 Poster: A snowHead
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Hi am just looking for some tips/advice - curious if any ladies out there have found whether being taught by a woman (or a man who acknowledges/understands how female biomechanics might affect their skiing) has been of any benifit? I know a good teacher male or female is vital and there are some excellent male instructors out there - but I'm curious if there are any accepted differences in technique for the curvier skier?
As far as my personal biomechanics go: I have slightly knocked knees, I only really noticed this when I took up rowing last year, when tired I have to concentrate hard to stop them coming together on the rower. I understand this is a common female pelvis type thing? Also my right thigh appears 1cm longer (only) on the rower than the left!!? I have a torn right meniscus - conservatively managed and grade 5 ACJ right shoulder also conservatively managed! I also have a small waist/torso (small core) and my centre of mass is very definitely south of my belly button, yay. Not quite Kim Kardasian but you get the picture... I am wondering if all of this combined is affecting how I ski (am very definitely stuck in the back seat on the intermediate plateau), my turn to the L is stronger, I have almost no 'up' extension/unweighting, can't really get my weight forward and tend to skate not really ski and consequently end up punching my way round and facing the hill! Any tips and advice from female experts and instructors for improving things gratefully received - boys too but I'm really asking the girls from a personal experience point of view... or am I just trying to validate excuses for not improving? 
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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@frankEvb, my lay male opinion is that grrl-specific tuition is a good thing but mostly from a psych pov.
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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+1 for the psych pov, my wife is a much better skier than she allowed herself to be, private lessons with an instructor (male) who managed to get her over some of her fears worked wonders for her, especially getting herself forward. What sort of boots do you use? Are they just hire boots, could they be too stiff?
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I can't see how a female instructor would be able to give more effective advice re: skiing with a larger bum, knock knees and one leg that is noticeably longer than the other... I think a boot-fitter would be a good call. You do see plenty of blokes skiing with a stronger turn on one side, punching their way round etc...
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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I've been with two female learners who were complete and utter nutters - point the skis down hill, enjoy the speed, and stop by, er.... um... didn't think about that... err... crashing. (They were both good horsewomen which I think makes a big difference to enjoying going quickly without really being in complete control.) And two who were complete scaredy cats who never went again.
And male learners who have fallen into the latter camp, and into the 'get it done precisely' camp, and the nutter camp.
Nothing to do with sex, everything to do with fitness and 'psych' (sic).
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Absolute tosh. Any instructor worth his or her salt should beable to instruct anyone and ficus on the necessary specifics.
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| holidayloverxx wrote: |
| ficus on the necessary specifics. |
I think the OP was describing herself as more pear-shaped than fig-shaped 
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@holidayloverxx, inclined to agree with this, if you are aware of your own weak points then a half decent instructor would recognise them too and know how to work with them. In fact you can probably start to work on it yourself. Try and establish why your R turn isn't as strong, think about what you're doing when turning L and try to mirror it. Also work on pole plants/hands forward to help with shifting your weight.
Mind you I'm not sure that being stronger to one side and being backseat has anything to do with physiology, they're both just general problems with a lot of people's skiing.
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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Now I am on a bigger screen, other than being female friendly, tbh, any good instructor is a good instructor and I am really extremely sceptical that just because a morphology/pathology happens to be attached to a wimmin, that there's anything at all special about it.
Bloke in restaurant up mountain today had bigger boobs and a more pear shaped figure than most girls I've ever seen...
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Other than the fact that instructors need to know we women tend to being bit knock kneed (count myself in that category), I see no need for "female specific" instruction on technique. Most people have issues of a biomechnical nature in some way, such as strong and weak sides. A good instructor should be able to tune in to an individual's issues. The psychology of women can be, I admit, a bigger difference though.
I confess I cringe at the thought of skiing with the "sisterhood"..too many group hugs etc for this particular stiff lipped englishwoman. I used to be a member of another online women only forum based in the USA, but there came a point where it began to make me feel positively nauseous, plus they didn't get my english sense of irony, so I bailed out.
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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once had a male teacher teaching my ex wife who couldn't get his head around the fact that she didn't want to push herself to the absolute limit and would rather be safe and consolidate control and technique rather than go on every steeper stuff and fall over more.
that said it was possible a poor/ good teacher split rather than male / female as when I went with him for a lesson he took great delight in getting to me try the powder between the pistes in my second week of skiing and found it hilarious when I did a couple of somersault face plants as turning in the deep stuff was a bit beyond my capability at that point. he also took down a steepish black run (very slowly) in the fog. it was only when I looked back up from the bottom the following day, I realised how frigging steep it was. on reflection definitely not the best teacher I've had.
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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@frankEvb, I've got some similar biomechanics to you but I've tackled that via bootfitter and personal trainer rather than by ski instruction per se. My ski instruction has mostly been with men although it's been lovely to occasionally ski with a female trainer. That more for a different type of chairlift chat rather than a particular difference of approach.
As suggested by others, it's more relevant to compare between good/not so good instructors. One of the most useful parts of Snowheads is the personal recommendations people can give. If you indicate where you're planning on going, chances are someone can recommend a good instructor.
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You know it makes sense.
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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Got to say I have coached several mens and ladies volleyball teams and they are very different.
In fact I was watching a 40 minute video last week by an American female coach and the differences coaching women and specifically how to get them to be competitive.
BK (before kids) me and the wife were being guided on a vallee blanche alternative and he asked if we were scared at the top pitch and whether we wanted to be roped. My missus said yes. Later I asked what the hell she said yes for (we both knew she would be fine skiing it) and she said well I was. I said, well so was I but I wasn't going to tell him that. There is scared and then there is really scared. Just a simple illustration of a male/female mindset.
That said I would expect most instructors have experience of both and can adapt.
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Poster: A snowHead
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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Isn't the best approach to be treated (or to treat your client, if you are teaching) as an individual? Obviously this is compromised to a certain extent in groups, but even in that situation it's not difficult to differentiate to provide coaching which matches as best as possible the needs of the person you are teaching, regardless of their gender. I have different approaches with the people I teach, which is honed the longer you are teaching them, but I don't have a "boys' lesson plan" and a "girls' lesson plan".
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
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@rob@rar, ideally yes! But in practice, at least so far for me, it doesn't pan out that way. Groups are a good thing and there's safety in numbers at the beginning - but after a while we all seek a more individual approach... Several years ago I payed for a days tuition with an instructor and spent the day skiing behind him down blue runs with sod all instruction " just follow my track" and listening to him brag about his marvellous life/abilities on the lifts. He was a seasoned (bored) 'professional' but he completely knocked my confidence and told me I had no place on a red run as (at the time) I couldn't carve (!?) I think as I wasn't in the least 'bunny' like he had no interest in teaching me. I realise this is 'the nightmare scenario' but I have been put off risking individual lessons as a result because they can do as much harm as good! Thus my asking you lot 
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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@frankEvb, I've skied with a female instructor when having a lesson for the last few years (because I always ski with the same instructor, not because I always request a woman). Losing confidence after injury (so back seat skiing etc.) is normal unfortunately. I like her because there are times when I'm nervous about doing something and she'll just go on ahead and tell me to stop p1ssing about, and there are other times when I'm totally up for doing something and she'll just come out with "no, you're not good enough for that yet", so I feel confident that if she says I can do something I can, and I don't waste time worrying that I can't. Don't think that's got anything to do with sex. She's also the only instructor I've had in my adult life - to be fair I've only had 4 - who hasn't asked me out (though I'm an old married woman these days so really don't think I'd be fending them off with a stick).
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| frankEvb wrote: |
| @rob@rar, ideally yes! But in practice, at least so far for me, it doesn't pan out that way. Groups are a good thing and there's safety in numbers at the beginning - but after a while we all seek a more individual approach... Several years ago I payed for a days tuition with an instructor and spent the day skiing behind him down blue runs with sod all instruction " just follow my track" and listening to him brag about his marvellous life/abilities on the lifts. He was a seasoned (bored) 'professional' but he completely knocked my confidence and told me I had no place on a red run as (at the time) I couldn't carve (!?) I think as I wasn't in the least 'bunny' like he had no interest in teaching me. I realise this is 'the nightmare scenario' but I have been put off risking individual lessons as a result because they can do as much harm as good! Thus my asking you lot |
Sorry to hear your experience, that's just appalling. But I think it's the difference between a good instructor and, in this case, a worse than worthless instructor rather than a gender-bias to the way that you might want to learn.
The most obvious gender-based biomechanical difference is the possibility of being "knock-kneed", or the Q Angle as it is better described (although there seems to be some doubt even about that for men and women of equal height), but in my experience the differences in individual learning styles, attitudes, expectations, aspirations, etc far outweigh any generic men v. women differences. I think the best option is to find a good instructor (of whatever gender you prefer), and here is a good a place as any to ask for recommendations.
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| frankEvb wrote: |
| @rob@rar, ideally yes! But in practice, at least so far for me, it doesn't pan out that way. Groups are a good thing and there's safety in numbers at the beginning - but after a while we all seek a more individual approach... Several years ago I payed for a days tuition with an instructor and spent the day skiing behind him down blue runs with sod all instruction " just follow my track" and listening to him brag about his marvellous life/abilities on the lifts. He was a seasoned (bored) 'professional' but he completely knocked my confidence and told me I had no place on a red run as (at the time) I couldn't carve (!?) I think as I wasn't in the least 'bunny' like he had no interest in teaching me. I realise this is 'the nightmare scenario' but I have been put off risking individual lessons as a result because they can do as much harm as good! Thus my asking you lot |
Lesson learned. Get recommendations for an instructor, or if you can't try and meet them beforehand, or if you can't just book for one hour initially to see if you hit it off. Or indeed a combination of all three.
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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My wife and I have had lessons with the the Ecole du Ski Francais, the Swiss ESS, and in the USA. The ESF were consistently expensive and unworthwhile. So I think it's more to do with your tutor's culture than gender. I wouldn't bother in France. Yes, I know that they are highly qualified and not everyone is the same, but I think that the odds of getting value and effective teaching in France aren't good. Perhaps it doesn't help that a friend of mine was jailed in France for daring to instruct, even 'though she was ESF-qualified and registered officially with a ski school. Partly the reason why I don't ski there any more. Overall, elsewhere, I think that you have a much better chance of getting sympathetic and useful coaching.
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@frankEvb, start another thread in the Resorts section asking 'Recommend me an instructor in Zell am See" and I expect you'll get some advice. None from me in that resort, I'm afraid.
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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@Layne, have you got your signature written in massive letters to try to subliminally tell us girls you're big and macho or something?!
This thread is heading in a predictable direction... good luck with it all @frankEvb,
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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@frankEvb, My last lesson was with a female Canadian ski instructor the one bit of advice she gave to her all female class of 6 35yr+ students was "remember ladies (American name for a bum bags) first" .
It seemed to help we were skiing 30cm of fresh powder at the time. The class was a ladies who ski day so lesson, lunch, lesson decamp to a bar. These days are fairly normal over there I would book again if there is one this year, but we will not be in the same resort.
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You know it makes sense.
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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Poster: A snowHead
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| frankEvb wrote: |
| @Layne, You're right - it does sound a bit patronising and sexist but then equally I have never heard that phrase used to a woman! |
Sadly it is often said in front of little girls.
My fab ski instructor is ESF  so, no, not teaching in Zell but hopefully someone will be able to give you a good recommendation if you start a specific thread.
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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@Hand Wringer, True dat! will do
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
You need to Login to know who's really who.
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| frankEvb wrote: |
@t44tomo, as I am very much more your 'I'll give that a go' rolypoly in the powder kinda gal! I love skiing in fog/cloud - completely removes the fear factor if you can't see how steep it is... (l'm joking!) I do think a lot of the time the instructors are pushing us way beyond our comfort zones for their own amusement but then also I've noticed the only way to progress is to "Feel the fear and do it anyway"... That's the title of a good book for skiers of a nervous disposition...
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Love the gung ho approach. I too love skiing in snowy conditions and cloud...though have had the most horrible experiences in total total whiteout where Mr P and I felt very sick as we could not see from one piste pole to the next.
We both had some cracking tuition last season from Mark Jones, Dave Cowell and Rupert Tildesley of ICESI/Mountain Masters in Val D'Isere. I cannot stress how confidence inspiring they were as well as making it all fun. (Dave Cowell must be the most cheerful man on two planks!). They clearly take great pleasure from making you a better skier.
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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| Hand Wringer wrote: |
| @Layne, have you got your signature written in massive letters to try to subliminally tell us girls you're big and macho or something?!@frankEvb, |
Have you seen the size of my sig love!?
Nah, was just having a play around. I've toned it down but maybe it's still too big, whatdya reckon?
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You'll need to Register first of course.
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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| Quote: |
grade 5 ACJ right shoulder also conservatively managed!
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Wow! that is some injury. I though half of IIIs were operated on and almost all IVs and above. If you can get on with that injury then I don't think there are any mental barriers. May I ask what other sports you are doing
ps just had my grade IV locked down yesterday.
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| James the Last wrote: |
I've been with two female learners who were complete and utter nutters - point the skis down hill, enjoy the speed, and stop by, er.... um... didn't think about that... err... crashing. (They were both good horsewomen which I think makes a big difference to enjoying going quickly without really being in complete control.) And two who were complete scaredy cats who never went again.
And male learners who have fallen into the latter camp, and into the 'get it done precisely' camp, and the nutter camp.
Nothing to do with sex, everything to do with fitness and 'psych' (sic). |
I agree with this, I can't see how a female specific instructor would be any different, I also think it is down to a personality trait to just keep at it even though it is harder. I do know we probably ski at a wider stance due to our pelvic position than men do, but out from that it seems to be the same for both male and females as to how they learn.
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FAQ
Thank you for your advice now I'm out of the healing phase I have seen a physio and hit the gym and all things bio-mechanical are vastly improved on the flat so hopefully will be too on the slopes!
I wasn't stirring - honest gov... Least not initially! 