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Marker dukes to Kingpin

 Poster: A snowHead
Poster: A snowHead
Hi all, just wondering if someone can help with a technical question.

I have the Marker Dukes EPF 16 currently, but they need upgrading (and they're super heavy!) - They are currently mounted using quiver killers. I would like to move to Kingpins but I am wondering if there will be conflict with the hole pattern as I want to use the same ski I currently have. I will leave the existing Quiverkillers in place and hopefully install new ones for the kingpin - does anyone know if this is possible. if there is mounting conflict the other option is to go for the Dynafit Beasts, but equally not sure about conflict there. Mondo 30.5 boots size if that impact anything?
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 Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
My best advice would be to give Jon a call at the Piste Office, he will find you a solution one way or another
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 Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
I had a similar question about replacing my marker schizo bindings with a tech binding. There are some verified templates here https://www.tetongravity.com/forums/showthread.php/153971-Binding-Mount-Paper-Templates, and others on the internet that may not be reliable, that you can print to scale to investigate. But as noted above, Jon sorted me out as there was, indeed, some interference. Usually you can move the binding 1cm forward or back though.
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@BenAS, definately ask Jon as mentioned above, I'm sure he will have done exactly this for someone already. Google the Piste Office and you will get his telp number, or PM him on this forum. Be aware that he may take a short while to respond as I'm pretty sure he's not open for the next few days.
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 Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
@BenAS, I'm away catching some rays until Tuesday so can't check properly with the respective jigs until I'm back.

However the Kingpin toes are very likely to clash with that of your Dukes. To check properly I need to know the following info:

- small or large size Dukes?
- the boot sole length in mm that your Dukes were mounted for?
- the boot sole length in mm that your proposed tech bindings are to be mounted for (if different to the above)?
- the make/model of your tech boots?
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hi Jon, amazing.

to answer your questions. (in fact I bought the bindings form your good self back in 2014 (along with 4 pairs of whotedots)... moved to NZ now and still on Whitedots, although just upgraded my preacher to the carbonlite version mounted with 22 design Outlaws (telemark) the king pins are for the redeemers.

Dukes are large
Mounted for 331mm boots sole length
Kingpin will use same boots
Scarpa maestrale rs (2015)

One of the reasons for the binding swap is that the Dukes have worn down the top of the rear lug on the boot a bit and I think a new binding would move the point of contact. I think the wear came for the binding being set a fraction too large, that and I trying to drop weight for the uphill! I don't think it serious now the bindings have been fitted properly, but it's always on my mind!

Enjoy the sun. I'm sat by the fire waiting for the season to properly start down here!
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 Then you can post your own questions or snow reports...
Then you can post your own questions or snow reports...
Beasts may be a better option if they don't clash as they don't use the top of the rear lug to index.......
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 After all it is free Go on u know u want to!
After all it is free Go on u know u want to!
@KenX, if there's any left... Dynafit have discontinued the Beast and Jon was already selling off the last of them at the start of this year.
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
dp wrote:
@KenX, if there's any left... Dynafit have discontinued the Beast and Jon was already selling off the last of them at the start of this year.

I still have a special stash available to a select few wink
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Ski the Net with snowHeads
@spyderjon remember the special stash includes the ones I already bought so don't go selling mine twice!!
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KenX wrote:
Beasts may be a better option if they don't clash as they don't use the top of the rear lug to index.......


This was something that i was thinking about, but from what I have read the Kingpins ski better (but I think that's probably skier opinion rather than fact!). I'm not adverse to the Beasts at all - to be far it probably comes down to; mounting pattern, then cost!

Another question for you all to ponder - skiing either Kingpin or Beasts in NTN Telemark boots.... (they have tech inserts) I understand there is a need for a "puck" under the foot to stop the boot from flexing and releasing - Now I think about it the need for a puck under the foot may preclude the Kingpin because of the "lever" - but then again maybe the lever might act as a puck??... but hypothetically - is this a good/bad idea.

This video suggests it is possible, but i was wondering what you guys think??


http://youtube.com/v/Fp-C8j_um6A


Ben.
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 And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
The Beast skis better IMO but it's close.

Beast 14 is far more durable but as it's on close-out that has a bearing.

You're right that mounting locations will likely determine your choice.

Re NTN boots in tech bindings:

You can't fit a bellows block to the Beast or Rad 2 bindings due to sole drag from the rotary toe. So in theory you need a fixed in line toe.

The Kingpins skii/tour lever is too low/far back to be used as a bellows block. The Scarpa factory bellows block is designed to slot in to a Dynafit style crampon slot meaning it will fit the Kingpin as well.

However, the latest Scarpa NTN/tech boots have only have a tech toe and no tech fitting on the heel. There's a reason for this which is even with a fixed in line toe the drag from the bellows block severely affects the lateral release at the heel to the extent that Dynafit/Scarpa will no longer support it's use. The tech inserts in the toe are designed for the latest breed of freeride tele touring bindings like the Meidjo 2 from M Equipment.

I've not torque tested an NTN/tech set-up so I can't comment first hand but the fact that Dynafit are quite happy to produce a number of non DIN compliant non adjustable release AT bindings but won't support the use of a bellows block leads me think that it's a sketchy solution that should be avoided.
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 So if you're just off somewhere snowy come back and post a snow report of your own and we'll all love you very much
So if you're just off somewhere snowy come back and post a snow report of your own and we'll all love you very much
I think I was thinking the same thing. Seems like it might be easier to stick with the two set ups - although it might be easier still to get better at telemarking so I can just do that 100% of the time! I'm off to Japan for 3 weeks next year and I'm not sure my powder tele skiing is good enough to make the most of it - so I'll be taking my alpine set up as well.

Looks like I should just pack light and see if I can get 2 pairs of skis two boots and backcountry kit plus a few clothes for less than 20Kg plus hand luggage (thankfully I have 12kgs of cabin weight on Korean Air)... the weight is made more tricky by the fact I'm 6'4" with 190cm skis and mondo 30 boots!
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 You know it makes sense.
You know it makes sense.
BenAS, I've done some measuring for you to compare the mounting locations of your existing Dukes to all the freeride touring tech bindings that are available.

The following all conflict with your Duke mount: Kingpin, Beast 14 & Radical 2 ST/FT.

However there's three tech binding options that will work as a dual QK mount alongside your Dukes:

1. The Dynafit Beast 16 which drops in perfectly. Toe/heel weight is 935g.
2. The Dynafit Beast 14 Test version which has a length adjustable toe which would allow for the toe to be mounted 20mm forward/clear
the Duke toe holes but then the upper unit is slid back on its lower track to the correct position on the ski. The Test toe is
absolutely solid/bomber with zero play & it doesn't add any height to the toe & it uses the standard Beast heel. Toe/heel weight
is 910g. I sell a lot of these bindings as it's ideal for these situations which I come across a lot.
3. The Marker Kingpin 10 Demo version which also has a sliding toe, however the upper toe has some play on it's lower rail & the
rail adds quite a bit of height which in turn means that the heel is raised on a plate to match. Toe/heel weight is 910g. I sell a
few of these bindings as while its ideal for these situations its height & toe mechanism go against it. Plus it's only available in the
10 din version & not the 13 din.

Here's a pic of the three working options:
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 Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Jon - you are a true gent!

Does the toe piece of the beast 16 fit in to my existing Duke inserts, that would be ace (I can't quite see from the photo, but I think this is what you're saying)- this would allow me to also mount my tele bindings in the future as they only require two central screws for the heel piece, but I'm getting ahead of myself!

EDIT (looking again at the photo it looks like the 14 and 16 will use the same mounting pattern on the toe which is different from the duke, so new holes will be required for either beast)

The King pin 10 is not going to work as I ski at DIN 9- 11 (depending on situation), and I understand you should always has a few "DIN's" spare over your setting and riding with the spring maxed out is not a great idea, although I am cranking up the DIN less than I used to!

So it looks like either the Beast 14 Test will be the winner in terms of mounting, cost and weight. Do you have these, if so how much to get a pair sent over to New Zealand! My concern is cost and also the lack of a flat touring option, but I can probably over come that.

Let me know if you can help and I will look at finances!!

B


Last edited by Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name: on Wed 28-06-17 22:49; edited 1 time in total
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 Poster: A snowHead
Poster: A snowHead
No, you need new inserts for the Beast 16 toe - the green dots on the pic - whereas the Duke locations are black. If you save the pic you'll be able to expand it on your 'puder.

I've got both the 16 & the 14 Test in stock. The 14 would be my choice as the toe is far better than the 16 toe plus the 14's toe mounting pattern is the same as the Radical 2 so will be around for a long while so better future proofing.

I'll get back to you with a price to NZ.
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 Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Awesome thanks Jon. I think the 14 is the way to go, the 16 seems overkill for me.
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 Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
@BenAS, I've sent you a PM.
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