 Poster: A snowHead
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Hoping you good folk can help me.
Having been bitten by the Skiing bug earlier this year, (30 years in the making) I'm desperate to go back this year.
Can't really do next year as son has exams and what not.
How risky is it to book a European Resort around Christmas, Dec 25 - Dec 31.
It seems that the last 2 years have been pretty poor, and I'm not sure if I risk it, or can I choose a resort whereby the ski making facilities are good enough??
Skill wise, I'm happy on blues, would be going avec famile, 2 kids, 12 & 15.
I've been looking at a few different resorts and wondered what peoples thoughts were on them, and what the snow situation was like last year?
Val Thorens
Alpe d’Huez
Val D’Isere / Tignes
Flaine
Saas Fee
Obergurgl
Thanks
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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@cisco43, Sorry to hear you were bitten by the skiing bug — once it gets you it never goes away — and it's going to cost you a lot of money! 
Unfortunately, recent annual snowfalls at any given resort, are not much indication of what might happen this season. But it is possible to get a more long-term view of your prospects here, where you can view base depth in DEC/JAN for previous seasons:
http://www.onthesnow.co.uk/northern-alps/val-thorens/historical-snowfall.html?&y=2014&q=base
So some resort like Val Thorens/Tignes and Val D'Isere look good; whilst others such as Flaine and Obergurgl are not so good for DEC/JAN.
Note also that both Val Thorens/Tignes and Val D'Isere have excellent snow-making, and very high, and have glaciers you can ski on.
There is a Snowheads "Bash" (trip) to Tignes on the 3rd December, and so we are all praying for snow!
In 2016/17, Xmas Day & New Years Day both fall on a Sunday; so that has meant that tour operators and accommodation providers are offering a mix of dates for ski holidays over that period. Some will be perhaps 10 days in length. Historically, most bookings are SAT-SAT, and looking at Skyscanner, a return flight LON-GVA is around £60 plus baggage on 24th Dec-31st Dec. But that would mean you traveling on Xmas Eve and New Years Eve.
Given these quirky dates, and the low Pound against the Euro, I don't think you will have an issue waiting until you can see what the snow is like and then booking much closer to the end of December. Indeed, you might find some great deals with the tour operators trying to get stuff shifted at the last moment. In the past I have got fantastic prices doing this, and ended-up in shared chalets which have been great. Don't be afraid to bargain hard! Have your credit card ready and say you will book today if they give you price X.
Resorts such as Val Thorens have so much accommodation, you will be able to find something. And it's then easy to arrange flights and transfers. Try www.findtransfers.com for the best prices.
Whatever you do — have a great Christmas and New Year, and have fun on the slopes. 
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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cisco43, as PeDaSp says, its a gamble.
Back in 2011 i was in exactly your shoes with son and Uni exams.
I had booked the week before Xmas in La Plagne.
Come December 1st there was no snow - not a flake anywhere.
I very nearly told son it was all off.
December 5th the snow started, and didn't stop.
The week we were there, we had almost as much exercise digging the car out each day than actually skiing.
Move forward to 2015.
In October/November La Plagne - like many resorts - was covered in lovely deep snow. Wonderful.
Then in December it all started to melt: the sun came out, it warmed up, clouds with snow went elsewhere.
The week before Xmas was just about ok coz few people, but when the Xmas crowds arrived skiing stopped being fun.
So this year? Who knows. Do you feel lucky . . . ?
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@cisco43, welcome to SHs. Not much to add to the above - Xmas week is really early season and even as far back as 1933 Kitzbuhel were not advertising it as a winter sports week...
The stats available from @PeDaSp's site above are interesting but rather misleading - e.g. from the looks of things, Chamonix's base seems to be measured at village level when the vast majority of the skiing is above 1,800m...
While you could book flights to somewhere offering a great deal of choice - e.g. Geneva, Innsbruck, Munich - and leave accommodation to the last minute - the trickier thing is that if the snow is scarce, there will be lots of people chasing it.
Tricky.
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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Have you considered going to the Dolomites? As far as I know the area is covered by snow cannons. Last year was a bit of a bad one early on but skiing was still possible.
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You'll need to Register first of course.
You'll need to Register first of course.
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@cisco43, Avoid Flaine like the plague. Skied in the rain there early Jan 2 yrs ago. Weather was so wet they closed - still have not processed my refund for lost day's skiing despite my filling in all forms TWICE 😡 Go somewhere with glacier.
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As many of the SH family know I am looking at Xmas week and have been tracking a few chalets. Mainly in Val Thorens / Les Arc. As an example a place I am looking at in Les Arc 2000 was £770 2 weeks ago, today its down to £566 with all rooms still available. Just need to sit tight and see if the snow comes.
Val T will be busy as its one of the highest but if the snow does come and places like Les Arc get a good base then you could get a bargain and it not be over crowded.
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You can't take a single experience, @Snowsartre, and suggest it's indicative of normal conditions...
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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I've skied Christmas week for most of the last 20 years, mainly in the high French resorts of Trois Vallees, Space Killy, Paradiski. Some years the snow has been great, other years the snow has been poor, but there has always been plenty of skiing, especially if you are looking to be on piste for the entire week. The last three years have been poor, but that's no specific indication of what this year will be like. My advice would be for whatever country you choose head to one of their higher resorts (therefore better chance of natural snow) which has a good network of snow cannons covering lots of their pistes (generally the larger resorts have made the investment in lots of snow-making).
If you are tied to school holidays, don't discount skiing at Easter. It can be excellent.
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I go every year at xmas for the last 10/11years. Not had no snow yet! ...and that includes 3 notoriously poor years.
Snow reports will be poor in advance. They are every year and people start panicing. There's often little snow until 2 weeks before.
My personal xmas booking rules are...
Book somewhere high. 1800m if possible. There's a lot better chance of snow.
Book somewhere with a good early snow record. But not just look at the last couple of years and even then you might get lucky with somewhere without a good early record (I've been to Sauze on 2 poor years and had good conditions).
Book somewhere with some north+south facing slopes. If there's early snow then none the north slopes will hold it longer but if it's good conditions south facing is nice to ski in the Sun, especially if it's very cold.
Book somewhere big. If conditions are poor then there'll still be more to ski than a small resort.
Book as late as you dare.You'll have more idea where has some snow and you'llprobably get a deal. Don't leave it too late for NewYear though as that tends to be popular and deals dry up sooner
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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| Quote: |
If you are tied to school holidays, don't discount skiing at Easter. It can be excellent.
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This. If you are only going to do one week, Easter is better for a whole range of reasons and if you aim for a resort such as Val Thorens you should have no worries about snow.
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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Also, everybody should be made to read the excellent post above by Jonpim and solemnly swear "I will neither be miserable nor stupidly euphoric about the state of snow on 1 December and whilst admiring how pretty early November snow looks on the autum foliage at 1350m I will desist from predicting the significance of this for cover in mid February". 
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@under a new name, Triumph of hope over experience? Not likely, sadly. I will never return to Flaine (not just because snow was crap) and think the OP has much better options as outlined in the thread above.
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You know it makes sense.
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@pam w, so true
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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So, @Snowsartre, you take a single datum and treat it as normal? I mean, whatever, your choice, but it's not very rational.
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Poster: A snowHead
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Well, firstly can I say a hearty thank you to all who replied.
Excellent advice, tips and information.
Will take me a bit of time to process it all, but I feel confident that we will go, I just have to decide whether to book now or try and hold off till last minute.
I normally don't have any issue with last minute as a lot of our holidays are booked, literally days / even hours before we leave...but trying to cut out that bit of stress / uncertainty, although, with the uncertainty that's going to remain in this instance.
Val Thorens/Tignes and Val D'Isere are probably top of my list now, and maybe some others if they are high, but it would need to have snow making facilities.
I guess if I leave it late and flights were expensive, I could always drive.
I'm pretty good at picking up bargains but normally DIY it as sadly don't have the funds to use the Tour Ops, but I will keep an eye on their prices and see how the land lies.
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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@cisco43, Most places these days have snow making - but that's not a great deal of use if it's not cold enough... which happens.
The other thing to bear in mind is that high can also be windy and you can often be above the trees, which isn't so great in bad weather.
But you do have to do something!
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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@cisco43, it's not clear from your OP - are you travelling alone?
If you are DIYing and flying the thing to sort out is the flights first. Exact destination and accommodation can be sorted out nearer the time.
We switched from Les 7 Laux to Tignes Val Claret in one of the poor years. There will always be skiing there. Also in Paradiski.
From the sounds of it you are a second week skier so the fact that a lot lower runs are closed or that there is no off piste won't be an issue.
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
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Used to go every xmas.. Stopped 7 years ago due to other factors, but had snow every year.. Lowest snow was in val gardena, otherwise oburgurgle was good, solden brilliant, sass fee was a let down as a lot of it was closed and its a smallish resort anyway, la plage was ok but a lot of the bars were closed on an evening or weren't ready to serve beer , la tania low snow and very quiet.. If i was to go again at xmas id do solden
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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If it's the only time you can go this season, just do it. Choose a high resort preferably with a glacier and you should be ok for snow. As above, if it turns out to be another slow start to a season, such resorts may get very busy over holidays, but you can't have everything. I would also recommend going to a bigger resort which is more likely to have other activities in case of abysmal weather or poor skiing/lack of snow, these resorts normally also have more extensive terrain to help with crowds, even in poor conditions more slopes are likely to be open. If you are only starting check the piste maps of resorts you will be considering: you want blue slopes at altitude. If they are all towards the bottom of the mountain they will likely be closed if December is poor. But it may turn out snowy too.
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You'll need to Register first of course.
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There's 4 of us
Flying would be No 1 Choice
but Driving is an option
I did find some v good cheap flights, so I'm all confused again as to whether to book now or wait.
I have no experience of Snow Making, so hadn't thought about the temperature aspect, d'oh...
Wind I can put up with...or maybe I'll be eating my words at some point
We went to Oslo in Jan, & Megeve, End of March
Had a thoroughly great time in both, bar the odd, 'this is too damn difficult' at the beginning, so my ski experience is limited,
but equally, I'm quite easy, if conditions aren't ideal, I'm happy to make the best of it.
Just as long as I'm not trying to ski on grassy mud
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| pam w wrote: |
| Also, everybody should be made to read the excellent post above by Jonpim and solemnly swear "I will neither be miserable nor stupidly euphoric about the state of snow on 1 December and whilst admiring how pretty early November snow looks on the autum foliage at 1350m I will desist from predicting the significance of this for cover in mid February". |
Haha, as if that's ever going to happen!
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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| cisco43 wrote: |
There's 4 of us
Flying would be No 1 Choice
but Driving is an option
I did find some v good cheap flights, so I'm all confused again as to whether to book now or wait. |
If you want to book each part of your holiday separately then buy your flights asap as they will increase in price. You can then book the accommodation. When you book your accommodation will depend on if it is high season, whether you want something specific and what type of accommodation you want. Because I book apartments directly via local agencies or owners which aren't likely to rise or fall in price I just book shortly after I have booked my travel (in my case because we drive that is a tunnel of ferry crossing).
| cisco43 wrote: |
I have no experience of Snow Making, so hadn't thought about the temperature aspect, d'oh...
Wind I can put up with...or maybe I'll be eating my words at some point
We went to Oslo in Jan, & Megeve, End of March
Had a thoroughly great time in both, bar the odd, 'this is too damn difficult' at the beginning, so my ski experience is limited,
but equally, I'm quite easy, if conditions aren't ideal, I'm happy to make the best of it.
Just as long as I'm not trying to ski on grassy mud |
As another fella says where you stay doesn't necessarily have to be snow sure. A lot of villages you can upload and download from/to. As long as you have access to the altitude it's fine. There will be snow at 2000m (France) for sure - and below that they will use snow making to keep open vital links, etc as much as possible.
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Also, with you being new to it, you're perhaps less likely to be as disappointed as a more experienced skier who's had heaps of powder days. We went Xmas week to morzine last year and it was pretty bleak, yet we still skied every day and had a good time. Be back this year same time, hopefully with some more snow but it's a gamble, always a gamble!
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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| Quote: |
it's a gamble, always a gamble!
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That probably sums it up quite well
I certainly feel in a much better position now though, armed with all the good advice.
I haven't decided if I'll book now, or wait and see, I think it will depend if I find a stonking deal, but I'll make sure that it will be a high resort.
& yes, definitely not fussy, if it's white, or whiteish, I'm skiing on it 
Much appreciated for all the replies
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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My family have booked Chamonix for a week from New Years Eve, it will be epic.....
We booked it to kill a week post Christmas with the kids and as my wife can't ski at present due to a broken ankle, it's a calculated gamble at a much reduced price from the New Year trip last year. I also want to showcase the Chamonix Valley as a potential spot for a future property investment.
That said, I wouldn't normally touch anywhere without extensive skiing above say 1800m at Christmas or New Year. I have skied for many years over numerous weeks, so the gamble isn't quite so critical to me and if I end up doing a bit of hiking with the kids, then so be it.
Last year was really poor snow wise, we were in Courchevel just above 1850 but you could still ski down to 1550 on artificial snow. They do a great job of keeping the pistes going.
I would book high (1800m+) 3 Vallees and book early, I suspect that you won't regret it whatever happens.
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Adithorp said - I go every year at xmas for the last 10/11years. Not had no snow yet! ...and that includes 3 notoriously poor years
I have been to Tignes in Mid Dec for 12+years ( as well as being fortunate to do at least 4 trips each season) and there have been poor years and storms - but there has always been enough skiing and there have been some fantastic years.
Follow the advice go for the higher resorts.
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You know it makes sense.
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We've done Christmas in la plagne the last couple of years and had no problems. Staying in Belle plagne at 2050M means ski from the door with 100's km to go at.
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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Pisting up the Grands Montets this morning
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Poster: A snowHead
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Val d'Isere and Tignes have huge amounts of snow already. I would book whilst you can.
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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Still haven't booked, and annoyingly missed out on a couple of Great Deals
Although there are plenty of other high resorts, I'm mainly concentrating on Tignes & Val d'Isere, but edging slightly more towards Val Thorens.
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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We were in Val d'Isere last Christmas and the skiing was pretty good despite the poor start to the season. Off again on the 17th Dec. Always had plenty of snow in Espace Killy (sometimes too much!!)
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
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@bedrock barney, same here, plenty in the 3V to keep you busy last year. Few stones grinning through in places but not enough to spoil the trip.
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