 Poster: A snowHead
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Hi,
Having spent days trawling the internet, using numerous search phrases, and having failed to find what I'm looking for, I can only conclude that the product doesn't exist.
Therefore, I have an idea for a product that I'm sure everyone would want one of. I don't think it's patentable as it's an item of clothing.
Who should I take this idea to and how can I ensure that I get a cut?
Tar
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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Make it yourself first, then look for suppliers who can make it for less.
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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Have a layer draw up a non compete agreement and then talk to a relevant brand that might be interested.
Good luck
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
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Copyright the design?
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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Re Copyright.
I don't think it could be copyrighted, eg you can't copyright a t-shirt, only the design that's on it (it's neither a t-shirt nor the design on one!), in the same way that a ski helmet is really just a hat.
Never heard of a non compete agreement, but I'll look into it.
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You'll need to Register first of course.
You'll need to Register first of course.
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Out of interest, who are the big players in ski clothing (not just manufacture, but distribution) that I might want to contact?
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Trying not to be a 'Help Vampire' (favourite new tech phrase)
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Dont go to china to make your item else they will just rip it off and you will see your item being sold on ebay for pennies.
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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@marodo2712, Nothing answers questions like a Handy Infographic! The corporations that run Snowboarding (skiing too)
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@marodo2712, see a patent attorney about design registration. The Government's IPO website is very useful.
I know zippo about ski gear but if it's anything like other products:
(1) Prototype it yourself locally (have them sign NDA)
(2) Test it, perfect it and get final samples
(3) Approach a carefully researched 'player' who'll be happy to sign up to an NDA and grant you an audience
(4) Be prepared to be ruthlessly ripped off - you are licensing an unproven idea so you might be lucky and get 3-5% of the wholesale price.
If someone nicks your idea can you afford to take legal action?
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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@marodo2712, I must admit to being a lawyer but, before you incur fees (whether with a lawyer or patent attorney) I think you need to do more market research on your product. IMHO you should get some friends who ski to help you identify if the product really is ground breaking and likely to be desirable before you incur professional costs. Yes, you risk telling people what your idea is but you also save wasted costs if it is not as attractive as you think. In reality most people are unable to launch new products themselves for all sorts of reasons including lack of funds, time, perseverance, knowledge of industry etc and are unlikely to run off with your idea.
Monetizing an idea (ie persuading someone else to incur all of the up front costs but pay you for the idea) is difficult (think of Dragons Den). So you really need to be solid on the market for the product before thinking of how a business plan would look and then how you might launch it. None of this would be wasted 'investment' whereas incurring professional fees now might well be.
Hope that helps.
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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you should get some friends who ski to help you identify if the product really is ground breaking
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But be absolutely clear with them that you want it warts and all, the good/bad/ugly and you will take it like a man/woman. Friends have a habit of not wanting to upset you or being the bearer of bad news by blowing your dreams out of the water.
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You're all very kind and knowledgeable.
It's quite strange, in as much as it's neither patentable nor registerable - yes, I know it sound weird.
Even though I DO have a specific design in mind, once the 'competition' see it, they'll be able to copy it with modifications, so in that sense it's a 'concept'. You must all be aware of those animal hats that are available at every junky ski shop, well there's nothing to stop another company from producing an animal hat, so the animal hat is a concept rather than something that can be protected.
My idea is a concept, though nothing to do with animals! A big enough company could probably produce the item for about a fiver or less and I can see people paying £20+, and £60+ for a well made one, so there's a reasonable margin.
I foresee the 'negotiation' being me sitting in front of some people and telling them my idea, may with a demo, and them handing me a wad of cash or a percentage, then they'd go off and make tons of them and earn more cash than they earn at the moment.
Anyway, it's really frustrating, I'm going skiing in a month and I'd really like one!
Catch 22.
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You know it makes sense.
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I foresee the 'negotiation' being me sitting in front of some people and telling them my idea, may with a demo, and them handing me a wad of cash or a percentage, then they'd go off and make tons of them and earn more cash than they earn at the moment
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@marodo2712, and then the alarm goes off and it's time to get up.
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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and then the alarm goes off and it's time to get up.
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Sadly true....
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Poster: A snowHead
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@Richard_Sideways, Love the info graphic.
BTW, if anyone want's to go to the next step just PM me - you provide the legal stuff as I'm skint. I live in St Albans.
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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I'm out 
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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| marodo2712 wrote: |
| I'm going skiing in a month and I'd really like one! |
So make one and product test it yourself. You stand far more of a chance of success with a product that exists and has been tested.
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
You need to Login to know who's really who.
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@queen bodecia, The last thing I sewed was a felt teddybear in the sewing class at Harehills Middle School, in 1975 - but yes, I take your point.
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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@marodo2712, by the way, there have been a gazillion ski inventions over the years, most of them one hit wonders. I'd be amazed if what you have thought of hasn't already been done in one shape or form probably in the US. I suspect a lot of money has been invested and lost over the years on 'useful' ski gadgets. I mean, how many ski carrying devices does the world need?
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You'll need to Register first of course.
You'll need to Register first of course.
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how many ski carrying devices does the world need?
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JUST... ONE... MORE!!!
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@marodo2712, it's sewable, so I guess it's a strap to carry your (and maybe kids') skis to and from the lifts?
Been done before. Clearly with no commercial success.
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Let's play Guess The Product... does it strap on? 
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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Not a ski carrying device.
Once the concept is out there the product will continue to be used in the future (not a fad), and I suspect SOME will consider it a new piece of necessary kit (though some won't touch it).
I think we're all frustrated here. If it was patentable,registerable it wouldn't be a problem, but it isn't so I'm scuppered. It's a shame that I have to keep this item from the world because of my own personal greed, and because of my unwillingness to just give the idea to the big players who'll rub their hands in delight as extra cash hits their collective accounts.
Anyway, anybody interested in a free energy generator idea.... 
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I'm not sure Your looking at this the correct way.
If as you say
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it was patentable,registerable
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The you would have protection but as You suggest it isn't then if it is a product that someone else can replicate and make money out of they will. If you think there is a market for it then you need to work out the cost of production for a viable number of units that you will sell in a reasonable time, work out your price point and therefore margin (will differ if you sell direct or via retailer), make it and sell it. If your lucky and it is a product that people wan,t you may get a couple of cycles out of it before the big boys jump in.
Even if other people do copy it, if you have brand foothold and especially if you have a 'higher quality product' than the upcoming copies have then you will most likely still retain a degree of brand loyalty though that will clearly depend on price to the retailer or end consumer.
In a different league but there are plenty of people out there still buying £400 gopros when there are loads of chinese copies for a lot less, because some people want the brand, the better quality.
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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@marodo2712, while formal patents are hard to get, take forever and cost a small fortune, copyrighting a design is relatively straight forward, cheap and comparatively quick. Likewise to register a design. While they're not patent grants, they would offer some protection over your design while you work out what to do with it.
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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@marodo2712, There will be a local sewing repair shop. Cut up the material/webbing/whatever draw a pattern or sketch and get them to sew it for you. They really will not be bothered what the hell it is.
Then take it away and test it on yourself and buddies if you are away for a month.
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| marodo2712 wrote: |
| You're all very kind and knowledgeable. ... It's quite strange, in as much as it's neither patentable nor registerable - yes, I know it sound weird. ... |
I'm not in the least bit kind, in the sense that being kind is often unhelpful at a deeper level.
Nothing I've ever built has been patentable or "registerable", but I don't care because I don't think those things encourage the best play style. That's a defensive approach, which results in Apple and patients for perpetual motion machines. In my businesses, we build stuff which is simply better than the other people, and when they copy our stuff (which is inevitable), we laugh because they copied the old stuff, which we've already improved on. Many of my competitors in business adopt a defensive play style - I can see it has it's place, but it's not even helpful for innovative people, in my view.
We're not alone. GoPro built something which is eminently copyable, yet they did rather well as a company. I'd say that they had a good idea and they took a (close to) first mover advantage and drove it home. That's impressive, patents are for lawyers and crooks.
So I'd say that if you have a decent idea then sell your house, invest your money, and make it happen.
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You know it makes sense.
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then sell your house
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There are a lot of skint and homeless wannabee entrepreneurs who would disagree with that idea.
Without knowing what the product is it's impossible to say what the best course of action is. Personally I didn't sell my house (my kids' inheritance), I stayed in my job and my spare time went into building the business. Eventually I was able to ditch the job. I have lost count of the number of Ferraris in my garage (I made that last bit up).
There are problems with ski accessories I would think (1) it's seasonal and weather dependent (2) factories have minimum order quantities (3) you have to hold stock (4) retailers are a nightmare at paying (or not) their bills and (4) selling a new concept direct takes mucho dinero.
I don't know the ski biz but it can't be much different from any other biz.
Don't flog the house but do go look for a licensee. De-risk it.
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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@marodo2712,
I must confess to being a patent attorney! Right, now I've got that bit out of the way feel free to pm me if you've any questions or want to clarify what can or can't be protected, by what rights, and the process involved.
Cheers
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Poster: A snowHead
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To be honest if you told us here what this magic idea is then most of us would probably tell you it's crap or why there isn't a market for it. I assume it isn't a teleporter or a jetpack.
A jacket with built in mittens? A hood with built in balaclava? A Friesen Onsie? Goggles with a gaiter to avoid gaper gap. You could call it Gaper Gator TM. Ski Ties? Not those boring things you hold skis together with but a real all season Tie you wore over your jacket to match your pants? Monkey boxing?
Really an idea is worth eff all without a proof of concept /market so no one will pay you for it.
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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Is it an edible ski carrying strap? Getting close?
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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I'm struggling to think what everyone would want? Laser cannon for that ESF class that cuts in on you without looking? Water bottle pocket sewn to your jacket.
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
You need to Login to know who's really who.
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@Renmurew, Thanks for your offer, but I won't PM you as I'll be saying what you need to hear here (here here!) Not trying to be rude or ungrateful, but I'd just be repeating myself.
@philwig, If I sold my house my landlord might get a bit sniffy!
@Jake43, Although a factory would be able to make it for about a fiver (I guess, in China, where most stuff is made), I don't think that a local sewing shop would be up to it as certain special parts would have to be manufactured separately then brought together, and I certainly wouldn't be up to it.
The reason it can't be protected is because it's an item of clothing (one which I was sure already existed but doesn't). In order to make it work I'd have to invest tons of money manufacturing the product then I'd have to get the packaging designed and made, then I'd have to distribute it to every ski shop in Europe (at least). The price I foresee being about £40+ per unit, so I'd imagine that the margin would be somewhere in the region of £20 per unit after all costs where taken into account (I'm no expert so this is a very squinty eyed estimate).
As I said in an earlier post, the only way I could think of the idea getting from my brain to the shops would be to sit in front of a manufacturer in the field and tell them about it, but expecting them to throw their hands up in delight and asking me to sign a contract guaranteeing me a percentage is, at least, unrealistic, they'd say they weren't interested then go ahead and make it anyway.
@Dave of the Marmottes, I'm sure that if there was a great reveal, half of you would screw up your faces with a lack impressed(ness), but you would admit that it was a new concept in skiwear and that people would buy it.
It's a pity, because I think it's a good idea, people would buy it and it would be a new part of the numerous bits of skiing kit that people would peruse on t'internet and ski shops.
Anyway, I don't think it's going to happen, there's no way of me making anything out of it, and it would line the pockets of the greedy corporations. Aren't I a selfish bug*er.
As Gilbert the alien was fond of saying, "Ah well, ye can aalways dream!"
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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Oh well good luck with the cudda been a contender. If you want the product and would pay £40 for it why not pitch it to a ski co anyway. At least they might offer you a job.
Not all people in the ski industry are bloodsucking corporate leeches. A lot of people are in it to get by so don't assume they'd rip your idea off without you getting something out of it, but expecting to make your fortune without any graft yourself is slightly unrealistic. Booster Straps for instance are pretty much a one man band in a very specific niche.
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You'll need to Register first of course.
You'll need to Register first of course.
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It's not that I don't want to graft, it's that I possess neither the funds nor the skills required to produce a sample model, all I'm able to do is describe it in detail.
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C'mon you can make a demo of pretty any piece of clothing from an old sheet and duct tape. No sewing skills required. Add toilet roll tubes and cornflake packets for a bit of structural integrity. Any 5 year old would have a crack.
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It requires particular materials and particular manufacturing processes to make it, any mockup I made would be pathetic.
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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@marodo2712, people here have given you loads of advice including a patent attorney who is offering what I believe to be free advice. Your responses sound like laziness to me. If you can't be bothered to take people's advice then why did you even start this thread? I could probably put you in touch with a company who could make a low cost prototype for you. Armed with that you may be able to get a meeting with potential manufacturers, distributors and retailers. But you would have to do all this legwork yourself. No one is going to pay you for sitting on your back bottom and having an 'idea'.
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I'd have to distribute it to every ski shop in Europe (at least). The price I foresee being about £40+ per unit, so I'd imagine that the margin would be somewhere in the region of £20 per unit after all costs where taken into account (I'm no expert so this is a very squinty eyed estimate).
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For distribution you could probably use winter sports distributors rather than try and do it yourself.
When you say 'price' are you talking about retail price or trade price? I assume it must be trade price if you think there's a £20 margin in it for you, which means we must be talking about something with a retail price of around £80 - £100?
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FAQ
