 Poster: A snowHead
|
Can anyone recommend any safety apps for using on/off the piste? Me and my partner are currently "doing" a season, I often find I'll take an off piste route, different piste or simply head back up for another run. If I was to crash hard or get lost, is there an app that could notify my partner?
If you use any other safety apps let me know 
|
|
|
|
|
|
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
|
@shredder, Do you actually ski off piste on your own?
In the French Aples I use Viewranger as my mapping application and it has a buddy beacon to show where your "buddies" phones are. Not sure if this constitutes a safety app.
|
|
|
|
|
|
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
|
Side piste/side country might be more accurate than off piste - areas between pistes or that link back up to other pistes.
Ya have used that before, along with Strava beacon but I don't have roaming data
|
|
|
|
|
|
You need to Login to know who's really who.
You need to Login to know who's really who.
|
|
What are you expecting the app to do exactly?
|
|
|
|
|
|
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
|
|
|
|
You'll need to Register first of course.
You'll need to Register first of course.
|
| shredder wrote: |
Can anyone recommend any safety apps for using on/off the piste? Me and my partner are currently "doing" a season, I often find I'll take an off piste route, different piste or simply head back up for another run. If I was to crash hard or get lost, is there an app that could notify my partner?
If you use any other safety apps let me know |
Just my own: Rata for Android. Sends out SMS periodically to a list of friends, can also respond to friends who send an SMS to update your location.
It works over SMS because it is much more reliable in the mountains requiring only few milliseconds to contact to a cell and send the message. Very low power usage as it sleeps most of the time with the GPS off (at least on more recent Androids).
As for crashing hard, you can do that with the accelerometer but risk a lot of false positives. I'm going to add a feature where if you don't move for the update period it raises an alert - but just with friends not with rescue services as again it risks false positives (oh yeah, I was just sitting here having me lunch when the Swiss airforce arrived to pick me up).
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
I use Bugle for mountain biking but it does need a data connection. Basically you note what activity you're doing, when you expect to be back and which contacts to notify. It then lets the contacts know (mine are all set up on email) that you're doing something. If you check in within the time then nothing happens, but if you're late then both you and the contacts you've selected get a message to say that you're late.
What it doesn't do is actually locate you, but at least it narrows down where you've gone and what you're doing. Not sure how it would work for skiing, works well for me on the bike because I can head to a trail centre and let people know that I'm going and which runs I intend to do. In theory I could be lying in a ditch for an hour before it notifies anyone that I'm gone, but that's better than them not knowing at all. Of course you also have to be disciplined and stick to the routes you've said you'll be on.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Thanks for all the suggestions, found a couple more from another forum:
http://kitestring.io
"Kitestring checks up on you when you’re out and alerts your friends if you don’t respond."
http://r2bapp.com
"If you're not back in time we'll let someone know via SMS. No mobile signal required."
| Quote: |
Just my own: Rata for Android. Sends out SMS periodically to a list of friends, can also respond to friends who send an SMS to update your location.
It works over SMS because it is much more reliable in the mountains requiring only few milliseconds to contact to a cell and send the message. Very low power usage as it sleeps most of the time with the GPS off (at least on more recent Androids).
|
That looks really good, it says Unreleased on the Play Store - will it work if I download it? Yeah deffo don't want any false alarms with rescue services. Is the location details in the SMS my coordinates? Presume my contact just throws it into google maps or something?
| Quote: |
I use Bugle for mountain biking but it does need a data connection. Basically you note what activity you're doing, when you expect to be back and which contacts to notify. It then lets the contacts know (mine are all set up on email) that you're doing something. If you check in within the time then nothing happens, but if you're late then both you and the contacts you've selected get a message to say that you're late.
|
I checked out Bugle, exactly what I wanted - I could set off from the Wifi or whatever and check back in when I get to my destination which hopefully has wifi too. Sadly I'm on Android and seems to be only on iphone
|
|
|
|
|
|
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
|
|
Have a look at Uepaa!. The exclamation mark is part of the app name, not just me getting over-enthusiastic. From memory it has some functions that work without phone reception, auto-transmit on deceleration etc.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
There is an app designed for horse riders that if you are still for a certain time period (which I think you can set yourself) it will firstly beep at you for 30 seconds and if you don't respond (ie tap the phone to tell it you are ok) it will call your emergency contact with your location. I don't have a smart phone so I've not used it myself and I'm unsure what it is called but it has had good reviews from horse riders. I think it could also work for skiing. Some googling should find what it is called.
|
|
|
|
|
|
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
|
| mah wrote: |
| There is an app designed for horse riders that if you are still for a certain time period (which I think you can set yourself) it will firstly beep at you for 30 seconds and if you don't respond (ie tap the phone to tell it you are ok) it will call your emergency contact with your location. I don't have a smart phone so I've not used it myself and I'm unsure what it is called but it has had good reviews from horse riders. I think it could also work for skiing. Some googling should find what it is called. |
Sounds like http://www.horseridersos.com/
I've not used it, I just searched for it.
|
|
|
|
|
|
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
|
General emergency app (recommended by guide) is echo112
Big red button to hit, which transmits your phone and GPS coordinates to emergency services who then initiate the rescue.
Obviously need to have some phone connectivity, but much more accurate for position if poor phone visibility can't accurately triangulate your cell location.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
| geoffers wrote: |
General emergency app (recommended by guide) is echo112
Big red button to hit, which transmits your phone and GPS coordinates to emergency services who then initiate the rescue.
Obviously need to have some phone connectivity, but much more accurate for position if poor phone visibility can't accurately triangulate your cell location. |
You would also need to be conscious.
Maybe a combo of the this app and the horse one (or some other static for x minutes app) is required if there isn't something that covers both.
|
|
|
|
|
|
You know it makes sense.
|
|
|
|
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
|
|
|
|
Poster: A snowHead
|
|
If you are solo skiing in such a remote place that if unconscious you won't be found without an app alerting rescue etc I think you are pretty much farked if you are having such incidents. Maybe different if you have a medical condition like epilepsy or narcolepsy.
|
|
|
|
|
|
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
|
If your phone is in a handy pocket it may be too close to your beacon. I can't think of a situation where you would be so hurt that you needed to use the app and couldn't get into a backpack.
Ir if you were so hurt and could only get to a pocket in front of you, your phone may be in a position to block your beacon so would be useless in an avalanche.
Or if your just lost then use google maps and phone your partner.
If I was off piste (even at the sides) I would prefer to have a working beacon rather than a phone app.
|
|
|
|
|
|
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
|
|
Any apps out there if I get really sh1tfaced and fall off my bike into a ditch cycling home and freeze to death?
|
|
|
|
|
|
You need to Login to know who's really who.
You need to Login to know who's really who.
|
|
I must admit, to be a little more serious, that the idea of relying on a phone app for my safety falls into a whole set of delinquencies about personal safety.
|
|
|
|
|
|
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
|
|
If there was an app which taught people basic mountain safety that would perhaps be the best you could do. The hapless consumer could buy that, and read the text the day before, then they'd be good to go? Or not.
|
|
|
|
|
|
You'll need to Register first of course.
You'll need to Register first of course.
|
|
@under a new name, agreed that relying on it would be foolish. When I use it on the bike if anything I ride more safely, because I stick to the route I've said rather than going on 'natural' trails. I also ride in the same way that I would without it (which admittedly could be considered too aggressive/quick by some), so it's just an additional safety net.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
| under a new name wrote: |
| I must admit, to be a little more serious, that the idea of relying on a phone app for my safety falls into a whole set of delinquencies about personal safety. |
I don't see anyone talking about "relying" on these apps. So you prefer not to have any additional help besides prudence?
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
| abc wrote: |
| ... So you prefer not to have any additional help besides prudence? |
That's not right though - the issue is if these toys provide additional safety over more traditional approaches.
As an example take the mobile phone, which I feel has not increased mountain safety, but which has increased the number of useless call outs. That doesn't mean that you shouldn't carry it, but it doesn't make idiots safer, and it costs rescuers lots of time in dealing with idiots who are competent enough to use a phone but who really should not be in the mountains.
|
|
|
|
|
|
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
|
@SnoodyMcFlude, @shredder,
What does the Bugle App look like, I can't find on iPhone
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
| philwig wrote: |
As an example take the mobile phone, which I feel has not increased mountain safety |
No increase in mountain safety?
If someone is injured but still conscious, they can call out and tell his rescuer where about he's at. Without the phone, no one will know he's injured till he fail to turn up at the end of the day.
Just because the technology got abused a lot doesn't mean it's not useful some of the time.
|
|
|
|
|
|
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
|
|
@1969jma, just a yellow box with a green circle and a blue b in the centre
|
|
|
|
|
|
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
|
no it's called Darwinism - if you're out alone on an off piste - well then poo-poo can happen.
lets hope it doesn't eh...
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Darwinism is for those who go out without taking full advantage of available technology that could help them when poo-poo happens.
By definition, Darwinism is for all creature who can't adapt to changes in the environment.
|
|
|
|
|
|
You know it makes sense.
|
|
Yebbut there is such a thing as overadapting to changes in the environment - evidence the number of SUVs you in the ditch on a powder day approaching US ski resorts, they've adapted to having 4wd by continuing to drive like its summer.
|
|
|
|
|
|
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
|
I have a different take on the SUV in the ditch.
I used to see cars and light trucks in the ditch. That was before there's SUV. Now, I see a lot more SUV in the ditch. But the total number of vehicle in the ditch hasn't change that much.
I suspect it's the same group of drivers who ended up in the ditch. It's just their choice of vehicle has changed. The fault is not in the technology. It's in the people who use it inappropriately. The same people will mis-use any technology, new or old.
|
|
|
|
|
|
Poster: A snowHead
|
| abc wrote: |
| philwig wrote: |
As an example take the mobile phone, which I feel has not increased mountain safety |
No increase in mountain safety?
If someone is injured ... |
To be fair, if someone is injured, they've pretty much always been doing something unsafe. Rescue kit such as transceiver, shovel & probe, and protection kit such as spine strap, helmet or airbag only mitigate against mountain un-safety.
|
|
|
|
|
|
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
|
|
|
|
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
|
| Quote: |
If there was an app which taught people basic mountain safety that would perhaps be the best you could do. The hapless consumer could buy that, and read the text the day before, then they'd be good to go? Or not.
|
I've got a mammut app on my iphone which I was promted to when I bought a mammut transceiver some years ago. It has an inclinometer (line up an image on your screen), compass, some aide memoirs on assessing avalanche risk. search patterns etc. The only thing I really use is the inclinometer and compass (and obviously an iphone already has a compass) but the other stuff is quite educational to go through if you are a beginner.
echo 122 sounds worthwhile if only for the time when you arrive in a new area and forget to put the number of the ski patrol in your phone
|
|
|
|
|
|
You need to Login to know who's really who.
You need to Login to know who's really who.
|
| Quote: |
Rescue kit such as transceiver, shovel & probe, and protection kit such as spine strap, helmet or airbag only mitigate against mountain un-safety.
|
Fair point but worth pointing out that any trip out in the mountains is a calculated risk which can be managed but not eliminated so you are never completely safe. To some extent it's a question of risk and reward and where you personally draw a line. Athough you definitely want to avoid accidentally drawing the line in the wrong place because you assessed the risk as being significantly lower than it was!
|
|
|
|
|
|
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
|
| moffatross wrote: |
| To be fair, if someone is injured, they've pretty much always been doing something unsafe. |
One time I was in a chalet where a person had been out with a guided group of piste. They were at the back of the group, fell over and hit their head. By the time, the guide realised he was out of sight. He was assumed to have gone home! I injured myself skiing alone down some mellow of piste. I wasn't going at a particularly fast pace. Just happens sometimes. I agree with the sentiment that there are other things you should worry about first but it's always worth exploring other ways to improve safety or to help save a life or two.
|
|
|
|
|
|
You'll need to Register first of course.
You'll need to Register first of course.
|
|
@jedster, @Layne, I'm not arguing against the received wisdom for using safety equipment. It was a pedantic point really in that that most safety equipment is extraneous until such time as an unsafe thing has occurred.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
| moffatross wrote: |
| It was a pedantic point really in that that most safety equipment is extraneous until such time as an unsafe thing has occurred. |
Everyone has to decide whether to be "absolutely" safe, or to accept some degree of risk.
We don't wear helmets walking down the street. But the risk of something falling above is non-zero, albeit rather small. For that very reason, many choose not to wear helmet when skiing, for the risk of falling on one's head is also rather small, albeit a little higher than object falling on one's head on a random walk to the neighbourhood pub.
Going off-piste is "unsafe" in most situations. Apart from avalanches, there are rocks covered by snow that could cause a fall, voids where snow may collapse under the skiers weight... the list goes on. Those risk are mitigated by the skiers knowledge and skill, but never completely eliminated.
So when a skier falls, or buried by avalanche, various "safety equipment", be it transceiver, or cell phone have the potential to save the injured/buried skier. What the OP was asking was what apps may enhance the capability of these safety equipment in the event of "unsafe" incident. Do you consider transceiver extraneous as helmet? Is a alert app any more extraneous? Or is cell phone less extraneous since one is carrying it even when not skiing?
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
@abc, Dunno. But can say for sure that a cellphone is pretty extraneous insofar as (unlike a helmet or a transceiver), it is pretty unreliable in a pinch. Most of my skiing is in areas not covered by phone networks. Hell, two days last week, I needed to drive through snowdrifts and blizzards from Moffat to another town where I was working, a 40 mile journey with 30 miles of it out of mobile reception area, and knowing that, I'd prepared for the worst.
|
|
|
|
|
|
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
|
@moffatross, that's just for your situation. Where you are have poor cell phone coverage. You can't just extrapolate that excuse to all other area, including that of OP's.
It's like someone who never leaves the piste to say transceiver is the most extraneous of all safety equipment. It maybe true for his situation but he's extrapolating beyond the validity of his own limited experience.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Haven't logged in a while but this thread has gotten way outta hand! My own personal view is that nobody should be relying on apps, increasing risk due to apps (or any other technology for that matter), it's simply a matter of I wanted something simple to increase safety in my own situation...
Uepaa! is absolutely brilliant, love it and the concept but sadly not enough users in the area to make it function correctly.
I'm using R2B at the moment and can't complain, very good for just tap and go. This one:
https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=com.thoughtkube.r2b
Don't have the link for iOS but it's probably on their website.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
FAQ
