Another 'which board?' thread - want to improve on fast carving and off piste type stuff

A snowHead

It's become a long post so feel free to skip to the last paragraph for the TLDR version....

So I've had 3 weeks on my first owned board, bought used off ebay... A 2012 Capita BSOD 162, I think I've figured out what I like in a board and will soon be ready to upgrade to that elusive "perfect board" - I'm not sure if it'll be this season or just sometime before the next, but it's in my future and I'm starting to think about it more and more lately. The problem is finding something that suits, so I thought I'd ask the hive mind if they've any suggestions.

Bearing in mind the BSOD is my first non-rental board so my experience is limited - It strikes me as fairly stable at speed, nice to get a light carve on, forgiving enough for me to dick about a little including occasional slower speed switch attempts and baby's first butters and presses, and I quite enjoy the camber in the middle and a little upturned rocker at each end thing it's got going on. However, since making some progress with my riding on the pre and BB weeks (it's amazing what following someone far better than yourself can do), I find myself wanting something longer (no tankerdriver, not THAT long), faster, more aggressive and solid, and wider as I find myself washing out with boot when I really tried to get my lean on in carves. I'd like a board that I can keep progressing on and grow into, I'd rather jump in the deep end and learn to swim or die trying. I'm not the sort to buy a new board every season or two, it'll be more money than I can justify considering I actually quite like my BSOD, so the new board is going to have to last me a while. One thing I know for sure from my time renting, rocker boards are not my thing at all.

About me: 6 foot 2or3 ish, 13.5 stone, 35 years old (too old for big jumps and falling over all the time in parks) size 10uk boot. I've just bought some nice stiff bindings to replace the more flexy FS type first bindings I've been using up to now. Stance is +15 front, -12 rear, back one set of holes from the middle, but I'm ok with experimenting with that. I reckon I'm big enough to be able to manhandle a meaty board and muscle it about a bit if needed.

How I ride: I'm decent enough but no master, can keep up with most but there's a lot more to learn. I feel best when going pretty quick, carving turns, riding in that sweet spot a little down from the top of my comfort zone. I love the feel of bouncing in and out of carves, long and short. I occasionally play about with some light butters and switch crap, small jumps here and there, but that's a low priority. So long as the new board doesn't fling me straight into the sun if I happen to flip it round to switch I'm happy. The majority of the runs that leave me with a huge grin on my face are quick and flowing carvey leaned jobbies. I'm perfectly happy keeping the BSOD with my old flexy bindings if I fancy a more forgiving mellow ride, so no need for a do-it-all board.

Where I'm lacking: Hard packed scraped and icy stuff really isn't my forte, I can usually whip down the side of stuff like that on the sprayed edge-of-piste snow making quick little turns but it's not where I shine. I can carve a turn but reach a lean point where i just wash out, especially on harder snow on the heel edge (lack of skill and edge grip), while in better snow it's often just plain old boot drag that puts me on my ass. Off piste in deeper stuff I often struggle to keep the nose up (I can manage it, but my god the back leg burns by the bottom). As I'm more or less a directional guy I quite fancy something that'll assist my float riding the direction god intended in deeper stuff. Switch, I'm pretty crap, but meh, I think I just need practice there.

How I'd like to ride moving forward: More carving. I know i'm not likely to be face dragging in turns like those odd folk in those strange hard boots but I'd like to get leaned over as much as possible without boot drag and push turns harder in the future. Possibly learn more switch stuff just for the variety of it, but again that's a low priority in the new board. I'd also really like to get get more into off piste powder type stuff when conditions allow.

I've been having a look at a few things, the Capita Warpspeed seems like it'd be a stiffer wider longer (in 167 form) version of my BSOD, with a similar base shape. Stuff like the Ride Timeless looks interesting, camber all the way back, with some rocker raise at the tip, nice and wide in its longest version. It's a minefield though. So much marketing bull. Every board is apparently the absolute best thing ever loaded with carbon-nano-positronic-ultracore-megapop-danglewang tech, it's hard to know what's actually what.

Budget, well as little as I can get away with for a proper decent board I guess (surprise surprise). I'm happy spending up to £400, more and I'd have to work a little harder to justify it as truly the right board for many many seasons to come.

So to sum up: I'm after a big-ass fast aggressive directional board that can get a real good leaned carve on with, camber where it counts but I think I'd appreciate a little tip (and maybe tail) rocker, a little set-back, and something that will serve me well and keep me afloat as I (hopefully) improve with off piste stuff. Any suggestions of stuff I should be looking at?

A snowHead

You need two boards.

The carving board needs to be a stiff cambered thing. The powder board needs to be wide nosed and rockered with a bit of flex front and back.

A long and wide camber board with ICS will let you quickly put on some 'set back', which will help lots when off the sides. But really, rocker boards don't carve well (if at all if they are bendy) and camber boards (in realistic sizes) don't float too well.

Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?

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probably not what you want to hear but the board you have is about right.

changing your board to a something like a super stiff coal race with bent metal bindings will set you back more than you care to consider.

even the capita warpspeed with 3 weeks on the hill will most likely kick your ass.

maybe consider spending the money on good tuition rather than hardware, people like james sweet, lewis sonvico, neil mcnair, neil mcnabb or paul mckeen will transform your riding in a week more than a stiffer board ever will Smile

Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.

I'm running around on a 2yo Jones Flagship and boards of it's ilk really respond to aggressive riding - but it'll happily hand you your back bottom to wear as a hat if you don't keep on top of it.

See you're coming to the ESOB - I'll lend it to you for a few laps if you like.

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I'm seeing fewer reverse camber powder boards these days. From stuff I rode this year, Both Capita's Spring Break powder & Charlie Slasher are flat. Burton's Skip Jack, Branch Manager, Landlord and even the Flight Attendant are all cambered, albeit with a decambered nose. I quite liked the Joystick, but other than that, reverse camber is a bit yesterday's news for powder. I'd not consider it based on the OP.

As they say, you can't get one board which will be both better in powder and better on piste.

Any dedicated powder board is going to have taper, a stance set-back by default, a tail designed to be steerable and to support breaking, and it'll be wide enough so you can balance on it. A piste board isn't going to have those things, but mostly it'll be significantly stiffer to cope with the loads you're going to put on it. It'll feel like a plank in powder.

If it was me... I suppose I'd buy a more aggressive piste board, then rent powder boards as and when the over-the-head powder arrives. Strangely enough, that's actually what I do. I travel with a slalom board which works anywhere on piste and is ride-able in resort powder. If I'm in the back country I borrow powder boards.

I would try a few boards, try other manufacturers too, and see if anything lights your fire. As above, I think reverse-camber is terribly old fashioned. This year's fashion is weird shapes, which are actually probably more about powder pose value than anything else. The Spring Break looks funky but rides like a normal shaped board: the shape is not that important for those boards.

Then you can post your own questions or snow reports...

Capita BSOD sounds absolutely fine for what you're doing - I'm with eddie in that it sounds to me that you want to look at your technique. How long have you been riding, and what kind of training have you done?

One thing that might be a quick fix for icier, steeper stuff - when was the last time you did the edges? And are they being done well?

After all it is free

I agree with the above. A 2012 BSOD should be fine for what you're doing. You might want to think about lessons. But, if you're looking for suggestions to splash the cash, here is my list (in no particular order):

1. Nitro Mountain;
2. Jones Flagship;
3. Rossi magtec xv;
4. Dupraz D1;
5. Douk Duke;
6. Yes. Pick Your Line; and
7. Never Summer The Chairman.

For more aggressive piste boards look at the Swoard Dual, Donek/Coiler etc.

Thanks for the posts… It’s useful info and lots of stuff to think on - lists of boards are a great place to start browsing too, much appreciated.

I wrote a reply at lunch time but goosed it up closing the window accidentally - As it pains me to re-type a long rambling post I’ll keep this one short and to the point, if i’m capable of such a thing. EDIT: It turns out I'm not.

—— I’ve had 5 weeks on the snow in the last few years, and a few weeks around ages 18 to 25 with a skint phase in between (I’m now 35). I came from skiing regularly as a kid who was lucky enough to live near mountains, and at 18 ish I swapped to a board. I’ve never had any lessons or anything, I just watched people who were better than me and copied them. “Pretend you can snowboard and soon enough you can”. Nowadays I’m decent enough that I’m always having fun and what time I can get in resorts is precious enough that it never feels like the right time to do anything other than blast about having a great time doing whatever takes my fancy that day…That said, early on this last couple week trip (pre and BB weeks) I followed someone far better than me and learned more in one day copying them than all my recent trips put together, so I can certainly see the value in learning from those who know (hopefully on the End of Season Bash at the very least I can find some good people to follow).

However, it’s the improvements I’ve made in the last couple weeks on snow that have led to me wanting something longer (more edge), and wider (more surface area under me in fresh snow and less boot/binding overhang). I must confess I do like my BSOD, it’s taught me a lot, and the fact that sitting here at home waiting for my next trip the only progress I can make is in the mind and in the equipment (via the wallet) probably plays a part too. Perhaps stance adjustment might eliminate the heel/toe drag (it’s my back foot that seems the worst culprit) and work on technique to take care of the rest? As the time since the last trip gets longer and longer I’m finding it harder and harder to form a mental picture of thing which doesn’t help… I’m starting to think out loud here… I’ll stop rambling and move on…

—— Edges, yep, I had ‘em sharpened on the last trip after noticing they felt weak - huge improvement. I’ve now got myself some basic edge tools and a strong desire to keep ‘em sharp all the time from now on.

—— Two boards - But… But… That magic one board to rule them all that every board company claims to make? Give money, receive perfection and technique? But… But.. No, wait…

Seriously though, I don’t reckon I’ll be dong either on or off piste extreme enough to the point where I’d be able to justify the cost and bother of two boards - I spend most of my time on piste with occasional dabbles off, so on piste is more of a priority, and so long as I’m on something that can enjoy powder when it happens (rather than excel at it) I’ll be happy. Where I regularly get a grin on is fast sweeping runs on soft smooth pistes though.

—— Rocker: the one thing I learned about board design in my days playing the rental lottery is rocker underfoot is not my thing. I get on well with the little bit at either end of the BSOD, but a decent bit of camber under the feet is a minimum requirement.

—— Boards that will kick my ass - that’s a not a bad thing. I’m one of those people who only truly learn through the consequences of cock-ups and something that forces me to get my act together or suffer is likely to teach me a lot, and fast.

@Richard_Sideways, That’d be very very very much appreciated… I really need to try a few different things I think, and a go on that would double my experience of non-rental boards! I’ll search you out on the EOSB, thanks:)

*Ski* the Net with snowHeads

Does it need to be directional?

Capita DOA sounds like it would fit well. Or the Ride Helix.

Pretty stiff boards for piste carving.

For powder riding maybe the Jones Mountain Twin or Capita Mercury would also be two of the best all mountain carvers.

Why not try something like the K2 Carve Air? Different style of board.

snowHeads are a friendly bunch.

@jjams82, have you asked what board @Harpomatic was riding in Alleghe? That thing could clearly be carved! From what I remember it was directional with rockered ends so probably not useless in the soft stuff either. However that does sound similar to what you are already riding.

Alos, if you're not that fussed by switch, perhaps experiment with rotating that back foot forward for carving.

snow reports

Buying a board designed to be aggressive in the first place, then getting a 167 wide version which will up the stiffness again, in some decks considerably, is a pretty big thing to commit to without riding it first. In most cases your 13.5 stone frame will need to be solid ripped muscle to have a chance taming a board like that.

Don't mean to be patronising, you might be fine but I'd definitely have a shot of one first (cause you'll probably struggle to sell it if you don't like it!)

Capita DOA is probably too freestyle oriented for the OP's needs, Mercury is similar profile but stiffer. Based on the type of riding mentioned my suggestion would have been the BSOD - apparently next year's model is somewhat beefier than this year's. Directional > Twin for carving.

You know it makes sense.

Hey Leggy... I assume you mean (grandmaster) Flavio? I had a quick peek at it, seemed to be one of those funny Burton* W-shaped things -rocker/camber/rocker/camber/rocker- with forward angles on both bindings - he certainly could get a carve on with it eh! Trying to keep up with him was dam hard but quite the learning experience. I was wondering last night about forward angle on the back foot and a little more on the front, standing on my board different ways and imagining it... It feels very odd indeed, but would indeed get those toes/heels out of the way. I might have to try it for a day on the EoSB. I suspect that my sticking with +15/-12 isn't going to do anything for avoiding the toe/heel drag but I do feel very comfortable with it (possibly as it's the only angles I've ever used).

*I've a bit of a beef with proprietary systems that force you into one brand, so have sort of been ignoring Burton and their fetish for that odd channel thing.

Mrwayne - I don't suppose it absolutely has to be directional, I just assumed (perhaps incorrectly?) that a directional board is more likely to fit my requirements... Ta for the suggestions btw. The K2 Carve Air is an odd little thing eh. I can't help thinking it's too short for me, but it looks fairly chunky and amusing. Quite a long way outside the box as far as what i've been looking at, probably too far, but it's interesting looking at stuff so different to what I'm used to.

Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:

Bloody hell, lunch time is prime posting time here eh... I can't keep up.

@Albasnow, I would like to think I'm ripped-as-feck but, well, not really. I'm a farmer type so my job keeps me pretty strong and I like a challenge, but your point is a good one - I do really need to try some of these things out on actual snow not imagined internet snow. The trouble is how to get my hands on them for an hour or two to see how they ride. I'm on the EoSB so perhaps there might be somewhere in VT to rent something a little more extreme and see how it actually rides? I'll have to look into that.

@HandyHand, I've heard some say the current Mercury is a little like the slightly older BSOD's like mine and the current BSOD has softened up a bit. This is all internet review type stuff so it varies a lot and is perhaps to be taken with a pinch of salt - without trying 'em it's all I got though eh. I can't help thinking a size (or two) up on my current BSOD would be nice. Bit longer, bit wider, and as a result a bit beefier.

Dam it's hard (possibly impossible) choosing the right board over the internet.

A snowHead

@jjams82, the Mercury is still a twin whereas BSOD is directional. There's also the Warpspeed which is a wider board and has a similar profile to the BSOD.

Agreed that it's a pain trying to decipher specs over the internet. Shame that this discussion wasn't happening back in November when Capita/Union were running demos in the UK! There might be somewhere in VT than has boards you can demo though.

A snowHead

Yeah the warpspeed looks interesting as a wider longer version of my BSOD, still high on my list...

I think I'll spend an afternoon wandering round shops in VT seeing if I can demo something - even just seeing and touching shrink-wrapped boards in the flesh would be a vast improvement over the internet!

Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?

The bsod is capita's top spec freeride deck the 2012 version was probably stiffer than the modern ones, the waist width is 25.9 which unless you're running really shallow angles and euro carving you shouldn't be getting boot catch. Also at 13.5 stone the 162 is plenty of board, I'd check your binding setup and make sure your boots heel and toe overhang is the same and maybe add a bit of forward lean if you're washing out on turns that's probably more to do with technique you're not pressuring the rear foot enough through the turn. As a do it all board the bsod is really good, a lot of stiffer freeride decks are good on fresh groomers but suck when it gets moguled especially if you're talking about 162+ boards. The best board I've ridden for carving and powder is the dupraz d1 that's probably why I own 2 of them (I also own a bsod) however it's fully directional so you lose the ability to mess around on it. If you really want just one board check out the ride warpig and the marhar lumberjack both are wide short boards that carve well and work in powder, alternatively if you want a cheap second board that carves brilliantly and is great in powder buy a Capita Slush Slasher (I also own one of these)

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Ta for the tips:)

I'll certainly be more conscious of technique on my next trip and try binding adjustments. Currently 15/-12 with what appears to be dead even overhang on each side, highbacks near enough parallel to the edge, and a couple clicks of forward lean (one click down from the middle of the adjustment, more or less a little more than where the boot naturally sits in the binding, I'll try a bit more on the next trip and see how it feels)... I'm definitely getting some boot drag though, I started to doubt it and found a lucky clip of a dicking-about type carve where it can be seen when watched frame by frame, accompanied by getting destabilised and a couple toe-scrape marks on the line. That's not to say I haven't got plenty to learn on the technique side (and always will), but it's definitely there issue when trying to push carves harder! I should add this is really only when I'm trying to carve as euro as I'm able (which is not very), and in normal riding it's no problem at all. I really love that leaned carve feeling though, it's something i'd like to work on and do better in the future, hence it being a consideration.

Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.

As a heavy 6'3" alpine boarder (no pipe/park/jump), I ride a LibTech Doughboy (6'7") in softs on powder days, and a Swoard in hards otherwise (wide carver which permits more relaxed angles).

The Doughboy was the first board I bought (decades ago).

If you're 6'3", I wouldn't fear the long board, e.g. a 2m Rad Air Tanker. You'd grow into in no time. But then, there's a compromise between stability and agility. Can't say I've missed the latter.

You'll need to Register first of course.

Those long (LONG) boards are appealing - there was a fella on the BB week on a 2m tanker and from what I saw it looked like something I'd enjoy a lot. I have to admit I do fear them a little though, particularly the idea of financially committing to one without any experience at all of a board that long. That's probably a fair part of why i'm attracted to the biggest size of a more familiar type of board, at least I've a bit more of a reference point to make decisions based on.

Then you can post your own questions or snow reports...

@jjams82, I've still got my old Jones Flagship kicking around. It's got some damage but nothing that affects the way it rides. I'll happily bring it to the EoSB for you to have a play on for as long as you want. I liked it so much that I bought both a carbon and a splitboard version...

After all it is free

Rabbit that'd be absolutely fantastic... Please do! A good go on that would help my decision making process a hell of a lot. Ta!

I've rode with many on Doughboys and Tankers who found them a challenge in mixed terrain and deep snow. I'd definitely try before you buy.
These days in BC you'll not see anything over about 168 in the back woods; most modern designs are intended to be ridden short.

--
Otherwise, if you're actually hot, then Oxcess and Kessler both make ["free ride"] boards which deliver the goods given expert input. You need to get the sizing right, although it's relatively easy to test those as both manufacturers are often out and about in Europe. They will cost twice as much as pretty consumer boards, but rather like a good sports car, there's a reason for that.

*Ski* the Net with snowHeads

I don't think I'm anywhere near hot enough to spend £1k on a board Shocked

I'd love to give one a try though. For now, A blast on as many boards as I can get my hands on at the EoSB and trying both-feet-forward stance to get the toes and heels tucked in on the BSOD seems like a good plan.

Ta folks.

Help!!

Another 'which board?' thread - want to improve on fast carving and off piste type stuff

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