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Pre-Olympic Ramble (non-sensical)

 Poster: A snowHead
Poster: A snowHead
Every 4 years something wonderful happens if you enjoy winter sports. The Youth of the World gather to demonstrate their athletic abilities against the background of snow-covered mountains and refrains of classical music anthems you know you should be able to name. For forty years I have been a committed fan … waiting for that GREAT British success to happen again.

I owe my fanaticism to the exploits of Messrs Dixon and Nash at Innsbruck (Igls) in 1964 – I can still recall the feeling of pride as the newly-acquired valve-set proudly declared that Britain were winners of the 2-man bob. This, for a wide-eyed 9 yr-old brought up on the exploits of Algie and Biggles was exactly what should be expected of our Boys. They had biffed the World and showed that we were superior. Of course I had an unfair advantage, as a mid-Walian, winter sports terrain looked vaguely familiar, the temperatures a bit warmer than what we were used to but that could only be good. For many years after my mates and I dreamed of success on The Cresta Run or the Hannenkahm, alas mid-Wales seemed to have little opportunity to exorcise our undoubted talents so we settled for Rugby and Girls instead.

Throughout the 70s, 80s and early 90s I craved British success. The sport focused more on the alpine events and the daring-dos of Killy, Stenmark and Klammer. British success seemed imminent as first Bartelski and the ‘The Bells’ threatened to give Britain the honours I craved. Alas the infamy of ‘Eddie The Eagle’ was all we really got and we were repeatedly told by the ski-powers that be that funding was the issue. This seemed logical and not withstanding the occasional success in the irrelevant ‘Ice Ballets’ it seemed that mega-bucks was the only way to go.

I move forward to 2006 and realise that the Winter Olympics are about to start again but things HAVE changed. This team (or at least the federations behind it) have had £3.3m of OUR money allotted to it. This is not insignificant when compared to the cash allocated to the Summer Olympics and also to the funding available to other ‘Olympic countries’. I Expect. It is however at this point that I recognise I am totally out of tune with my national body. They do NOT expect to win more than one medal – and that from the grannies or granddads throwing stones- and a couple of top 10 results would be fine.


Sorry Guys I have news for you.. IT IS NOT Good Enough.

Firstly SACK all the allick-a-doos who pontificate and spend so much in expecting nothing.


So we move on …. US athletes have suggested for some time that British athletes are paid for participating rather than winning – thereby leading to mediocrity. Is this also true of our winter sportsmen and sports women? I look at our team and WONDER who is going to fulfil my dreams of reflected glory?
The Baxters ? Sorry – I can’t see it. Seems to be the same story as the last few years ‘ Things are going brilliantly in training/Bad conditions/Next Time’
Finlay ? We all hope but nothing genuinely suggests he is of the same ilk as the best. The other down hillers --- I hope they enjoy.
Chemmy? Sadly, initial hope seems to be fading. She has said wait until 2010 --- no problem but remember I will have been waiting for nearly 50 years by then. Even better supported than others with her IT sponsorship - why would they be interested – family connections? Rufus do tell.

Our best chances still (as in 1964) still seem to lie with the old ‘Forces’ disciplines where stupidity is still supreme. Luge? Skeleton? Maybe The Bob where at least Lee’s back-flips get good marks!


I write this in hope. I want Team GB to win Gold in a Nordic or Alpine event; I don’t mind spending the money to make it happen. I want to here our National Anthem for a ‘real’ event but I fear that whilst I enjoy the journey, the pot at the end of my rainbow will be empty. Can someone tell me what we have to do to make this happen … and the usual excuses cannot apply. Remember the Austrians thought until recently that Team USA was a joke.
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 Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
I'd say our best outside medal chance is Zoe Gillings in boardercross. Mind you its a bit of a lottery as to whether the best riders saty in or get taken out literally.
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
eEvans, very nice post. Although I'm from the other side of the puddle, I'll be rooting for Team GB as well now, maybe because I'm always attracted to the underdogs Smile
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fatbob, I would have agreed with you but I do wonder if she's fully back from that injury though. The lottery element could be make or break though.
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 Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
eEvans wrote:
Can someone tell me what we have to do to make this happen …

Money.........and interest.We have to face the fact that,in this country,alpine sports are of minority interest.If not to the public,certainly to the youngsters?This country consistantly produces supream atheletes in virtually every other field.Mainstream athletics,football,rugby,cricket.How about rowing and hockey.....the list goes on.There is healthy competition for a place on the team;...........alpine?just a handfull(and only a couple that have any realistic chance of glory,one day,maybe?)
In my view it has nothing to do with athletic ability,we have that in spades.It has everything to do with the availiability,access and funding.No,we don't get the snow.But is that truly insurmountable?Of course not........given the will.We live in a sport crazy country,where an average footballer can change hands for a million or two;but to try and fund future skiers,SnowsportGB runs a raffle Confused
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Why do we need to win medals? We're not an alpine country, and even if we were, why should I care whether someone who was born in the same country as me is better than someone else who was born somewhere else? It leaves me cold (appropriately enough), although some of the events are quite entertaining.
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Well we did win a Gold last time in Curling.
It may not have the glamour that you and I associate with Olympics but you can be sure that for those involved it was a Real Gold.

In terms of why aren't our skiers good enough I have a few observations to make. Friends of mine visit grandparents in Verbier a lot and their kids ski with the ski team there. The son is in the very top echelon for his age in Valais, and that if he were swiss they would be looking at national academy etc.
Sadly he and they know that he will start to fall behind now. They live in the UK, they are not wealthy, the kids are in school, the parents both work. The ski team have said that if they cannot move to the moutains then their son, talented and committed as he is, has no chance of keeping up with the locals who are skiing every weekend and school holiday of the season. Perhaps others could afford to fly out every weekend for training and racing, perhaps others could afford to send him to boarding school in an Alpine country, perhaps others could afford to send him to the specialist GB squad courses that are run a few times a year. Sadly that is not an option in this case.

Talent, determination, fitness will only take you so far as a ski racer. To make it you need a LOT of snow time, and if you don't live in the mountains then you have no real chance.
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rungsp, "if you don't live in the mountains then you have no real chance" - too true.
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fatbob, FenlandSkier, Think it would have to be more of a 'lottery' than it really is for her to overcome 'injuries'. Having watched many of the 'x' events on the box this year, the winners have been consistently the same racers. We can but hope though.
manifest, Thanks , we need your support. Now if you can arrange for Mr Miller to take his teammates and the Austrian, Swiss, French , German, Italian, Norwegian , Swedish, Finnish, Canadian, Kiwi, Spanish and Aussie teams out on the razzle the night before , you can do something really practical for us wink
snowskisnow,
Money - It was reading about the £3.3m funding for Team GB that 'inspired' this. I was surprised at how much was made available for Winter Sports compared to the Summer Olympics and vis-vis other nations (did I read £5.8m for the Austrian team?).
Interest - Not sure how to objectively measure this but if leisure participation is anything to go by then there do seem to be a large number ( and high percentage) of Brits in the Alps during winter months.
Structure - Maybe in organising a raffle SnowsportGB were doing what they are good at ? Twisted Evil I confess last night was the first time I had read their site (consequent to your reference and mysnowsport.com's coverage of the appalling treatment of the freestyle skier), decidedly unimpressed I'm afraid. I quote them 'The quest for funding remains the biggest challenge facing the Snowsport GB' .... urrgghhh NO , their biggest challenge is actually winning something. To agree with you also have to question why they favour an 'elite' as opposed to investing at a lower level to generate the healthy competitive environment which fosters success.
Tennis and Winter Sports - what else do they have in common?
richmond, Not quite sure what your reason for disliking competitive skiing is. Competition itself or patriotism? Most of us are competitive to varying degrees , it is a fundamental behaviour. I think sport is an excellent medium for this competitive nature to be expressed - rather sport than the 20th century pre-occupation with killing one another. Patriotism - I prefer to support my 'team' when it has a similar geography and culture, I do of course (not) understand the need for many to devote their lives to supporting over-paid teams of multi-national footballers financed by Russian or American entrepreneurs on the basis that they are 'British' or 'Local'. Conversely you may prefer that the (necessary) sporting structures are created on other groupings :- Language? Religion ? ... Urrrgghhhh NO , don't think I'll go there.
rungsp, Yes , Curling ( that was my reference to the aged throwing stones) looks like a fair chance of success. Unfortunately for me it has the same degree of sporting importance as May-Pole dancing would if that was introduced to the Summer Olympics. Point taken on the need for access to the right 'environment' for sporting excellence but are there no winter sports success stories from outside the mountains? I didn't think all recent US team members are 'mountain-folk'.

Beginning to whether the structure may have something to do with it .. not proven; anyone want to comment on the relative differences between how competitive winter sports are administered in the UK compared with successful alpine countries or even the US ? I haven't a clue.
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I understand your points, Mr Evans, and they are beautifully expressed but I'm personally not at all bothered about winning medals. I cannot help but think that such an emphasis has more to do with national chauvinism and virilty rather than sport itself.

For what it's worth, the only time I've been bothered by the Olympics was when Baxter got his 'medal'-a fantastic reward for a great guy.
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Thank you for your kind comments Mr McClean . You may of course address me as 'Sir' if you wish. IMO , The Olympics form their own focus , only being every 4th year they have a rarity value which creates their own aura regardless of patriotic or macho tendencies.

Interestingly yours is the third post which declares 'No effing interest' in the sporting / competitive element . Perhaps it's time to divert the lottery monies to the UK crochet bodies. Sad
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
kevin mcclean wrote:
I understand your points, Mr Evans, and they are beautifully expressed but I'm personally not at all bothered about winning medals. I cannot help but think that such an emphasis has more to do with national chauvinism and virilty rather than sport itself.


Hear, hear. It's about taking part at the level you choose, and doing your best, not winning (I'm crap at sports, as you will have guessed).
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richmond wrote:
Hear, hear. It's about taking part at the level you choose, and doing your best, not winning

Oh no Shocked Please dont say this thread is about to be taken over by wishy washy evangelical tree huggers wink My little dahlings dont do competitive,they may end up traumatised wink Laughing
Man is competitive,esp kids.Give them a field,a ball,and two ends and then try to convince me otherwise rolling eyes
Sure,not all are good.Many,like me,are crap at sport.But we are discussing the very heights of the sport,where people of ability should be able to compete,and have a chance to prove themselves.Its important to them,and this country should support them.We have the sportsmen,so I can only assume its the structure thats wrong.We manage a decent showing in many sporting fields,so why not alpine Confused Are the governing bodies suffering from 'institutional negativity'?
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You know it makes sense.
snowskisnow, what a load of knee jerk, ignorant b*llocks. I haven't suggested for a nanosecond that people shouldn't compete hard, you tosser. What I said was that winning per se is not important and that I don't care which country the winner is from, and that taking part is important, which is just as well, since most people are not going to win. What the bloody hell has competitiveness got to do with nationalism?

It's crap like you've come out with that gives competitive sport a bad name; if you're not going to win, don't bloody bother. Makes me throw up. No wonder we're becoming a nation of losers.
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 Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
richmond, Nice,well constructed response wink However...........
I believe we are discussing the British success,or lack of it,in the alpine events.Winning is important,try suggesting otherwise to the likes of Miller and Maier.And I cant recall suggesting(even for a nanosecond)that if you're not going to win,dont bother.As I have already said,its important(to me at least)that we support our athletes,give them the chance to compete and improve.What chance do we have when we pin all our hopes on one or two people.And again,I'm sure we have the sportsmen/women but are they being nurtured?In this global world,the old cry of 'we're not an alpine nation' is getting a bit stale.A nation of losers?bit harsh maybe.A nation of doubters,quite possibly?
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 Poster: A snowHead
Poster: A snowHead
It's interesting, this talk of 3.3 million for Team GB. I l know of one of the snowboarders who is many thousands of pounds in debt after their efforts to reach the Olympics. It's certainly not a gravy train of any kind, and no British athletes are 'paid' to attend.

They're all people who are willing to lay it on the line in their efforts to represent the UK and should be applauded for their efforts.

Let's not forget that we truly DON'T have mountain facilities in this country (no disrespect to the Scottish resorts), but the fact that we have forty athletes attending in spite of the investment, not due to it, is something worth praising.

British snowsports has spent the last two decades trying to erase the devastating damage Eddie the Eagle caused and it's still going to be a long road ahead.

Zoe Gillings can do it - that girl is a machine.
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 Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
snowskisnow wrote:
richmond, Nice,well constructed response wink


Thanks, I was pleased with it. I'd though I'd inject a bit of competitive spirit.


Last edited by Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person on Fri 10-02-06 10:10; edited 1 time in total
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 Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Quote:
British snowsports has spent the last two decades trying to erase the devastating damage Eddie the Eagle caused and it's still going to be a long road ahead.
Heard that one often enough. It's certainly been useful as an excuse in some quarters! All Eddy's fault, eh? I don't think so. Far more to it, for those in the know about what has been going on behind the scenes! The real culprits are lack of communication and funding, combining with the jobsworths clinging on to their posts, all of which has resulted in a long delay before much needed modernisation of the sport and its infrastructures took place (and remain a helluva long way from completion!). Blame an individual sportsman if you like, but with or without Eddy nothing much would have changed.
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This thread hasn't resulted in the areas of discussion I expected but - then again - probably par for the course !
Fall Line Editor wrote:
It's interesting, this talk of 3.3 million for Team GB. I l know of one of the snowboarders who is many thousands of pounds in debt after their efforts to reach the Olympics. It's certainly not a gravy train of any kind, and no British athletes are 'paid' to attend.

No dispute that many athletes all over the world have invested heavily in striving to get to the Olympics (we could ask Kwame) that is not unique to British athletes. I respect them all for their efforts and dedication.

My point on the monies being awarded was that 'The Elite' are 'paid' based upon participation rather than results gained. This contrasts with the calculations made for allocations of 'lottery' monies which are based (in part) upon results I believe. My suggestion would be to include elements of reward to individuals for success .

Quote:
Let's not forget that we truly DON'T have mountain facilities in this country

I'm afraid I can not accept that is a MAJOR factor. To take that to its logical conclusion ( and if we believe it why shouldn't funding bodies) then don't give any public monies to 'sports' at which we can not participate competitively.
Quote:
but the fact that we have forty athletes attending in spite of the investment, not due to it, is something worth praising.

I think the funding is important ! I suspect many competitors would not be there without the funding! BTW - Not sure why you need 'Mountain facilities' for 1/2 of those participants - skating, curling and I'm not sure how to classify the 'tube sliders"!

Anyway, as of today we can suspend the doom and gloom and look forward to some good competition .. and I hope we win some medals !
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The lack of British success is certainly not 'all Eddy's fault', but you ask the average person to name a British winter Olympian and he'll be the most popular answer by far. He made British wintersports a joke, no argument. Of course, the behind the scenes stuff is by far the biggest hindrance and while we have no decent investment then we can't be too surprised by lacklustre performances.

If we awarded money based purely on results, then you'd never get any Alpine british Olympians. We have plenty of facilities for skaters and curlers (virtually every major town has an ice rink of some kind), but the simple fact is it costs a fortune to participate in Alpine sports - just think about how much your last holiday cost.

I'm sorry, but lack of mountains IS a major reason that we are not as strong in the Alpine disciplines as we'd like to be. You go to any mountain town and the local kids ski clubs are simply miles ahead of their UK equivalents, purely becasue they get to train every day.

But anyway... COme on the UK team! I'll be shouting at my television with best of them!
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Fall Line Editor, yes some truth there for sure, although the reason why Eddy competed under those conditions in the first place was in part due to the lack of support and training facilities. Who knows what he might have achieved wink

Other countries admire the efforts of their sportsmen competing against the odds. Personally I reckon most people would be laughing on the other side of their faces if they had to stand at the top of an Olympic ski jump and launch themselves into space! He's no laughing stock as far as I'm concerned...

As for funding, the difficulties faced in getting enough time on snow, I refer you to this initiative:

Budding Champions!

And this corresponding thread, in particular my last post, dated yesterday Confused
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Fall Line Editor, PG, When I started this thread I had no idea as to why our performances were expected to be 'poor' for the relative financial input (that is my subjective judgment and no more than that). Since then I have had the opportunity to read up on the efforts of Snowsport GB and follow some of the latest developments as discussed on Mysnowsports.com.

I have to say I am incredulous at some of the stuff going on in that operation - some of the activity would appear to have more to do with 'old-hat' civil service ethos and responsibility avoidance rather than the development of Winter Sporting achievements.

Not for this thread, but definitely for a later date , questions as to why our aspiring sportsfolk seem so poorly served by those charged with administering available resources.
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I heard the head of the GB team on the radio playing down expectations and saying we shouldn't expect medals, despite the lottery funding. Like eEvans, it struck a really sour note for me. Being irrationally hopeful before a sporting event is part of what makes watching sport fun. I'm sure this guy does a great job yada yada, but it came across as if his main priority was damage limitation and ensuring funding was not cut for future Olympics...
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Firstly, the Olympics is fairly boring to watch. I do not consider it be a prime spectator sport.

Even when you had Coe, Ovett and Cram as top class middle distance runners I was not interested. My attention span is limited to 400 metres and even then I would be happy enough with the edited highlights.

I saw that Kelly Holmes a few months ago signing books. Well done, but I am not interested. So she lives in the same country as me, so what ?

It is even worse for the Winter Olympics. Skiing is boring to watch unless you are watching an instructional video, or your own performance.

Ice dancing with Torvill and Dean was, for reasons which escape me, incredibly popular. In my view, it is iredeemably naff.

It is true if you wanted medals you would give all the money to ice rink sports.

I do happen to like the ice hockey. That is always very watchable. A good old tear up interrupted by bits of skating. Unfortunately, with the professional leagues in North America and the high standards of the Russians and Czechs, our medal chances are similar to the chances Colchester winning the Cup Final.

I also watched the curling. The only reason for that is that I had tried it in Wengen. I was amazed that I did not fall on the ice and I wanted to see how the experts played the game.

I do like Eddie the Eagle and I don't like people slagging him off. He was a character and a chancer. Good luck to the bloke.

eevans It is time to put away the Biggles books. There was also a fictional character called Alf Tupper-'the tough of the track'. He was a middle distance runner who overcame class prejudice by toffee-nosed upper crust types ( who were probably skiers in those days) to triumph on the track. His diet was fish and chips and lard and he kipped down on a sack in the kitchen. A nice story, but, now that I am an adult, I realise sporting success would require a bit more - regardless of the underlying talent.

I hope you do not display the same traits as regards Welsh rugby.

Coming back to The Smoke from Coventry last Friday, there was a couple, on a very crowded train, deliberately speaking Welsh in loud voices. Next to them were an equally loud Brummie couple complaining about the two speaking Welsh. Sometimes I think these things are sent to try me, but I managed to rise above it, as it was a Friday.

No comment on the result from me, other than to say at least that annoying c*** Max Boyce won't be crawling out of the woodwork again. He deserves to be clubbed to death with a cosh disguised as a leek.
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