should take more notice.
Maybe one day all bindings will have this feature, even rental ones. |
I bought my knee bindings in 2015, and had been eyeing them for a year or 2 before. I am surprised they haven't become more available and never been aware of that option to rent. Why I will not go back to renting. The Protector's are more recent to market.
My knee bindings do add a noticeable additional weight to my skis (while carrying  ) the Protectors are slightly heavier still looking at the specs
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You'll need to Register first of course.
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Tyrolia has made diagonally releasing heel bindings for nearly 50 years while Salomon has made a diagonally releasing toe for about 45.
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FAQ
