So I've had the bonkers idea that I'm going try to wash our (his) skiing kit. Are there any new products out there or is Nikwax still the go to for re-waterproofing non Gortex kit? Has any one successfully bought soap flakes recently or did they disappear during the last century? If so what's best to use in 2016! Will Tumbling definately kill trousers that say don't tumble all advice gratefully received...
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
I tend to use Grangers 2 in 1 for washing my gear i've washed one of my goretex jackets several times and its still going strong, if it says don't tumble dry then i wouldn't tumble dry i just dry gear on a radiator if i cant tumble dry it.
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
frankEvb wrote:
So I've had the bonkers idea that I'm going try to wash our (his) skiing kit. Are there any new products out there or is Nikwax still the go to for re-waterproofing non Gortex kit? Has any one successfully bought soap flakes recently or did they disappear during the last century? If so what's best to use in 2016! Will Tumbling definately kill trousers that say don't tumble all advice gratefully received...
Nikwax or Grangers make reproofing gunk. They also make washing liquid that is safe to use on Gortex etc. I don't think one is better than the other to be honest, but last time I asked in a shop they swore blind Grangers was better.
Not sure about tumble drying, it is actually good for helping reproof shell garments but if the instructions say not to then why risk it?
I've used Nikwax but prefer Grangers. For hard shell, I use the Grangers 30 degree wash and follow with a reproofing spray. This combo has not failed me yet and I wash my Gore-tex gear several times a season.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
@francium., Thanks. Is Grangers available on high street? Do you wash it in? And if so is the wicking capacity affected?
@Sub_Zero_G, and @sah thank you. had heard tumbling helped activate somethin or other technical - best not I guess... Cheers
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Then you can post your own questions or snow reports...
i buy it at go outdoors usually, i've only used it on shell garments so cant comment on the wicking capacity although if you buy the grangers tech wash they do a waterproofing spray for garments with a lining.
After all it is free
After all it is free
@frankEvb, instructions on the Grangers reproofing spray recommend tumble drying if your garment wash instructions allow it. Since my ski pants and ski jacket wash instructions do allow tumble drying I tumble dry.
The Grangers has not decreased the wicking capabilities of my gear. They have several products, each suitable for different properties, just take a look,at their website.
Grangers is available in most outdoor stores on their websites and on Amazon.
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I use a solid vanish stick and scrubbing brush on badly soiled bits (members of my family are apt to do greasy car type jobs whilst in a ski jacket) rinse well under a tap then wash in machine using Nikwax as thats what I can buy in our local camp shop. If the item has been washed a few times I often put the wash in re-proofer in the final rinse. I have done this for 20 years plus with various items of ski/camp items/clothes and it seems to work!
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I've heard that the wash-in reproofer can reduce breathability, which is why Gore-tex recommends spray on reproofer.
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Wow so many replies and so quickly... Thank you one and all. Think I will try the Grangers.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
@Sub_Zero_G, had heard that too - will try a wash Grangers spray and radiator combo (and hope for the best)! Cheers
So if you're just off somewhere snowy come back and post a snow report of your own and we'll all love you very much
So if you're just off somewhere snowy come back and post a snow report of your own and we'll all love you very much
@Sub_Zero_G, I too have heard that too, but have not noticed it happening to any of our clothes.
You know it makes sense.
You know it makes sense.
@CaravanSkier, that's good to know! Have been slightly concerned that I'm gonna end up wrecking all our kit 2 weeks before we go... Hopefully not!
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Have washed and re-proofed (spray) but never seems to be as good as before so I don't wash unless absolutely necessary.
But never tried Grangers, have always used Nikwax so maybe will give Grangers a good and see how it performs.
Poster: A snowHead
Poster: A snowHead
One thing, whatever you use, don't let any detergent get near. Best do the washing in a clean bucket than risk contamination.
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
@jbob, I run the machine empty first to try and clean out any lurking detergent. Couldn't be arsed with a bucket wash
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Nikwax. And as @Mosha Marc says give the washer a good clean out first
Use Nikwax on my Paramo (invented by the same guy) don't have the luxury of a tumble dryer here so hang it up above heater and that seems to do the trick.
Use tech wash prior to proofing - was up in the wet weather and still got a wet back bottom from the chair lift in feckin goretex whilst my Paramo jacket was bone dry
Then you can post your own questions or snow reports...
Then you can post your own questions or snow reports...
I generally wash my ski stuff once a season, but the harsh truth is despite the price, gortex will get less effective over time.
The current weather conditions have proved my much loved Arcterex jacket not up to the job. It's identical replacement which I bought over a year ago when I spotted it cheap will now be pressed into service. I find once a jacket or pants starts "wetting out" even if technically still waterproof, and especially if it's windy, become cold and uncomfortable.
After all it is free
After all it is free
jbob wrote:
I generally wash my ski stuff once a season, but the harsh truth is despite the price, gortex will get less effective over time.
The current weather conditions have proved my much loved Arcterex jacket not up to the job. It's identical replacement which I bought over a year ago when I spotted it cheap will now be pressed into service. I find once a jacket or pants starts "wetting out" even if technically still waterproof, and especially if it's windy, become cold and uncomfortable.
or you could do what Arcteryx do themselves. Wash it with graingers and tumble dry after a reproof.
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@Weathercam, odd. I have found all my stuff completely waterproof.
My old Mountain Hardwear GT Ultra remained to for about 700 days, which was epic. If I'd only bought two. Great colour as well.
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@under a new name, as @jbob, and many others know, Goretex does break down over time.
I spent a few hours with the marketing dir of Paramo a few years back and naturally she went to great lengths to explain the pros & cons and why goretex as a material especially if scrunched up in a back pack, sleeves rolled up and under a back pack will break down and no amount of reproofing will help.
I might even ask her via email for her two cents worth explaining this thread, as she is so evangelical when it comes to materials!
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
Weathercam wrote:
@under a new name, as @jbob, and many others know, Goretex does break down over time.
I spent a few hours with the marketing dir of Paramo a few years back and naturally she went to great lengths to explain the pros & cons and why goretex as a material especially if scrunched up in a back pack, sleeves rolled up and under a back pack will break down and no amount of reproofing will help.
I might even ask her via email for her two cents worth explaining this thread, as she is so evangelical when it comes to materials!
I had a paramo smock. Great Jacket and by far the softest and most comfortable jacket I've ever had although it is quite warm. I had a pair of their waterproof trousers but they look naff.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
Weathercam wrote:
@under a new name, as @jbob, and many others know, Goretex does break down over time.
I spent a few hours with the marketing dir of Paramo a few years back and naturally she went to great lengths to explain the pros & cons and why goretex as a material especially if scrunched up in a back pack, sleeves rolled up and under a back pack will break down and no amount of reproofing will help.
I might even ask her via email for her two cents worth explaining this thread, as she is so evangelical when it comes to materials!
Agreed but note the goretex membrane is pretty fragile - it's basically fancy plumber's PTFE tape. Durability is as much down to the quality of the outer fabric/liner/stitching/taping. 2 layer stuff won't last as long as 3 layer stuff. I've had a range of goretex kit and some has lasted a lot longer than others...notable failure being Haglofs soft-shell pants that developed excellent venting in the groin area after spending a couple of days wearing a harness. For goretex at least, I don't think the membrane is any (or much) different to the hard shells.
So if you're just off somewhere snowy come back and post a snow report of your own and we'll all love you very much
So if you're just off somewhere snowy come back and post a snow report of your own and we'll all love you very much
@GlasgowCyclops, good vid thanks.
You know it makes sense.
You know it makes sense.
@GlasgowCyclops, your timing is superb
Today, in the rain I've been wearing my naff Paramo salopettes/ shell suit / sleeping bag trousers, whilst on an avi course and then again tonight walking down to the village, in the rain, and whilst so naff, they are the driest most comfortable gear you can wear!
I only wish they could get a decent designer on board!
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
My 20 yr old berghaus goretex jacket is still 100% waterproof, although I admit I've had to reglue the hood and neck seam tape twice. I wash it with normal detergent as well, none of the fancy stuff. It's been dragged around Alaska for 6 months, multiple alpine hiking trips, various climbing trips and is now my daily wet weather cycling jacket.
I've not tried any of the more modern lighter goretex stuff, I don't know if the durability of that is different.
Poster: A snowHead
Poster: A snowHead
Weathercam wrote:
@GlasgowCyclops, your timing is superb
Today, in the rain I've been wearing my naff Paramo salopettes/ shell suit / sleeping bag trousers, whilst on an avi course and then again tonight walking down to the village, in the rain, and whilst so naff, they are the driest most comfortable gear you can wear!
I only wish they could get a decent designer on board!
Exactly, I think I may still have mine somewhere. Always dry, always warm and I was always thinking how bad I looked in a dark blue shell suit. But my Paramo smock was the best jacket I ever had. They just need a designer. Not a hood designer....... the Paramo hood is still the best hood ever on a jacket. Hugs the head and a brilliant brim.
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Regardless of manufacturer, aftermarket DWRs are usually based on three different technologies:
C8, long-chain, fluorocarbons work well and cling to the fabric well but do not decompose and are harmful to the environment. Be careful not to breathe them.
C6 fluorocarbons are safer but do not work quite as well.
C4, short-chain, fluorocarbons are safest but least effective.
In the last few years the eco movement has brought pressure on the industry. I don't think you can buy C8 DWRs on the open market any more but I believe they still exist if you know where to ask.
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
@altis, Just in from Paramo
Back in September Greenpeace asked major outdoor brands if they use PFCs to make their products. Most brands had to admit that they do use PFCs. Greenpeace then asked the public which products they wanted tested. More than 30,000 votes were cast on the Detox Outdoor website from outdoor lovers around the world, and the 40 most voted for were sent to an independent lab for testing. At the ISPO exhibition in Munich yesterday, Greenpeace announced the results of this testing – the link at the bottom of this email takes you to these results – not all good news!
Greenpeace and Páramo are both thrilled to announce that Páramo has declared total commitment to Detox. We are the first outdoor brand to have already eliminated PFC from our entire production chain, showing that high-performance PFC-free gear is possible, and setting the highest standard within the sector.
Please find a press release attached for your immediate attention. Gareth Mottram (Páramo CEO) and Nick Brown are both available for interview.
Greenpeace were doing the rounds door-knocking just before the election. They were very nice but oddly ran a mile when I said I worked in the most reliable carbon-free energy industry. That definitely has nothing to do with washing clothes. Hopefully they focus on the good stuff like above.
Getting back on track after a couple of wayward posts: gave my much-abused MTB active shell a going over with the Nikwax stuff and repels like new now. Grangers or Nikwax take your pick; just make sure you follow the instructions
Then you can post your own questions or snow reports...
Then you can post your own questions or snow reports...
Arcteryx has a USA product online its called Nu selling at £10 .Think its Revive or Revivex renamed, stateside they seem to like it in the review comparisons they do .
Another uk outdoor product is DRI-PAKS Liquid soap flakes at waitrose and possibly big tescos its a good sized 750ml for about £3-£4 .
I,m not sure how well this cleans I found both it and tech wash mild to hopeless on poma black butt marks .
Only a good detergent scrub helped followed by lots of rinsing and finally the Liquid soap or tech wash to wash out any residue detergent .
The DRI-PAK chap said the key after any cleaning whats important is further tech washing or rinsing the detergent completely out no matter what you do .
Last edited by Then you can post your own questions or snow reports... on Wed 27-01-16 18:49; edited 1 time in total
After all it is free
After all it is free
Weathercam wrote:
@CharliebigpotatoesRead all the thread and you might actually learn something for a change
Au contraire Spammy - I've learnt quite a bit
1) Most people use Grangers rather than Nikwax
2) Altis knows a lot about DWR
3) Sharkymark doesn't need to buy any fluorescent clothing ever again
3) You shamelessly feel the need to show off to the class, by rehashing press releases
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
@Charliebigpotatoes, I will continue to buy strongly-coloured articles of technical outerwear. It's all about the skittles.
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Ski the Net with snowHeads
OH is doing an interview with Nik Brown of Nikwax / Paramo in a couple of weeks time.
Any sensible questions from the class for him?
"do you actually have to use a spin dryer" as that must go against the carbon footprint ??
FAQ
Poster: A snowHead
all advice gratefully received...
