 Poster: A snowHead
|
I've done around 30 weeks skiing since I started skiing 12 years ago. I'm okay, but I could definitely improve a lot.
In other outdoor sports (sailing, canoeing) I've found that to get to a skill level that I'm happy with I need to participate in the sport once a week for around two years.
So I'm considering if visiting a an indoor snow slope for weekly practice and occasional lessons would improve my skiing, by allowing me the regular practice that I've found helpful in other sports.
My concern is the gradient of the slope in a snow dome, would I just get really good at skiing green runs?
Have any Snowheads become great skiers by regular use of a snowdome between trips abroad?
|
|
|
|
|
|
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
|
|
@Oceanic, great no, better yes.
|
|
|
|
|
|
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
|
|
Get disciplined doing drills, skiing the crap down the edges and the ice in the middle, zipping what bumps form etc and you can get pretty good. You'll miss out on mountain tactics and terrain reading but I'd say you can do enough to move on significantly between winters. You'll need to find some good coaches to point you in the right direction however if you aren't going to waste a heap of time just bombing top to bottom.
|
|
|
|
|
|
You need to Login to know who's really who.
You need to Login to know who's really who.
|
|
I had great fun teaching myself to ski backwards in a dome. Now if I could only ski forwards.
|
|
|
|
|
|
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
|
I'm not sure about "great", and I only know about plastic. On plastic, you can become an expert. The first time I went heli-skiing in Canada a long time ago the locals asked me where I learned to ski, because they weren't used to Brits who could ski. "Manchester" was an answer they did not expect. Personally I don't know any Brit residents who can really ski or ride who didn't do their time on artificial surfaces. So I'd say it's pretty much essential unless you live at a ski resort.
I think you're right about the limitations of snow domes. Sure, you can carve them up and it's fun for a while, but it's a tiny bit of green run, the sort of thing you'd barely notice between the piste and the lift. I still prefer plastic for that reason: you can ride faster and the runs are steeper and there are fewer poor riders around to endanger you.
Plus that's a good point about skiing backwards. I lived in Finland and in Helsinki the slopes are way bigger than domes, but not hugely interesting after a while, so I learned to snowboard there.
|
|
|
|
|
|
You'll need to Register first of course.
You'll need to Register first of course.
|
| Hurtle wrote: |
| @Oceanic, great no, better yes. |
+1 Succinct words of wisdom. You will also be a lot poorer. You do need to have specific drills though.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
@Oceanic, dome or plastic, yes I think you can.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Well, you can certainly become much better. But how many of us have it within us to become "great"?
|
|
|
|
|
|
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
|
|
Joining a race club at a plastic slope might be worth exploring.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
@philwig, +1 plastic.
|
|
|
|
|
|
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
|
| Jake43 wrote: |
| You will also be a lot poorer. |
Not necesarily. Take advantage of membership discounts and off peak times.
Hemel offer an annual membership that gives 30% off for 130 pounds (save 11 a month and it pays for itself) - theres also a deal for super-snowheads that makes it a no-brainer to pay @admin first.
Then they do monthly passes over the summer from 59 (after discount about 40). Even April's was only 48 after discount and I'll have done 15 hours despite a week in Val Thorens mid month!
I also got an extra discount over the winter for having had a monthly pass most of the summer which meant that off peak weekend times (sat/sun eve) ended up about 20 for three hours.
So not as expensive as you might think...
|
|
|
|
|
|
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
|
@Oceanic, depends on your definition of "great".
fridge time must help. But being a great athlete at any sport requires time, coaching, fitness and conscious learning experience at increasing levels of difficulty (I think).
A fridge only goes so far with that...
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Under 18 -- yes.
Over 18 -- no.
|
|
|
|
|
|
You know it makes sense.
|
|
@Whitegold, nonsense. Though I would agree that drills are essential either way. Just trundling down the slope multiple times would be useless and boring.
|
|
|
|
|
|
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
|
|
@Hurtle, i think for once, @Whitegold's ill considered sputterings have a kernel of truth, although as usual that's about as much as you can sat, being generous. Great skiers don't spend their time in fridges. Age independent.
|
|
|
|
|
|
Poster: A snowHead
|
@under a new name, oh, sorry, I thought we'd abandoned greatness. 
|
|
|
|
|
|
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
|
@Hurtle, titter 
|
|
|
|
|
|
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
|
| philwig wrote: |
I'm not sure about "great", and I only know about plastic. On plastic, you can become an expert. The first time I went heli-skiing in Canada a long time ago the locals asked me where I learned to ski, because they weren't used to Brits who could ski. "Manchester" was an answer they did not expect. Personally I don't know any Brit residents who can really ski or ride who didn't do their time on artificial surfaces. So I'd say it's pretty much essential unless you live at a ski resort.
I think you're right about the limitations of snow domes. Sure, you can carve them up and it's fun for a while, but it's a tiny bit of green run, the sort of thing you'd barely notice between the piste and the lift. I still prefer plastic for that reason: you can ride faster and the runs are steeper and there are fewer poor riders around to endanger you.
Plus that's a good point about skiing backwards. I lived in Finland and in Helsinki the slopes are way bigger than domes, but not hugely interesting after a while, so I learned to snowboard there. |
Agreed. I grew up skiing on plastic, race training etc. I skied at Rossendale and other plastic slopes in the north twice a week throughout my teenage years and it took me from complete beginner to expert level during that period. At that time I was skiing on snow maybe 2 weeks a year maximum, but my technique was already pretty solid from all the regular practice and race training on plastic. Similar to philwig, I've also surprised local Canadians as a Brit who can actually ski a bit!
FFWD 30 years and I do occasionally ski at the MK snowdome over the summer to keep my eye in and I think you could improve your basic technique a lot if it's lacking to start with. Just being on skis every single week should make a big difference, particularly if you are stuck on the classic intermediate plateau. It get's over the obvious issue of having massive gaps between your skiing time.
|
|
|
|
|
|
You need to Login to know who's really who.
You need to Login to know who's really who.
|
@Oceanic, last September I began a 12 session (once a week for 3 months) instructor course at Hemel and it highlighted several bad habits that I'd developed over the years. They were so ingrained that it has taken some time to begin to undo them all. Doing additional practice alongside the Wednesday teachings and I found that my skiing when I went to Tignes in December and Cervinia in January had been transformed.
I've since done a further mountain ski course (with Hemel's Alpine Coaching) and am going to continue going to Hemel through this summer to practice those drills that I have learned. Until it becomes learned behaviour through repetition, it is a case of trying to remember and put into practice (or my case - forgetting and failing to put into practice).
Watching the ability of some of the racing youngsters at Hemel on a Monday evening - some of whom have never been to the mountains, I am very impressed at what can be achieved through regular instruction and practice at an indoor slope.
|
|
|
|
|
|
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
|
Well I started skiing at 10 on plastic, started racing and did so until late 20s. I still ski weekly in a dome and I can certainly hold my own on the piste - all my race team would be scooting off to race camps left right and centre and id still be beating them. So I'm going to say yes you can become a god on the piste, however...
I'm not so good off piste in comparison, and that you'll never replicate indoors or on plastic. But having only done 9 weeks on snow mainly in my later years that's hardly surprising.
Regardless to what dome/artificial haters say, any skiing is better than no skiing (assuming your not practicing poor technique).
|
|
|
|
|
|
You'll need to Register first of course.
You'll need to Register first of course.
|
|
I am certain I've made improvements by being coached at a Snowdome. I don't think I'd have the self-discipline to put myself through endless drills by myself and just skiing down would achieve nothing. The crowding is a big issue for me and the main reason I haven't been back in a year. It may be quieter in evenings or early mornings but that generally isn't when the coaches work.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Here is a okay skier who worked hard in a SnowDome and got pretty good.. I have trained many kids who primarily only ski in domes and dry slopes. 7 of whom went on to become national team athletes. I have trained over 30 rec skiers who went on to become instructors... (notice a pattern )
https://vimeo.com/74525886
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
@skimottaret, Pattern, yes - the other 234000 people you coached over the years were poo-poo 😊😆 On a serious note well done and it shows what can be achieved in a dome
|
|
|
|
|
|
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
|
| Quote: |
| I have trained over 30 rec skiers who went on to become instructors... (notice a pattern :Wink: ) |
Ooh! Ooh! I know this one! Is it "Skiers are obsessed with comparative grading and gaining badges so they can prove how much better they are than others"?
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
@Richard_Sideways, You mock (light heartedly I'm sure) but isn't that life in general, whether it be in sport, work, finance, hobbies etc
And yes gays with trays do it too...... 😆
|
|
|
|
|
|
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
|
|
@Richard_Sideways, or maybe regular training in the uk can help you become a better skier. I used to golf and the people who spent time practicing on the range or taking lessons with a pro tended to get better. Most were keen to improve and have more fun, some like in skiing were obsessed with lower their handicaps to have a number to prove their ability.. to each their own
|
|
|
|
|
|
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
|
| Richard_Sideways wrote: |
| Ooh! Ooh! I know this one! Is it "Skiers are obsessed with comparative grading and gaining badges so they can prove how much better they are than others"? |
I'm sure there are some like that. Equally, I think there are others who want to measure their progress or achievement against a reasonably objective measure. There will also be some, myself included, who go down the instructor qualification route because it is a good way to have some structured training for your personal skiing development, oftentimes with like-minded skiers who are at a similar performance level.
I think the OP was asking whether good skiers can be challenged on a relatively gentle piste, and will that lead to technical development. I think the answer to that is yes, most certainly. Obviously there are limitations and compromises, not least in terms of tactical choice/experience, psychological challenges, etc, but indoor skiing (and better still, indoor coaching) can play a part in improving a skier's performance, even at high levels.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
I'm sure my skiing improves constantly at hemel, and I only ski around 10m of it most of the time
Hemel provides it's own unique conditions after a busy day, practicing turns when it's bumpy and icy will definitely improve technique.
|
|
|
|
|
|
You know it makes sense.
|
| Quote: |
You mock (light heartedly I'm sure)
|
Moi? Awww maybe just a smidge.
Don't get me wrong - I'm not above shelling out for some decent instruction - Slaps you out of your lazy zone, keeps you on your toes.. then on your heels (Geddit? No? Bah). But we do see so many people doing the whole BASI L1 thing (although thats perhaps through the 'SnowHeads filter') when it's clear that they'll never go on to be ski instructors. It's like people going and taking their HGV license when they'll never drive anything bigger than a Mondeo just to say that they could be a truck driver if they wanted to. I do reckon that if ESF started giving out little pin badges to adults as well as kids for completing levels then half of BASIs business would dry up overnight.
|
|
|
|
|
|
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
|
| Quote: |
It's like people going and taking their HGV license when they'll never drive anything bigger than a Mondeo just to say that they could be a truck driver if they wanted to.
|
So what? Good for them, I say.
|
|
|
|
|
|
Poster: A snowHead
|
| Quote: |
| But we do see so many people doing the whole BASI L1 thing (although thats perhaps through the 'SnowHeads filter') when it's clear that they'll never go on to be ski instructors. |
And you know that first hand ?? In addition to the 5 day course there is a 2 day First aid course , 35 hours of free teaching, a child protection module to complete and pay for a CRB check.
A lot of agro just to get a tufty badge to say you are an instructor 
|
|
|
|
|
|
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
|
|
I had to redo part of my instructors course at the start of this season (carving long and short) so took advantage of the lift pass and lesson deals at CFe last summer. Definitely paid off as I passed comfortably in the end, despite the exam run feeling like one of the worst I'd ever done. Noticed the difference out on the slopes this winter too. I often get funny looks from the locals when I say I've been practicing indoors (some of them don't seem to grasp the concept), but used properly they are invaluable if you are willing and happy to do drills all the time. May be the same slope over and over again, but let's face it, when practicing out in the Alps it's often the same slope used over and over again...
|
|
|
|
|
|
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
|
| rob@rar wrote: |
I think the OP was asking whether good skiers can be challenged on a relatively gentle piste, and will that lead to technical development. I think the answer to that is yes, most certainly. |
Yes - you only need to set a few fiendish carrots in a rutline on the most gentle gradient to test bottle and control.
|
|
|
|
|
|
You need to Login to know who's really who.
You need to Login to know who's really who.
|
|
A few instructors I've coached got from L1 -> L2 standard with training solely indoors between BASI courses. Unfortunately they often then leave to do seasons!
|
|
|
|
|
|
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
|
| skimottaret wrote: |
Here is a okay skier who worked hard in a SnowDome and got pretty good.. I have trained many kids who primarily only ski in domes and dry slopes. 7 of whom went on to become national team athletes. I have trained over 30 rec skiers who went on to become instructors... (notice a pattern )
https://vimeo.com/74525886 |
Wow, very impressive progress and end result, especially considering the starting point!
|
|
|
|
|
|
You'll need to Register first of course.
You'll need to Register first of course.
|
| Dave of the Marmots wrote: |
| Yes - you only need to set a few fiendish carrots in a rutline on the most gentle gradient to test bottle and control. |
A few seasons ago skimottaret and I got a former Olympian and head of coaching for BASI to run a staff development day for us and some friends at Hemel. Was among the toughest technical skiing I did that season, challenging timing, balance, control, etc.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
| Quote: |
And you know that first hand ?? In addition to the 5 day course there is a 2 day First aid course , 35 hours of free teaching, a child protection module to complete and pay for a CRB check.
|
The thing I find weird about BASI 1 is I would have expected that ski instructor training was about turning good skiers into good instructors not fixing the skiing in the first place. From what I can see, people doing technique training for BASI 1 are miles away from the standard of skiing that I would pay to use as an example, even for my kids.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
I see BASI 1 as just a stepping stone for anyone who actually wants to become a professional instructor. It's also plenty good enough for teaching total beginners in a snow dome. I think it serves its modest purpose quite well.
|
|
|
|
|
|
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
|
|
|
|
|
|
| jedster wrote: |
The thing I find weird about BASI 1 is I would have expected that ski instructor training was about turning good skiers into good instructors not fixing the skiing in the first place. From what I can see, people doing technique training for BASI 1 are miles away from the standard of skiing that I would pay to use as an example, even for my kids. |
I imagine your kids are long past the intended remit of the L1 instructor qualification!
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
FAQ
