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Has the European ski season shifted?

 Poster: A snowHead
Poster: A snowHead
Hi everyone, I ski a couple of times a year, one or two full weeks and maybe a long weekend or two if everything (finances) pan out....

The long weekends used to start the season for me - generally with the boys, and usually the first weekend in the new year.
We've also skied over new year as well, and I remember quite clearly having to dig the car out each morning (Chamonix). Tonnes of the stuff virtually every night!
This is all in the last 15 years...

We stopped this 'early ski' a couple of years ago because we noticed that the snow was regularly quite poor so early on.....

Is this the case?
Has the ski season shifted?

Looking at this season (2016/2017) - a very late start in most places across Europe? I watched the PdS (and other) webcams with horror during January!

Saalbach in a week and even that's not particularly fantastic for Feb / March.

PdS at the end of March... (for other reasons as well as skiing!)

Thanks for your observations / opinions / thoughts
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I don't think 15 years is a long enough sample to establish climate shifts.
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@under a new name, yep. Plenty of good early seasons in that period, plenty of poor ones. Nature of early season. Last few seasons have seen blocking patterns. But too early to know if that is pattern or exception.
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Ski seasons are shortening dramatically everywhere.

Killington, USA, has seen its season shrink 10-30% in the past 30-40 years.

Chacaltaya, Bolivia, has completely 100% shut down, forever, because the glacier and snowfield melted away.

Tignes, France, has seen its season shrink 10-20% in the past 20 years.

Snowfall across the European Alps has declined 10-20% since the 1980s.

The number of yearround skiable glaciers in the European Alps has collapsed -80% since the 1970s.

Only snowmaking hides the problem and makes things feel better.

The flood of data for shrinking ski seasons is overwhelming.
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under a new name wrote:
I don't think 15 years is a long enough sample to establish climate shifts.


Maybe not long enough to statistically confirm it, but there's definitely been a noticeable shift, christmas skiing used to be massive, now you're more likely than not to have extremely lacking snow conditions
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@shockingmoment, I've just spent my 11th consecutive Christmas in Saalbach, and for the past 10 years have also been here until at least the end of March, if not until the end of the season around mid-April. My only firm observation is that the weather is capricious and impossible to predict or second guess. I wish that I'd kept a careful record of snow conditions at the beginning and end and various points during the season; however the impression I had until the lest few seasons was that pre-Christmas conditions were generally good. Of late, snow-making has become increasingly important in the early season (and it's amazing what they seem to be able to achieve. It's worth pointing out though that, at times of early season snow drought, the temperatures have still been cold enough (i.e. during the second half of November and throughout December) to enable the resort to manufacture snow, and usually plenty of it. It therefore seems to be a case, not of unseasonably warm weather, but of high pressure anticyclones dominating the invariably sunny weather over Europe, and few of the northerly snow-bearing air streams that we like to see. That said, it's worth noting that this season there was a very timely dump in late November, which enabled the resort to open on time at the beginning of December; also, having arrived on 10th December, I heard nothing but glowing comments, and no complaints, about the piste skiing that was then available.

It often seems to be the case that there are relatively few significant dumps in a season, and those can of course occur at any time. If we get one before Christmas, everyone is more than happy, but if the first one is delayed until say Christmas week or New Year week (as has happened in each of the last few years), people begin to start talking of season change and global warming. (incidentally, if you'd been here during New Year week in the 2014/15 season, you would certainly have been digging your car out - a meter of powder fell in a few days, and the off-piste conditions were absolutely fantastic).

We have had January weather that seems more like March (although this season it was as cold as I've known it, with temperatures down to between -20 and -30), and cold snaps with significant fresh snow in early April.

Today it was warm with sleety rain in the village, but on Friday we're expecting a cold front and 10cm of snow. As I've often commented, conditions can be transformed overnight.

One final observation: I've never known a season in which it wasn't possible to keep everything running until close of business around the second or third weeks of April; not only that, but I've never been unable to ski-in ski-out from the beginning until the end of the season. The problem if there is one, is therefore with the quality, rather than the quantity of the snow, at certain times when it's "supposed" to be fairly guaranteed to be of good quality, and also with the timing of the dumps. Predicting when the dumps will arrive and when the snow will be at its best is however impossible, in my experience.

As an example, I have a recording of one of my more embarrassing escapades, on 10th April 2013, when piste conditions were pretty well perfect, and I nose-dived down the upper section of the Schattberg Nord black run. If I can find a way of posting it, I will (at risk of exposing myself to quite a lot of wee wee-taking).


Last edited by You'll need to Register first of course. on Wed 22-02-17 15:40; edited 2 times in total
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@Bennisboy, in something like 1933 Kitzbuhel council to not market Xmas as a winter sports week - so it has either been shifting for a much longer time or is more variable than people like to recall.
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I have been skiing the Amade region of Austria since the 11th Nov this season, from the beginning the man made snow was fantastic on the open pistes, haven't had that many really good off piste days this time, but a few years ago we were skiing almost knee deep fresh in the Dachsteins on the 4th of April.

Mountain weather is pretty capricious at the best of times but lately the better dumps seem to be coming later in the seasons.
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I remember we had a few really great starts to the season about 12 years ago, which meant a few of the lifts opened up early. I can remember skiing Reiteralm at the very end of October, although there were only 2 lifts open. I think this has lead a bit to people "panicking" if the lifts dont open before December, although in reality they have traditionally always opened about mid December.

I have noticed we seem to get a lot of snowfall around mid March/early April, I think it was 2015 we had the most epic dump and were skiing knee deep powder at Annaberg, the best powder we had all year.
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Capricious is a great word to describe weather, but I'm not sure it's what I'd use to define my, albeit very limited experience / observations. And yes - 15 years in climatic terms is very, very short...

But I really wouldn't consider a Christmas / early January ski holiday in Europe again. They are an expensive luxury and I can't afford to get it wrong!

The massive increase in snowmaking does, I think, back up my anecdotal observations, and as Whitegold points out, hides the issue. The snowmaking / piste making skills are incredible - no question about this. PdS reservoirs drained this season?

The vested interests in the ski industry want the season to start early (Christmas) and run for as long as possible for obvious reasons (as do I for personal and selfish reasons). I haven't been skiing long enough to know what snow making was like 15 / 20 years ago... My first foray on to snow was Andorra. The only canons I can recall were low down on bends where the snow was scraped away (mostly by me).

Tatman - please do post your close-up measurements / observation of the snow (the faceplant)... if only for scientific reasons so we too can gauge the quality and depth of the snow. Toofy Grin


Last edited by Ski the Net with snowHeads on Wed 22-02-17 7:47; edited 1 time in total
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All I know is that me and my mob used to start our season mid-December somewhere in Europe - from 2007 onwards -but now don't bother til mid-January...........cos the snow has become patchy at best and non-existent at worst.
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I remember that, in 2007 (which isn't so long ago in terms of climate change), we had half a meter of snow in the the third week of November, and the resort opened early for weekend skiing. Similarly this season the lift company decided to open up parts of the skiing area on the last two weekends of November, thanks to the heavy dump in mid-November. Unfortunately December's weather didn't live up to early expectations, but that was presumably attributable to other factors (position of jet stream?) , rather than a shift of the seasons, as suggested. Certainly, by the law of averages (if it's possible to apply such a law to the weather), we're due a snowy December. As has been previously commented, the problem has been blocking anti-cyclones, rather than warm weather, as the snow cannons have worked overtime and saved the day for Christmas skiers.
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I wonder how long before we see smaller resorts, perhaps at lower altitudes close for financial reasons...It must be difficult to survive a shorter financial season. One I keep an eye on had no snow til week 3 Jan 2017
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 You know it makes sense.
You know it makes sense.
@dublin2, the clever ones have developed their summer offerings and are becoming just as busy.
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The changes in snowmaking (both the extent of it, and the technology improvements to make it at relatively high temperatures) have made a big difference. I see that difference as mostly making it possible to have a lot open for Christmas / New Year which otherwise wouldn't be open, but I think it must also help keep snow cover till late on, just by having a greater mass of snow generated during the season

As well as variation by time (daily, yearly), there's quite a variation by location. In some cases the pattern is similar across all the alps, but it can also often be the case that the patterns are very different - for example, if most of the weather comes from the North East, Austria will be great, and most of Italy and France won't

We expect to ski most Christmases, but wait till a week before to book, with the understanding that, if it looks crap everywhere, we won't go to the alps. We always gone to the alps, and got good conditions
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 Poster: A snowHead
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Since 2008 I have skied powder every November (and often October), and every April (since 2012 also every May, and once or twice June), in Tirol.

Make of that what you will...
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@Tatman's Tours
We were in Hinterglemm in 1991, end of february.
Pre-artificial (or rather, almost completely, only the Kohlmais still had a serpentine, probably due to the WC earlier that winter
There was only some poor skiing at the Asitz, Leogang.
Glemmvalley southside was brown until the tops of the mountains. Definitely no ski-in/out
Christmas 1988, or 1989: No snow at all, only skiing at Kaprun-glacier. (with waiting-lines to match)
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My view is that in regarding what the "ski season" is the predominant factor should be natural snowfall (that sticks around). So under that lens the ski season probably wasn't due to start in much of Europe this year until that dump in mid Jan (& I would guess was even later in the Dolomites last season even if they would have had a season at all).

So if you are prepared to ski on and enjoy predominantly artificial snow then you benefit from an extended season but not fool yourself that e.g. means Xmas is really a sensible time to place all your bets on.
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@Langerzug, I recall that there was a period around that time when we had a run of snowless winters and quite a few operators went bust, including one that I used to use, called "Ski-tal", which ran a number of catered chalets in Austria and France. Another that I recall, which folded, was the curiously named "Strawberry Ski Company", based in the PDS. I distinctly remember a news item showing green slopes and spring flowers pushing up in Meribel. I suppose that this is further evidence that a run of bad winters or poor starts to the season doesn't constitute a long term trend.
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@Dave of the Marmottes, This season the first major dump in this part of Austria (ignoring the one in mid-November) was gratefully received during New Year week. I recall that our New Year guests experienced all kinds of weather that week.
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@Langerzug, Thinking about it, back in 1988 and 1989, my ski holidays (limited at that time to one week a year - how did I ever cope!) were spent in Leogang during the first week of February, which I always used to reckon was a good week to choose - late enough for an assurance of good snow but before the rush of peak season. The fact that I was wary of going earlier must have meant that there had been a few poor early starts to previous seasons. I do remember that one of those two holidays in Leogang was the coldest I have ever experienced without exception - I recall wearing a ski jacket over a ski suit over salopettes (3 layers) in a vain attempt to stay warm enough. It was after that, in the early 90s that we had the run of unseasonably warm winters, although strangely I have no recollection of it affecting my annual ski holidays, which in those days were spent in Leogang or Champery or St Martin de Belleville - always in early February.
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Back b4 snowHeads, I saw Christmas as a time you might go on a 'Christmas holiday' and, if lucky, get a bit of skiing in; quite distinct from a 'ski holiday' per sé.
I've always thought New Year to be an expensive punt but worth it to some who struggle to get the time off.
I always used to hold out for late deals in the first 2 weeks of Jan so I could be sure there was snow before I committed.

While it's uncommon for there to have been 2 such late starts to the season in a row, individually, they do not strike me as particularly abnormal.

Since snowHeads has opened my eyes to a far wider range of possibilities, I've seen options earlier (and later) in the season, that I didn't know existed before. eg. The extra probability of snow and end-of-season longevity due to the high altitude of places like Val Thorens.
But still, there is no surety ever of precipitation at appropriate temps - just probability - and as such it is quite feasible to go a full Winter without a decent dump of snow: it has happened before and will happen again.

It is sad to see the glaciers recede so rapidly though, as these are often the safety net we need to commit to a ski trip safely. Tignes for example: despite its high altitude, I'd never dare put on the PSB at the beginning of Dec (anywhere in Europe) without the backup of a glacier. OK, in the past 8 years, the snow only failed to turn up for that week once, but that time it was green fields and sunshine - literally t-shirt weather - and, but for the fall-back plan of the glacier and the cannoned run home, it would no longer have been a ski holiday at all.

So no, I don't think things have changed quite so much.
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January used to be the cheap and snow-sure month. When I late booked I would first book a weeks leave from work and then see what was available. The best week gradually crept up to the third week in January.

February never had great interest because of half term prices.

However, March and April were always in contention. Tignes used to open 365 days a year. Getting there might not make you think of skiing, but I remember thinking what a shame it was that Crystal ended their season at the resort after the end of April. We left as it was snowing and looking great.

Now that I do not automatically look for high resorts my season has shrunk.

If I was minded to go to North America again it might lengthen.
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Dave of the Marmottes wrote:
(& I would guess was even later in the Dolomites last season even if they would have had a season at all).


The first main dump arrived in the Dolomites overnight between the 2nd and 3rd of January last year.

I arrived in Selva to grass on Saturday and the place was white on Sunday.
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So, essentially, if there's a good dump of snow in say the second or third week of December, most people are happy, but, if a ridge of high pressure settles over the Alps and blocks the snow clouds from doing their thing for a couple of weeks, and this happens in consecutive seasons, people worry about climate change.
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Tatman's Tours wrote:
So, essentially, if there's a good dump of snow in say the second or third week of December, most people are happy, but, if a ridge of high pressure settles over the Alps and blocks the snow clouds from doing their thing for a couple of weeks, and this happens in consecutive seasons, people worry about climate change.


I think it's a bit more than that - if dumps of snow are so sporadic that they become an exception rather than the rule with significant warming between it's a bit different from a storm train being a few weeks late into the platform. For me in Europe this year I cancelled one weekend because I wasn't enthused at the prospects, got incredibly lucky with a weekend of solid heavy snow and have my fingers crossed that sufficient base will be established by then for a late March weekend and the EOSB. In my case I'm not really interested in piste skiing outside spring conditions so base means off piste, uncannoned base.
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 And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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Val was epic powder last week of November, great conditions over Christmas, and again for mid January.

End of Jan, we had a couple of cloudy days, which could have put a downer on it, but there was powder everywhere so we didn't mind so much. snowHead
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@Dave of the Marmottes, When you look at people's experiences and recollections going back to the 1980s, and you take account of how poor conditions sometimes were in times gone by, it's difficult to discern any pattern or trend. When it comes to the weather, nothing should surprise us, whether it's great snow in December and April or spring conditions in January and February. The only determining factor that I've noticed (being based here in Saalbach throughout the winter) is the wind direction - if it's northerly, brace yourself for snow; if it's southerly (foehn), it will be warm and moist. Too often for my liking, it's southerly, but that's just me, like a spoilt child always wanting it to be from the north.
Sometimes I wonder if we tend to remember the bad times more than those that were good. For example, when I come to think about it, the season before last was actually pretty good, with a late start (around New Year we had a meter of snow), followed by generally colder than average temperatures and regular top-ups of snow throughout the season.
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You know it makes sense.
I'd like to see some data - opening dates, for example, but I'm not sure how much I'd pay to know.

My own experience is as the OP: I used to ride in November in the Alps, these days I'd not go near Europe even at New Year. On the other hand I've ridden in Europe for the past few years here and there in early May, something which would have seemed outlandish to me years ago.

My own schedules have shifted later, and I also switch locations more.
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philwig wrote:
I'd like to see some data - opening dates, for example, but I'm not sure how much I'd pay to know.

My own experience is as the OP: I used to ride in November in the Alps, these days I'd not go near Europe even at New Year. On the other hand I've ridden in Europe for the past few years here and there in early May, something which would have seemed outlandish to me years ago.

My own schedules have shifted later, and I also switch locations more.



Loads of data around.

Killington, USA, averaged 242 inches of snowfall per season in the 1990s... Falling -22% to 190 inches per season in the 2010s.

Tignes, France, opened for skiing 360 days per year on average in the 1990s... Falling -14% to 310 days in the 2010s.

Chacaltaya, Bolivia, opened for skiing 65 days per year on average in the 1990s... Falling -100% to 0 days in the 2010s.
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 Poster: A snowHead
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@Tatman's Tours, I'm not suggesting that evidence of snowfall patterns over a couple of seasons provides any clear pattern of climate change. I remember only too well shitty Xmas/NY conditions in Europe in the late 80s/early 90s. In recent years I've toyed with giving it a chance and then bottled out and spent considerably more for a more reliable option.

I'm simply suggesting that people should think of the core ski season as running from mid Jan to mid April and make decisions appropriately. I don't expect many European property owners or resorts to endorse this given the huge business boost of a successful Xmas/NY period, nor do I expect people to actually learn how to ski spring snow conditions rather than bitch about it being "too slushy" for the latter month.
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Below a link to dates from the Arlberg-region, in German.
Conclusion: in winter at this altitude no real climatechanges visible. In fact, winters are becoming very slightly colder on average

https://www.zukunft-skisport.at/wp-content/uploads/2015/12/Studie_Lech-Z%C3%BCrs-Warth-Schroecken_Wintertemperaturen_Schnee_G%C3%BCntherAigner_2015.pdf
E.g. Page 20 for cumulative snowfall in Lech, Winters 1946/47 until 2014/2015
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@Dave of the Marmottes, April is terrible. People definitely shouldn't go then.
(I love those empty, 'too slushy' April slopes)
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@Dave of the Marmottes, my view is that the ratio of good to bad years has changed. I've been skiing for 30 years, and as pointed out by others above, it is the regular big dumps that have disappeared. The locals I've spoken to state that the resort never used to report snow falls less than 30cm, but these have now become much less frequent. Now 1cm counts as new snow!

I cannot honestly remember when man made snow making equipment was first installed (15 years ago, or more?), but that shows the resorts already knew snow fall patterns had changed enough to make regular new snow an unpredictable occurrence.

I would love to see honest figures across Europe for conditions without artificially produced snow. I predict that the majority of traditional locations (rather than purpose built) would have no runs to the resort open for the majority of the time.

Oh, and Spring Corn and Slush don't count as 'Snow' Smile
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@PowderAdict, if you read your own statement, you'll notice the reporting bias throughout...

Snowmaking was first installed in 1950. Being, for those with challenged "maths" (it's not "maths" it's arithmetic) 67 years ago, not 15.

All the installations demonstrate is a demand to a. more or less assure early season skiing and b. greatly enhance the experience on high traffic areas. N.b. One apparently does the same with office carpeting.
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Wait..you can get naturally occurring offpiste office carpeting? This changes everything.
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[quote]Val was epic powder last week of November, great conditions over Christmas....[/quote]

Thorens? Frejus? Morel? D'Isere? ....loire Laughing
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Quote:
Ski seasons are shortening dramatically everywhere. Killlington, USA, has seen its season shrink 10-30% in the past 30-40 years. Chacaltaya, Bolivia, has completely 100% shut down, forever, because the glacier and snowfield melted away.Tignes, France, has seen its season shrink 10-20% in the past 20 years. Snowfall across the European Alps has declined 10-20% since the 1980s. 
The number of yearround skiable glaciers in the European Alps has collapsed -80% since the 1970s. Only snowmaking hides the problem and makes things feel better. The flood of data for shrinking ski seasons is overwhelming.
Good God! That's all unusually positive for Whitegold, Snowheads' resident Private Fraser......Let's face it, we're DOOOOOOOMED Laughing

Despite that, I've been skiing every year since 1988; always ski early season (Oct/Nov); late season (late April/early May); summer (June - September); 40-65 days per year - and have (touch wood wink) never had a snowless ski trip.... Very Happy
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I'm in the "too soon to tell" camp.

Worth pointing out that Les Contamines was going to open early this year (when they got 1m in early November) but then the Foehn blew and it rained - largely greened the hill. After that it was cold enough for snowmaking so they were able to partly open as per original schedule.
What to make of that?
Slight change to an depression track and it would have been a brilliant start to the season!

The problem with this stuff is the signal to noise ratio in weather is poor - tremendous weather volatility around the climate trend.
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I tend to agree that the season is shifting out. Seems to be the same for "seasons" in general. I have only been in Europe since 2006 but even since then I think there has been a small shift. The same applies to NZ. Ski fields used to always (mostly) be open from mid June/early July but hasn't been the case for quite a few years now. It really doesn't get going until August now.
In Europe the weather also seems to be more volatile. When it snows it goes mental and dumps 60cm and thats it for 2/3 weeks. There is no 5cm here, 10cm there. One big bang and done. Its all very odd! Will we even have decent skiing in 20 years??
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