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Clothing tech query

 Poster: A snowHead
Poster: A snowHead
@ulmerhutte, Perfect summary Smile
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 Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
@ulmerhutte, a nice quote, but is based on the very basic assumption that £=quality. That's not to say that it isn't a good indicator, just that things that are cheap can still be decent quality, a prime example being the Aldi/Lidl stuff.
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 Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
johnE wrote:
@Scarpa,
Quote:

ski touring at night in 80km winds.


There must be a good story there - please tell


It was just a couple of years ago doing the full moon tour up Forstau. The wind was strong enough that an 8 foot section of tree blew onto the middle of the piste. The trees were whipping back and forth and eyelashes and beards had quite an ice covering by the time we arrived at the top hut.
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 You need to Login to know who's really who.
You need to Login to know who's really who.
Thank you for all your contributions and. Very interesting to read the replies.
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 Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
When next in Aspen looking to spend some $$$ on clothing, i recommend a looksee at this place - bought my visor helmet there last year.
http://www.stefankaelin.com
Very Happy Very Happy
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 You'll need to Register first of course.
You'll need to Register first of course.
I try to buy expensive things cheaply. I have got cheap things (for skiing and otherwise) in the past but tend to find that they don't actually last that long before becoming less warm/waterproof or the material wearing thin in key places like cuffs on trousers.

I tend to have several brands that fit me well, some of these are generally the more expensive ones

TKMaxx has been a good source but as above, not recently. Amazon is quite good at times, Oakley Airbrake goggles for £50 and a Haglofs insulated midlayer reduced from £180 to £60 spring to mind. If it is not 50%+ off then I don't generally buy it but then I do waste a lot of time looking for such items that I do like!
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 Then you can post your own questions or snow reports...
Then you can post your own questions or snow reports...
@mmgg1988, Me too. Find quality winter gear and then buy it in summer sales Toofy Grin

BTW - the Dare2B jackets I had were from their top end range, very good quality.
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 After all it is free Go on u know u want to!
After all it is free Go on u know u want to!
As well as what everyone else has said (all very valid points)...

I just bought a fancy new jacket because I wanted one. After years of skiing in borrowed jackets, or perfectly good bargain jackets from TK maxx or the charity shop, I wanted a jacket in my choice of colour.

Sometimes people just buy things because they want them and can afford them.[/i]
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 You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
The adage "you get what you pay for" doesn't quite work as at the "top end", the Arc'teryx Alpha SV (RRP £600*) is obviously not going to twice as good as a £300 technical jacket. However, a top of the range Dare2B jacket with a non-branded proprietary membrane costs as much as a North Face/Mountain Equipment/etc jacket with a non-branded proprietary membrane and a jacket from either brand will be just as suitable for piste skiing as the other, the purchaser of one will be pleases to not be a brand snob and the other will be please to be sporting a brand they associate with.

As much as these items of clothing are expensive, they are using expensive fabrics, have a lot of effort go into the cut, hoods etc and are made in comparably small production runs. The mark up is minimal and "soft" products (T-shirts/shirts/caps/trousers) etc is where the margin is made.

Admittedly I come from a climbers background and sitting belaying in sprindrift for 4 hours in January in Scotland generally asks a little more of your clothes than piste skiing so I appreciate quality clothing that keeps me dry and warm.

*obviously it has higher R&D/production costs as it's made in Canada and is where or the time and effort is spent on new ideas/technologies but it must still be a loss leader in order to maintain the high-end image of the brand.
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 Ski the Net with snowHeads
Ski the Net with snowHeads
My hardshell certainly wasn't cheap... but I wear it pretty much all year walking and as a normal rain jacket during summer / winter so 'per use' it is actually one of the cheapest.

Would a cheaper one have done the same job...? From experience, actually no.

It has exactly the right vents, exactly the right pockets in the right places, and the right level of adjustment for the hood to fit over a helmet or just my moderate bonce when walking to work or up a hill.

Definitely 'best in class' IMV. I will also definitely kill it at some point over the next five years, and have to hope they don't change anything, because I would buy it again straight away.
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 snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
@Badbobby, buy what you want, if it looks good and feels good then who cares. Given you've asked the question, it's all about you, who you are, what you like and value.

Everyone has their own experiences but it's highly personal, the mrs needs loads of warmth, I don't. I like Scandinavian design so brands which have that look I like, so does the mrs. It's the same with anything, why spend £900 on a piece of nice furniture?

If you've been doing the same thing for many years stick with it. I've never had anything stolen, damaged or even close, that said I'm careful, not a heavy apres go'er so I'm not regularly in those situations... if you are, don't buy expensive. I have a nice pair of shoes, I never go to bars in them but do go to restaurants in them. Risk management

It's All about you, from your posts I would say don't bother, you're not a brand chaser, you don't see what expensive can get you in terms of performance (or don't care), and you damage and lose your clothes... (or someone else does). Puzzled
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 And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
If you can't afford the more expensive options then the question is moot.
If you can afford more expensive things, your choice is likely not made on cost alone.

So why do people spend so much money on shells, or other gubbins ... Educate a non believer!

If you find no problem understanding the utility of expensive gear for those who work in the snow teaching kids, clearly that will also work for everyone else.

You'd likely point out that industry people tend not to pay full retail for their gear and may get it for free. That's true, but if you want the quality they enjoy, obviously it's going to sell at a premium, and as above, if you can pay it, then you probably will.

A true cheapskate would never use dedicated ski gear, which you can't sensibly make use of for the rest of your year.

Other thoughts:
  • Burton has multiple ranges from cheap fashion" gear intended to be quickly thrown away as fashion changes, through to robust gear for serious use which changes less quickly over time.
  • Bogner are targeting a different market from Patagonia etc. Bogner is probably bought by people with ugly mechanical watches which keep poor time. You don't see much of it in the back country.
  • You probably don't get a lifetime guarantee with TKMax.
  • Decent gear doesn't "get wet" and zippers etc are generally much more robust than on cheap gear
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 So if you're just off somewhere snowy come back and post a snow report of your own and we'll all love you very much
So if you're just off somewhere snowy come back and post a snow report of your own and we'll all love you very much
philwig wrote:
.......A true cheapskate would never use dedicated ski gear, which you can't sensibly make use of for the rest of your year..............


Try living on the UK South Coast, even from May to December, and not just the winter, and walking dogs everyday and you'll soon find your jacket / layers being used, in fact the jackets tend to often get more exposed to wet weather in the UK than five months in the mountains!

I don't bother bringing my ski pants back with me only a very light shell pant and have a dedicated pair of Paramo pants which I leave in the UK.
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 You know it makes sense.
You know it makes sense.
I think you're saying that gear designed for powder skiing is better for the UK climate that stuff designed for the UK climate, which contradicts my own view but there it is.

The suggestion that the South Coast has particularly harsh weather is also interesting.
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 Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
@philwig, we get our fair share of wind and rain, but thankfully not as much as oooppp North especially in the summer months Toofy Grin

Last two seasons I've been using Paramo jackets - and Paramo designed their kit for the likes of the wet lake district and then introduced jackets better suited for mountain conditions i.e colder

After a while even the most expensive of gear will get wet even Paramo which is produced by Nik of Nik Wax and hence you have to reproof it.

Paramo actually has a lifetime guarantee!
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 Poster: A snowHead
Poster: A snowHead
I'll concede that my quicksilver trousers have seen the zip pocket fail and the jacket has an unacceptable number of inside pockets!
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 Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
So, on the subject of tech, where do we stand on North Face clothing?

I have recently found out that I can get a decent discount on the gear.
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 Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
@Badbobby, ski in the rain in Scotland in cheap outer layers, or -20 in a gale then +20 in the spring and you'll soon understand why folk pay a bit more for outer layers!
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@Badbobby, It depends on the NF range. The Summit Series stuff is top end stuff.
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 Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Quote:

Have you ever skied when it's been close to +20 degrees?


I have. Why do you need expensive gear for that? A cheap pair of shorts and a t-shirt. Sorted.
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You'll need to Register first of course.
PowderAdict wrote:
@Badbobby, It depends on the NF range. The Summit Series stuff is top end stuff.


Excuse my ignorance, but what makes it top end?
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 Then you can post your own questions or snow reports...
Then you can post your own questions or snow reports...
goretex is very overated in my opinion, there are lots of cheaper just as good waterproof membranes out there, they just do the publicity thing very good,
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 After all it is free Go on u know u want to!
After all it is free Go on u know u want to!
goretex is very overated and overpriced in my opinion, there are lots of cheaper just as good waterproof membranes out there, they just do the publicity thing very good,
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 You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
@compostcorner, more like; they were the first to develop it and built their brand while the patent lasted.
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 Ski the Net with snowHeads
Ski the Net with snowHeads
@compostcorner, but their guarantee is second to none and one reason I'll spend extra on Goretex.
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 snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
Quote:

Excuse my ignorance, but what makes it top end?


same as for all brands the quality of materials, construction and functional cut
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 And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
So i thought that I would update to say that, having been way too hot in the March sun recently, I've seen the sale at North Face and have caved...! I also have been doing a bit more off piste and getting hot and bothered.

Currently awaiting the NFZ shell jacket, trousers and some new gloves. I'd still be reluctant to commit at full price, but at 50% off it seems a fairly decent price. I guess i'll know that they're like in due course...
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 So if you're just off somewhere snowy come back and post a snow report of your own and we'll all love you very much
So if you're just off somewhere snowy come back and post a snow report of your own and we'll all love you very much
@Badbobby, sounds like a decent buy. A good shell won't breathe properly though without an effective base/mid layer. Perhaps ditch the cotton and get a set of merino bases. Only need one set; you can wear it for 2 straight weeks without (much) pong...
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