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Snowboard length vs edge length

 Poster: A snowHead
Poster: A snowHead
I've been looking at snowboards with the view to buying a new one this year and starting research early.

When I look at the technical specs, I see that the edge lengths of different boards are not always in the same proportion to the snowboard length.
As an example, the GNU Space Case 156 has and edge length of 116 but looking at the NS Proto T2, which is supposed to be similar, has a 154 with an edge length of 119.

I'd like to go for a shorter board as they are a little bit easier to spin but don't want to lose anything for carving.

Is the length of a snowboard's edge more important than the total length of the snowboard or does surface area count more (I'm not thinking of powder riding here)?
Would the shorter board with longer edge be a better ride (in theory, anyway)?
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 Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
If you always rode your board flat, and if the snow was perfectly flat and firm, there would be no need for any extension beyond the max effective rail length. The board could just stop in a straight line there as it would never touch the snow any further forward at the nose, or further back at the tail.

But the ground isn't flat, snow gets lumpy and can be soft, and we all end up with more weight to one end of the board or the other... so the nose and tail stop it all going horribly wrong. Can you imagine trying to nollie if youhad no upward curve at the front of your board?

So the longer the extension, and larger the area, the more forgiving for uneven surfaces and soft snow/powder a board becomes...

Yes, mass at a greater distance from a rotation point takes more effort to accelerate/decelerate (see the arguments for and against 29er wheels!) but an extra cm of board at either end in the air can't make that much difference.

It's nothing something I've studied in depth, but I'd say that the difference in length of effective edge is much more important when it comes to ease of turning than total board length.

Theoretically, (in perfectly smooth conditions on hard snow, and making sure you didn't catch the nose like an edge) minimising non-contact length on the board would give a small benefit.

But it's effective length (and side cut depth) that describes a carve radius, hence longer boards steadier at speed, but a little harder to turn. Think turning circles on a car. Have you seen a formula 1 car trying to 3 point turn? Have you seen a golf cart trying to stay steady at 80mph? Wheel base and max turning circle make a huge difference and are maximised for different purposes.

That's my two penny worth, based mainly on physics with a little snowboard experience thrown in...
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 Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
To me (with very different requirements) I tend to ignore the specifications (despite my own Physics background) and ride the board.

I want a board which is designed for my weight and ability, because I know that's the most important thing. I'd even use a poorly designed board at the right size over an excellent board at the wrong size. But then I'm fussy about my boards.

Sometimes I'll select a design which is long and thin, others it'll be short and fat. They all work, they just feel different. The most important characteristic is probably the material the board's made of and its resultant flex characteristics, then taper, and the type of sidecut (not only the radius, the type, eg Clothoid ), and then maybe the attention paid to decambering nose and tail. Note that most of these things are actually independent, but for retail reasons it's uncommon to build a short board with a long radius etc.

In summary, selecting the right size board is hugely important at least to me. What precisely that size happens to be is almost completely irrelevant. Within reason I don't find it any harder to turn a longer board than a short one, other than the fact that the longer board is usually going quicker so you have a little less time. The technique is the same.

Advice on spinning probably ought to come from park people not me. I'd doubt minor nominal differences in moment of inertia would make a lot of difference compared to rider technique. For carving, you probably mean "turning". These are flexible easy to ride boards, but they'd be uncomfortable and twitchy at high speed because they're too flexible. Think "butter" not carve.
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
If you want a shorter board that can carve and is still ok for tricks buy a ride warpig you can thank me later.
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 Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
You can overthink this shoite ......

Get on a board that feels right and just ride it .......
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 You'll need to Register first of course.
You'll need to Register first of course.
philwig wrote:
To me (with very different requirements) I tend to ignore the specifications (despite my own Physics background) and ride the board.

I want a board which is designed for my weight and ability, because I know that's the most important thing. I'd even use a poorly designed board at the right size over an excellent board at the wrong size. But then I'm fussy about my boards.

....

In summary, selecting the right size board is hugely important at least to me. What precisely that size happens to be is almost completely irrelevant. Within reason I don't find it any harder to turn a longer board than a short one, other than the fact that the longer board is usually going quicker so you have a little less time. The technique is the same.

...



To expand on this point... and to veer of the subject of the thread a little... (sorry)

I've avoided buying kit as to start with we had a week snowboarding every couple of years. As a 6'5 guy weighing about 95kgs, I've always just had the longest board available in the hire shop, usually a 162, maybe up to 164. February this year I thought it would be busy and emailed ahead to bagsy a long board in advance. One of the staff very kindly brought in an old board of his own for me to use, (Everyone at Conny's Sport in Alpbach were great!), so I spent a week on a 168W Burton Baron. I guess there may have been an upgrade in quality of board, I'm not really sure how much difference there is between that board and the usual hire shop Burton/K2/Rossignol type stuff. But it mainly felt like it was the difference in length, and maybe stiffness, that made the whole thing feel soooo much better. More controlled, more planted, easier to drive... Basically just a much better experience.

We're away at Christmas again, and whilst I can't cough up the cash for top end new kit, I am thinking about either cheaper options or 2nd hand just to avoid going back to a shorter board again... I wasn't sure how much weighting to give the board length for making the difference in my week on the snow, it may have been the board type, or just the fact that I had another week of learning, but I felt the board length was significant. Decathlon have a Wed'ze at a decent length that is well within the "try it and see" budget... I'm kind of tempted, though know little of the brand in comparison with the big names. I know the Decathlon bikes are a damn good buy for 1st mtbs up to intermediate type stuff, don't know if the boards are the same.

Any thoughts?
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 Then you can post your own questions or snow reports...
Then you can post your own questions or snow reports...
Thanks for the physics explanation. Very interesting and, while it's helped me understand, I don't it's helped with the choice. Sounds like a trade off (but maybe not with just a couple of centimetres). It'll be food for thought when it's time to buy, though.

Quote:

For carving, you probably mean "turning"


Er, no. I mean carving, not skidded turns. I get it that many use the term "carving" incorrectly, though. I'm no pro but I can ride a bit. However, as you suspect, I'm not after a board for carving down the steepest of blacks, more of a board that will be good for carving up a pipe wall, eurocarves, revert carves, etc. And yes, it's got to butter nicely, too, so it's not going to be really stiff.

I think demoing would help but trying to find somewhere to demo both of these would be a bit tricky. I've only ever seen NS demos in St Anton, which is not on my agenda this coming winter. There's probably other places, so I'll try and check them out.

Quote:
If you want a shorter board that can carve and is still ok for tricks buy a ride warpig you can thank me later

There's no way I'm getting a Ride board... ah, wait, you may be onto something there - it actually looks like it could do the trick. A bit directional maybe? How does it handle switch? Ollies & nollies? Buttering nose and tail? As it's a fat board, does it shift edge to edge quickly?[/u]
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 After all it is free Go on u know u want to!
After all it is free Go on u know u want to!
DAMMMM! There wuz I thiking my old Anthem would see me through to the screwing the lid down point on my little entropy . . . and along come the Ride Warpig. First time in a long time I have an itch in my pants I want to scratch Twisted Evil



(itch=wallet fer you mucky minds)
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