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Is there ANY advantage to hiring anything but economy skis?

 Poster: A snowHead
Poster: A snowHead
Hi guys,

I've been skiing regularly since 1988 and every year I have hired the cheapest skis I can find.

Although I will never win any awards for style, I can ski pretty competently on all but the most vertical slopes. (last season I skied down every single slope in Grandvalira except Riberal and that was only because it was well and truly fenced off all week for competition use only).

Each year I pretty much ski non stop from the first lift to the last and I have a really good time doing it.

I'm just doing the rounds again for my next trip (and it's looking like £23 for 7 days hire in Les Deux Alpes) but I wondered if anyone thinks that hiring anything other than the cheapest economy skis could possibly increase my enjoyment in any way?

My "cheapest" skis are always in good condition with good edges and waxed and allow me complete control while skiing - I rarely fall more than once each season. To my untrained eye, they look no different to everyone else's skis so what do you get for the extra money - or is it just a snob tax?

Just curious...

(FYI I like to maximise my time on the slopes by traversing slopes as much as possible and only go hell for leather downwards if needed to get over a flat bit)

Chris
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 Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
I guess if you're asking the question, then prob not! wink
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 Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
@Kowal.Ski, There is pretty much an identical question regarding Tech Clothing. If you are happy with what you use then carry on. Unless you try something different you won't know.

http://snowheads.com/ski-forum/viewtopic.php?t=128634#2974309
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@Kowal.Ski, May I suggest you try for yourself
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 Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
If you are skiing quite slowly just coverage millage on piste, then what you describe is probably going to be fine. Obviously there is a difference in more expensive skis (for higher hire price). But like any sports and sports equipment, you have to be at the level to feel the difference. Can a good tennis player play ok with a 10 year old aluminum racket - yes. Will they be better with a modern graphite racket - yes. You may be interested to hire some top notch GS skis for example, but if you are not skiing such that stiffness and holding an edge matters, then don't worry.
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@Kowal.Ski, No wonder you "never win any awards fopr style" flapping around on the limp noodles that pass for budget hire skis.

Go 6* / Platinum this year and you will be astonished and delighted
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 Then you can post your own questions or snow reports...
Then you can post your own questions or snow reports...
@Kowal.Ski, I'm not even sure why "better" skis should be more expensive. Most of this sort of thing is a marketing exercise; along with "new" features most years by various brands. The majority of skis are all made by a handful of manufactures; and sometimes the skis in a range can be the same, but just with different paint jobs.

Plus I have found that hire shops often mix-and-match and kinda just give you what they have available anyway. More than once I have had to stop them giving a friend who is a total beginner a stiff, long, racing piste ski.

From the description of your skiing style and preferences, I can't see that paying more is going to be any help. I would guess that the skis you are hiring are regular piste skis that are quite "soft" and easy to turn. Once you start paying more, the skis pretty much get stiffer, and require more effort to turn etc., but will be more stable when you are going at speed.

Don't pay the snob tax is my view Very Happy
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 After all it is free Go on u know u want to!
After all it is free Go on u know u want to!
If you ever in a resort and you see a "ski test" tent near the bottom lift, give it a go.
I would be tempted to pay for a bit more to a ski hire shop that I could trust, tell them what you ski like and they should offer you advice on what to try and let you try a few different models during the week.

After all it could well be the making of your holiday for a few extra quid.

I notice you say you "like to maximise your time on the slopes by traversing most of the way"
Do you have a points card then?

When was the last time you took any lessons?

By the way .. Welcome to snow heads Very Happy
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
@Kowal.Ski, you are @TTT and I claim my £5.
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The main thing is... can you ski different skis and really feel the differences in how they perform? If not then why pay more. However, if you are pushing yourself and feel any of the following then the ski may be holding you back.

Can't keep edge grip on high speed turns.
Skis wiping out on tips when turning.
Tip wobble at speed / ski feeling unstable.
Feeling like you want to go faster but can't.
Juddering on hard pack.
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 snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
If you want to learn to carve your turns, then you need a decent carving ski. If you are happy pootling about traversing slopes and doing gentle parallel turns, then basic skis are fine.
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 And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
@Kowal.Ski, wot @Scarpa, said. I have found there are huge differences between beginners skis and (so called) expert skis, and there are big differences between different skis made by different manufacturers. It's all a matter of personal preference. I personally like a fairly stiff ski that can hold an edge on ice and doesn't judder at speed (currently on Völkl RTM 81). Others may like a ski that is softer and lighter and easier to turn... personal preference, but you need to try them to find out.
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So if you're just off somewhere snowy come back and post a snow report of your own and we'll all love you very much
There's definitely a big difference. I'd used whatever the hire shop gave me for a while then had some volkl racetiger sc given. I couldn't believe how fast they changed direction! I could just about handle them earlier in the day and was pulling the best lean angles I've ever done but later on when the legs were flagging I was all over the place, catching edges left,right and centre due to them being stiffer and less forgiving than I was used to. I then went for some middle ground and bought some 2nd hand k2 impacts which, according to lads I ski with have really brought my skiing on.
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 You know it makes sense.
You know it makes sense.
My advice would be to opt for the second highest option and go to the hire shop when it is quiet (yes I know that's sometimes not possible). If the assistant is not rushed off their feet they will listen to what you actually tell them about your skiing ability and what you actually want, eg to improve your turns, to carve and cruise on blues and reds etc. The other bit of advice would be to not go for a quirky option or worry about the manufacturer too much. A few years back I rented these shovel fronted Salomon things, which were fine, but took some getting used to. You don't see them now...
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 Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
I say there is a big difference, give it a try.
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 Poster: A snowHead
Poster: A snowHead
Wow - thanks for all the opinions so far.

Perhaps I misled you on the way I ski. I am certainly not slow. I love carving turns as fast as I can - I just don't ski straight down the fall line as some people do. I still get to the bottom pretty damned quick and spend way, way more time on lifts and in queues than actually skiing. Whilst I said that "I wouldn't win any awards for style", in my own head I am an excellent skier and as good as I would ever want to be. I ski purely for pleasure - but I'm tight fisted so I shop around for the best deals. I'm happy to pay more but only if I thought I would get a better experience as a result - hence the question.

As for lessons... it's been a very, very long time since I took any. I took them for my first 4 years but stopped because in all but the very first "learn to ski" year the instructors were just glorified ski guides with little, if any, actual instruction taking place - and there is an awful lot of standing around which is not why I go skiing. I know this hasn't changed because my son started skiing in 2010 at the age of 6 and had lessons for 3 years and, just like me, got taught pretty much nothing after the first year. I know because I watched them. His subsequent years of full days skiing with me have made him into a very confident skier that is now just starting to challenge me (which is what I want him to do). Like me, he improves simply by copying other people - I have only ever provided a few tips for him.

@DrLawn: I'll certainly look out for a ski test tent but I don't remember ever seeing one before - if I had I would definitely have tried it as this question has been on my mind for many years now.

@Scarpa: The only item on your list that I can relate to is "the wanting to go faster but can't" but that is only when the slope is almost horizontal - or slushy. In these situations, I still keep up with the rest so it is not the skis holding me back. The rest of the list hasn't been a problem for me.

@Gämsbock: What? Who's @TTT? and I want half of the money if any is being handed out.


On balance, I'll probably stick to the cheap ones again this year but if I get a quiet time at the hire shop and their English is good then I might ask them about the difference in their skis with a view to a free trial.

_______
FYI: I am 55 years old, 6'1" (186cm) and around 90kg. When I started skiing in 1988, I was given 195cm straight skis, over the years the skis they have been giving me have been getting progressively shorter and at some point during the 90s the curved skis appeared (the ones skinny in the middle and fat at both ends) and I was dropped to 170cm. I've tried longer and shorter since but am happiest with 170s.
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 Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Kowal.Ski wrote:
the instructors were just glorified ski guides with little, if any, actual instruction taking place - and there is an awful lot of standing around which is not why I go skiing.

Kowal.Ski wrote:
just like me, got taught pretty much nothing after the first year.


You've definitely been to the wrong ski schools, especially if a 6 year old learnt nothing after the first year!! Have you considered that there may be some link to:

Kowal.Ski wrote:
I'm tight fisted so I shop around for the best deals.


The following comments scream "GET A LESSON" to me!! And if you're too arrogant to get yourself one, then do the decent thing and get your son one!

Kowal.Ski wrote:
in my own head I am an excellent skier

Kowal.Ski wrote:
Like me, he improves simply by copying other people - I have only ever provided a few tips for him.


_______

FYI: 42, started skiing in 1986, ex-instructor, and STILL LEARNING!!!
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 Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
I found it an amazing step up when moving from economy skis to the better ones, but I also appreciate its not for everyone. This is a ski forum so by nature we are all pushing for improved equipment or lessons , but many of my friends are happy with comfy boots and bouncy skis, and although like skiing, don't care about any technical aspect, after all if you can go fast , stop and not fall over you have it covered, right?
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@Kowal.Ski, as a sceptic myself about ski technical matters, I must say I notice a big difference between basic and premium rental skis. Much greater precision, stability, feeling in control and coping well with different conditions on premium skis. Well worth the extra cost in my opinion.
Also, after first few years, I went over 20 years without a lesson. Then last March I had 5 half days small group lessons with a very good instructor. I really enjoyed and benefited from them.
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 Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Re: Dashed:
Quote:

You've definitely been to the wrong ski schools


As far as I am aware there has only ever been one choice of ski school at each resort I (and my son) have taken lessons at. There has been no opportunity to shop around. The only choice is group lessons or individual lessons. We have only ever had group lessons which is what my comments were based on. I would sincerely hope that individual lessons offered some instruction but I have no experience with them.

To back up my opinion (of group lessons): My wife started skiing at the same time I did but unfortunately did her shins in with poorly fitting boots on the first day so didn't really pick up the basics during that all important first week. For the following 2 years she had lessons (in a lower group than me) and fell further and further behind - because of the lack of instruction. For our 4th and final year of lessons, she lied and said she had never skied before and got herself into the absolute beginners class again and finally learnt the basics of skiing. It is abundantly clear from this that she wasn't being taught in years 2 and 3.

More recently than this, my son mastered parallel turns by the end of his very first week of group skiing lessons. In his second and third year he reverted back to snow plough turns because they were easier and nobody was making sure he did any otherwise (like they did in his first week). He can still do parallels, but bad habits are hard to shift and, even now, I occasionally have to remind him to do parallel turns. I now sincerely regret him taking his 2nd & 3rd year of (group) lessons because he did not progress during them but if anything regressed from the standard he reached during his first week. He improved dramatically in the years that followed without lessons.

Quote:

The following comments scream "GET A LESSON" to me!!


It is a shame that you didn't continue my quote to the end where it said "[I'm] as good as I would ever want to be". I don't want to take part in competitive skiing. I just want to enjoy myself and I am already perfectly skilled at doing that. I'm actually am still learning but through practice on the slopes.

Anyway, back to the subject of ski hire...

@blahblahblah:
Quote:

after all if you can go fast , stop and not fall over you have it covered, right?


Spot on. My feelings exactly!
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Kowal.Ski wrote:

Quote:

after all if you can go fast , stop and not fall over you have it covered, right?


Spot on. My feelings exactly!


I don't want to see this becoming a mud-flinging contest (Snowheads is supposed to be friendly) but I have an inclination to actually agree with @Dashed

I have seen too many people get 'quite good', too quickly. Using their own adaptation of what they believe to be is the correct technique. Poor technique can actually allow you to ski quickly and enjoyable, in a technique which feels correct and the same as what others are doing.


There are a few things which jump out about the problems here:

1. Poor technique can work fine when you are on good snow in good conditions. The trouble is if, through maybe bad weather / poor visibility / etc you end up on bad snow - maybe ice, or deep pow off piste, or something... bad snow is not as forgiving of bad technique as good snow is, and you will find yourself in difficulties that you do not know how to get out of.

2. Poor technique can be physically exhausting, whilst good technique can allow you to ski longer with less fatigue. You may find skiing tiring now - it may be that your technique causes that, and with better technqiue, you can stay out all day and come back feeling better than before.

3. Short skis... it's quite possible that you like short skis because again, IMO, they compensate better for poor technique than big skis. Small skis are easier to turn flat, and easier to bend fully, than a long ski. My proper skis are 190 (I'd go bigger if they were common) but I love riding around on 172s or 177s for a couple of hours just for a laugh, because they're fun to chuck through turns and pull repeated short turns on. But you can't carve properly on a ski which is too short.

4. They say 'you don't know what you don't know'. You might think you are content now, but learning to be better might open a door that you didn't realise was closed. Why not give it a shot, and see what happens?



___________
FYI: 28 Y.O, started skiing 2012, not less than a month per year, and a convert from being quite content with hoofing it down mountains at 100kmph with no real technique or co-ordination; to finding more fun in slowing down a bit, getting some proper technique going, and discovering the joy of skiing really well as opposed to just really fast. So it's not all about how old you are or how long you've been doing it.
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 Then you can post your own questions or snow reports...
Then you can post your own questions or snow reports...
Above all remember it's meant to be fun.

I had some terrible skis and boots on a weekend trip to Tignes. They were free and it was the end of April, great weekend in sunny hot conditions for buttons. Given how slushy it got it did not matter, but twin tips sure chuck up a plume!!
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 After all it is free Go on u know u want to!
After all it is free Go on u know u want to!
I'm glad you asked this as I'm in the same boat. Have hired the 'Beginner' or 'Bronze' or whatever name they choose at the hire shop for the basic skis every time I've been skiing. Not had a lesson for some time either. This year I've decided to try the next level up of skis, bought my own boots and have been going to the chill factore to perfect my skiing. I'm also planning on having one or two lessons with a private instructor on the first day or so of my holiday to see if I can pick anything up. Will be interesting to see what the 'better' skis feel like.
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Jord92 wrote:
I'm also planning on having one or two lessons with a private instructor on the first day or so of my holiday to see if I can pick anything up.

You might be better to leave the lesson until the second or third day - once you've got your ski legs back and got used to the skis.
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@Jord92 coincidence that it is also this year that I was toying with breaking from the cheapest skis.

Over the years, I have chosen what was always described as "beginner"/Bronze skis (despite my vintage) but over the last 2 or 3 years I noticed that some of the hire shops have "rebranded" their cheapest skis as "I ski at a reduced price regardless of my level.". This is obviously in recognition of people like me.
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With the bronze / beginner etc argument, I'd go with what a lot of people have said which is that every time I've hired, I've been given something based entirely on my height (and if I'm lucky, weight) and not what I've paid for.

I'm 6'7" and over 100kg and I've still had a shop trying to issue me with some 170 skis that were as bendy as a plastic ruler. So sometimes you don't even get that much.

Most of the rental shops I've been to just seem to buy a job lot of one of this season's middle-of-the-range all-mountain skis and give them everyone, differentiating only by height. If you're lucky they might have 2 models... one for when it's snowing and the other for when it's hard. But I have a fairly low opinion of hire shops knowing the difference.

So yeah I would be inclined to stay with the cheap option in any case.
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 And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
I really don't like the bottom range skis. They may turn easily but they flap about at speed and have no stability. I had a pair of rental skis in Courmayeur that really dampened my holiday because of this. Some rental shops cater for the bog standard holiday market and don't have much choice anyway. If I'm not using my own skis I'd pay up and rent something I'll actually enjoy.

I get the impression our OP is either an SBS or trolling for reaction... wink
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So if you're just off somewhere snowy come back and post a snow report of your own and we'll all love you very much
Well in march this year 3 of us were in bansko (so "interesting" ranges of equipment stocked) we all booked the "gold" level ski.

I ended up with a mid range head model, which worked great for me, I had a blast, one of our guys ended up with the exact same model of beginner skis I'd used on my first ever trip several years ago, he did a few runs and went straight back to change them, and the 3rd guy got given a set of piste racing skis that he couldn't handle so had to go back and change them also

So with that I'd say it does make a difference, however what you book is in no means what you will Receive, I have never seen the ski shops pay much attention to your booking details, just check to see they have a record of your payment, then give you something roughly suited to your height unless you pipe up with a request for something you've seen there
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 You know it makes sense.
You know it makes sense.
Locating the right ski hire shop is another skill to learn, the good ones will certainly look after you and respect your requests if you are paying for the good stuff.
But again it helps to know what you want even if just some research on here to arm yourself with a few specific make and models to ask for.
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 Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
It's hard to compare like with like, but in this instance I'm pretty sure that there is a significant difference between the cheapest and the most expensive. Generally I think the more expensive hire skis are 'better', but that's not to say they will definitely be better for you (or me). Try a pair for a day and see if you feel they are worth the extra. Personally, I always go for the gold option as opposed to bronze, silver or platinum. i.e. one from top.
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 Poster: A snowHead
Poster: A snowHead
IME cheaper/budget option is usualy entry/mid level skis AND better skis from 1-2-3 years ago.

Would agree with @essex, not all hire shops are equal.
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 Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
@queen bodecia
Quote:

I get the impression our OP is either an SBS or trolling for reaction...

I'm guessing OP =Original Poster. No idea what an SBS is (google didn't help) but you are right I am after a reaction - but only to the original question regarding ski hire.

I did not intend or want the discussion to go off topic - I only provided details about myself to help with the original question. I feel a little out of my league in this forum as I'm just a recreational skier who loves skiing but I have found my answer and will for now continue with the "economy" skis but I will pay a lot more attention to what else is available to see if there is any difference.
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 Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
It comes across, to me anyway, as a little parsimonious spending a fair amount on a ski holiday then skimping on the only things that connect you, the skier, to the snow.

A bit like putting cheap Chinese tyres on my Dax Rush.

Surely, if you ask the question then the answer is to rent different skis each day from a hire shop and work it out for yourself. Then maybe kick yourself for not doing so years ago.

I have my own skis and have found a huge difference between my first cheapies and the latest ones. Possibly buyer confirmation - but who cares.
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@emwmarine, OK, what,is or was a dax rush?
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Lotus 7 look alike with more power. Think Caterham.

Anyway, it's important to have nice looking skis when you stop for a coffee or lunch. Being heavy and edges grabbing the snow is a small price to pay for good looking gear. You don't buy a load of spyder gear and Lange boots to stick any old crap on you feet.
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Interesting point from @Norrin Radd. It had never occurred to me to be concerned what skis look like. I'm shallow enough not to want something looking ridiculously cheap. e.g. Mono-colour, no graphics or covered in bits of duct tape, but beyond that I really couldn't care. I've also no idea whether Spyder gear is supposed to be better than Tog24 or whether Lange are good or bad. Most rental boots I've had have been Lange, so I just presumed they were a standard/budget brand.

Do many people remotely care what their skis/boots look like? To me it's a bit like caring what colour a screwdriver is.
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 Then you can post your own questions or snow reports...
Then you can post your own questions or snow reports...
Well it is interesting as it's a huge market. I assume people try stuff in and how it looks is part of the buying process. Things are skewed a bit on here as we have s high number of gaffer tapers, if it does it's good enough people. Quite a large group of people buy kit based on brand, perception of quality and an assumption of implication that better kit implies a better skier.
Nobody buys a Moncler or Canada goose jacket because it outperforms something else.
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 After all it is free Go on u know u want to!
After all it is free Go on u know u want to!
Well it is interesting as it's a huge market. I assume people try stuff in and how it looks is part of the buying process. Things are skewed a bit on here as we have s high number of gaffer tapers, if it does it's good enough people. Quite a large group of people buy kit based on brand, perception of quality and an assumption of implication that better kit implies a better skier.
Nobody buys a Moncler or Canada goose jacket because it outperforms something else.
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
Quote:

It comes across, to me anyway, as a little parsimonious spending a fair amount on a ski holiday then skimping on the only things that connect you, the skier, to the snow.


I quite agree @emwmarine - hence the original question. I'm quite happy to spend extra but only for a better experience. If it made no difference then I'd rather the money was in my pocket. If I ever feel that the skis don't feel right, I get them switched - but this has only ever happened twice.

As for caring what they look like or whether they match my gear, I'm with @foxtrotzulu.

And while I'm writing, I'd like to modify one of my earlier comments...

Quote:

"after all if you can go fast , stop and not fall over you have it covered, right? "


Spot on. My feelings exactly!


I actually think that being able to turn skillfully should feature prominently in this list. You have to be able to do that and it is what I enjoy doing the most.
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 Ski the Net with snowHeads
Ski the Net with snowHeads
@Norrin Radd,
Quote:

Quite a large group of people buy kit based on brand, perception of quality and an assumption of implication that better kit implies a better skier.
But all that rather assumes that people look at each other's skis and say 'Ooooh, Look! He's got a pair of last year's Rossignol Skyd Marx'. Apart from the odd ski nerd, do many people in the real world do this?


Quote:

Nobody buys a Moncler or Canada goose jacket because it outperforms something else.
Indeed, but those are meant to be fashion items whereas to me a pair of skis is much closer to a screwdriver/car jack in terms of how fashionable I imagine it should be.
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