 Poster: A snowHead
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Hi all,
I just wanted to make a separate thread from my initial one crying out for help! Hopefully this may help people in my position in the future.
My conundrum was odd feet, excruciating pain in rentals and an impending holiday.
After much advice from all you knowledgable people here I took the dive and went for new boots despite being a relative novice.
I ended up going to the Snow and Rock store in Hemel at the snow centre due to a load of vouchers I had for there which I didn't want to waste. I know many people suggested other, more reputable stores in regards to boot fitting but I thought I had nothing to lose as essentially I didn't pay anything for the boots anyway.
Before I even set foot in the store, I did a load of research which I think is important. I leant about types of boots, footbeds, the fitting process, what I should be looking for and other technical hints and tips.
When I got to the boot section, immediately one fellow took my eye. Not the spotty young kid, not the cool looking guy who skis "his way". It was the softly spoken, mid forties South African chap called Glen. I have to say he was bloody fantastic. Despite the store being busy he spent at least 90 minutes with me and talked me through every step of the process. Because I had done my research I knew what I should expect he nailed everything.
He measured my feet, took one look and said he knew exactly what brand and boot to get. Lo and behold, he got me a pair of Atomic Hawx 100 which slipped on and fitted perfectly. He gave me a good amount of time in them before it started to feel a pressure point which he duly went and worked some magic with some foam and the oven. Two very warm feet later my boots fit great.
He suggested custom beds which I'm still umming and arring about but he didn't push them. He said if I feel comfortable, go and test them (luckily I had a lesson booked straight after!) so I did. And he nailed it. Yes, I still need them to bed in some more which will happen more on my week holiday but my pain is gone and I don't want to take my boots off after 20 minutes.
So in summary for fellow newbies in my position.
1. Do your research. Know the boot fitting process and what the expect.
2. Don't pick based on colour or brand. Let the boot pick you. Yes, your boot may end up clashing with your carefully selected matching outfit but they will be comfy and worth it.
3. Prepare to spend some time in the shop. At least 90 mins.
4. Get yourself good ski socks. Not budget ones from TK Maxx.
5. Learn now to buckle properly. Helped me massively.
6. You may need a bed, you may not. If you do, go for it. In the long run it'll be worth it.
7. I can highly recommend Glen at Snow and Rock Hemel Hempstead. He was superb and very knowledgeable.
8. Take the time to bed your boots in. Most of the fitters give a comfort guarantee.
So now I look forward to my first every trip to L2A in two weeks. Still may get footbeds but undecided yet. I'm pain free and comfy but if beds will improve my control even further then I'll take the plunge.
Hope this may help people who were in my position.
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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That's really helpful, thank you. Every year I nearly take the plunge and then back out. I'm nervous about having my own boots as there's no taking them back to the shop in resort for a switcheroo (like I do at least twice every holiday). Can I ask for a rough idea of how much new boots realistically cost?
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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| nem wrote: |
| That's really helpful, thank you. Every year I nearly take the plunge and then back out. I'm nervous about having my own boots as there's no taking them back to the shop in resort for a switcheroo (like I do at least twice every holiday). Can I ask for a rough idea of how much new boots realistically cost? |
Your boots are just that. Yours. So you can get them adjusted to your hearts content. Most fitters offer a comfort promise, meaning at a minimum they will adjust the boot free of charge until the end of the current season.
My advice would be to get a pair well in advance of going away and have some lessons or book a session at an indoor pistes so you have time it bed them in and make any changes before you go.
In total my boots cost £270. If I wanted custom footbeds. It would have been another £60 on top. Obviously these prices vary from fitter to fitter and on what boot ends up fitting you.
Some piece get lucky and even get a boot from last season which fits them but costs like £150 or so.
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
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Buy the Custom Footbeds, otherwise your feet will lack support.
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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Thanks, that doesn't sound too bad. I might go and have a look. It would be great to get away from that sinking feeling in the morning when faced with outing on the boots!
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| snowbunny wrote: |
| Buy the Custom Footbeds, otherwise your feet will lack support. |
Do you think they'll help even more? I'm not in pain anymore but willing to invest if it will add to the experience!
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I bought some new boots recently. It went like this. I walked into the shop. I had my feet measured. Guy brings me 3 pairs of boots. I try on 3 pairs of boots. All of them fit. I choose my favourite colour boots. The end. Just lucky I guess.
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From your description it sounds like you have either exceptionally ordinary feet or your new boots are too big. No big drama at that price, but they don't sound like boots that are going to still fit in 3-4 weeks of skiing time.
How much room do you have when they shell checked them?
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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@flangesax, 
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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I went to see a well-reputed boot fitter.
He spent probably about two minutes looking at my feet, and told me neither he, nor anyone else would be able to provide a suitable off the shelf boot to accommodate my feet.
I have sometimes wondered what would happen if I walked into for example, the Hemel Snow and Rock, and asked them to find me a pair of boots- would they find me something, or send me away?
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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Difficult feet are difficult feet.
I'm guessing you've a history of poor fit/painful boots. Do you have problems with other footwear?
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You know it makes sense.
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@Flangesax, not particularly bothersome with shoes or boots normally, sizing up normally helps with the width. A quick glance at the boot box shows that my boots are mondo 30- the left boot has a width of 10, the right 14... 
The original fitter reeled off a list of half a dozen problems, none of which were particularly bothersome on themselves, but bound together was a bit much.
I think my point is just (and I'm sure that most people on here will agree) that if you're lucky with your feet then a fit will be straightforward, but not all (maybe not even many?) will fall into that group.
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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These dang boot companies... reeling out tens of thousands of boots designed to fit only the minority!... We should have a word!
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Poster: A snowHead
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| Quote: |
He spent probably about two minutes looking at my feet, and told me neither he, nor anyone else would be able to provide a suitable off the shelf boot to accommodate my feet.
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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@CH2O - Astonishing.
Over the internet, knowing little about me, you've managed to determine that the fitter's opinion is likely to be invalid. (That's the only explanation I can garner for the rolly-eye thing)
Perhaps, with your skillset you should open a webstore, sell boots online. 
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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@Timberwolf, sorry, the OP, not you. You've been skiing long enough to know you have very ordinary feet 
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
You need to Login to know who's really who.
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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| Quote: |
sorry, the OP, not you.
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Then why will the OP's boots not fit in 3 to 4 weeks time.
That doesn't make any sense in the context of his post or your reply?
I must be missing something (as usual).
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You'll need to Register first of course.
You'll need to Register first of course.
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@flangesax, because boots that are going to fit if the OP has "odd feet" aren't going to be a case of wander into the stock room, pick up pair of boots, customer sticks them on and everything is miraculously going to fit with hardly any work at all, all done start to finish in 90 mins? Timberwolf on the other hand has been buying boots long enough to know how a boot is going to fit when brand new on his "regular" feet and has half a chance of not being sold a bucket of expanding foam instead of a ski boot
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Jeez.... this just goes on and on doesn't it...
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I read with interest all the people going in to fancy ski shops and having special boot liners and the like. I maybe a little cynical here but it really is in the interests of the shop to convince one to part with a load of ones hard earn't. Like all sports today having the right gear is almost more important than learning how to become proficient in said sport. So I feel that when a shop says unless you spend a fortune on boots and that you need to have custom liners otherwise you wont be able to ski at your full potential. Every twitch and minute movement will not be able to be transmitted to the ski you wont be in control, you'll be in pain, blah blah blah. This will of course be perpetuated by the people who have bought into this idea and then boast to their colleagues about the trouble they have gone to in arriving at the perfectly fitted boot. Why is this I ask myself? An awful lot of people hire boots year in year out and seem to be fine because otherwise the renting of boots would not exist. I personally hired boots for a while but decided I wanted my own, mainly for independence but also I really don't like sticking my feet into a still warm smelly boot from the previous weeks hire. I decide to buy mine on-line at my regular shoe size and guess what they fitted perfectly. Well why wouldn't they. We move around all year in shoes that we have bought according to our shoe size sometimes doing all sorts of amazing feats like hill walking, running marathons, playing all other forms of sport but when it comes to skiing we have to go and get a boot in our size and then have somebody to convince us to spend an extra fifty notes and get custom moulded foot beds. Maybe its me or the two glasses of wine I consumed before writing this.
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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@Digger the dinosaur, well, the OP got Atomic Hawks that are heat mouldable. That means that they heat the liner AND the shell, you put them on and then they conform to your feet as they cool off. They are pretty much custom boots. That's my experience with my new Redsters.
@Jools 837, I haven't seen you ski and I haven't seen your feet. In MY experience buying boots according to conversion tables (I wear euro 42 UK 8 street shoes and even bigger running shoes - so should be in a mondo 27 boot) lead to too big boots. They were fine on blue runs or slowly on red runs, but going fast on bumps on a red run? Fast slalom turns on a icy black run? Not so much. I really didn't like feeling my foot twisting inside the boot. Going to a narrow boot in a 26 size really improved my skiing at the price of some pain and a black toe nail in the first 2 weeks. Fixed by some grinding of the boot and some footbeds (not custom rather Superfeet that provide better support and ankle hold than the flat piece of board Lange thought as fit for purpose). Oh and try some climbing in shoes bought according to your running shoe size 
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| Quote: |
Perhaps, with your skillset you should open a webstore, sell boots online.
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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@CH2O,
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Quote:
Perhaps, with your skillset you should open a webstore, sell boots online.
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But only if that gig in Chamonix ain't working out
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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<disclaimer> I'm not an expert, I'm just a regular guy posting his rambling thought on the internet.
Ok, against my better judgement, I'll jump back in on this one with a couple of thoughts, and my opinion.
It is my opinion that there is a current vogue for fitting boots that are very tight to begin with ( sometimes painfully so - see comments above such as 'pain' and 'black toe nail' ), and then only become comfortable after the liner has compressed. Now call me old fashioned, lazy, not willing to get the most out of my skiing, but I don't want my first few days/weeks of skiing in my new boots to result in this experience. Hell, if it takes as long as 4 weeks for them to bed in, I may well be changing my boots after 10 to 12 weeks of skiing, so 20% to 25% of the time using them in pain ? No thanks Mr bootfitter. Now, I'll go one step further, and suggest that IMO, this vogue is especially prevalent in the UK...... controversial ? Well, maybe, but I refer you to my recent fitting experience in Austria, where they tend to know a thing or two about skiing.
I would wager that the vast majority of holiday skiers (90% ??) Just want to pootle around their resort of choice, they don't want or need a boot to fit like Svindal's does, to transfer every shift of toe hair to the ski, they just want to be comfortable right from the off.
So, come on then, come and shoot me down.......
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@Timberwolf, having experienced 3 weeks of numbness and toenail loss from previous 'fitted' boots, I'm right with you on this. But you know that already.
I'm also concerned that some people, new to skiing, may read threads about boot fitting, cost/pain/etc. and be completely put off. In that sense this forum is not providing a balanced and objective view. The vast majority of holiday skiers won't have any problems with boots, whether rental or bought.
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You know it makes sense.
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The vast majority of holiday skiers won't have any problems with boots, whether rental or bought.
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From experience of many years, with lots of friends and family, I agree. And for someone who only skis for a week or so a year to be told that "the right" boots are going to be uncomfortably tight for the first "3 to 4 weeks" is a tad discouraging. The OP (a relatively novice skier) has had "excruciating" pain from rental boots. Now he has comfortable ones, after a lengthy fitting session. Sounds like a good result to me.
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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| Timberwolf wrote: |
| I would wager that the vast majority of holiday skiers (90% ??) Just want to pootle around their resort of choice, they don't want or need a boot to fit like Svindal's does, to transfer every shift of toe hair to the ski, they just want to be comfortable right from the off. |
Totally agree. I bought some new boots 3 seasons ago and I only plucked up the courage to wear them last week because I didnt want to have to go through the pain barrier. As it was, last week, I was in a pootle about situation and could have skied back to the car and changed backed to the old boots if needed. But.... boots were fine, no pain, just a mental block on my part.
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Poster: A snowHead
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| Quote: |
I may well be changing my boots after 10 to 12 weeks of skiing, so 20% to 25% of the time using them in pain ?
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OK a question how much skiing does everyone else expect from their boots?
I was really shocked at this figure - buying something for hundreds of pounds and only using them 70 - 84 times. I expect to get at least 5 times that amount of use out of ski boots and change them when they start falling apart.
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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@johnE, fair one......... 10-12 weeks might be at the lower end of my expectation, but I wouldn't expect much more than 16 weeks.... Think about it, that's a whole season ? 4 months ? but would you expect 50-60 weeks ? ( 5 times my initial figure ) ? that's c.25 years of the average holiday skier ( 2 weeks a season )
To be fair, mine normally stink to high heaven after 10 weeks anyway 
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
You need to Login to know who's really who.
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@johnE,
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OK a question how much skiing does everyone else expect from their boots?
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My previous pair I got about 20 weeks, and I replaced them because they became seriously painful as the liners packed out. That aside, they appeared to be still in good condition. I now don't do so many full weeks, but estimate my current pair have had the equivalent of about 8 weeks use in the last year. They still seem brand new to me. They are the first pair that have ever been properly comfortable (thanks CEM) and have zipfits so liners should not restrict their life. I'm expecting to get several seasons out of them.
@Timberwolf, can you not (hand)wash the liners?
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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@Timberwolf, I got 18 years from my last pair! I have had the current pair 5 or 6 years, so at 25 days a year on snow and about 10 on dry slopes, that is about 175 days of use. It is the walking about in them, ruining the soles, that gets them in the end. That and the UV. This pair appear barely worn and are comfortable. I cannot see a reason to buy new ones.
To be honest I never buy anything new unless the current one is worn out. I suspect it is my age and upbringing. However, I now need a new ski jacket. I had a fall last week where the ski came off, bounced and the tail flew up and ripped my jacket to shreds as I skied into it. I still shudder at the thought of what would have happened if the ski had actually penetrated my rib cage.
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You'll need to Register first of course.
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| johnE wrote: |
OK a question how much skiing does everyone else expect from their boots?
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I asked the bootfitter about the expected life of my boots when I bought them. He said that typically you'd expect to get the equivilent of a full season of skiing, and that after that the life could be extended with replacement liners. There was a type of aftermarket liner that wasn't as prone to packing out - which he said some instructors use as they last longer (cork or something I think)
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120 to 180 days.
This is very interesting... we've gone from one side of the spectrum to the other.
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| Tubaski wrote: |
| johnE wrote: |
OK a question how much skiing does everyone else expect from their boots?
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I asked the bootfitter about the expected life of my boots when I bought them. He said that typically you'd expect to get the equivilent of a full season of skiing, and that after that the life could be extended with replacement liners. There was a type of aftermarket liner that wasn't as prone to packing out - which he said some instructors use as they last longer (cork or something I think) |
for me, this was true.
I had about 120 full skiing days in my atomic haxw 120 boots, and started getting heel-lift. went to profeet, and they did some quality foam liners. now, I can probably get another 2-3 years out of them.
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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I found that longevity depends on liners and on toes and heels wear. I replaced my 16 years old boots mainly because the toes and heels were worn. In theory the toe and heel pieces were replaceable but I couldn't source parts (the model was discontinued a few years ago). I also wanted a boot a bit softer and upright more suitable to a fat middle aged punter.
About size - ice skates are usually bought a size under street shoes too, climbing shoes two and even three sizes under. And it's not just the length, it's the width and the shape too. If the boot's too wide it really doesn't matter how short it is. Maybe people with wide feet have fewer problems in longer boots
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Anyone can find comfortable boots in a ski or indeed hire shop on day one. The question is whether they are going to give you any kind of control over your skis too.
Try skiing with your clips undone and see how it feels. Similar to skiing with a packed out boot that doesn't fit any more.
Similarly, anyone can find ski boots that give you loads of control but are complete agony to wear.
The trick is to find boots that give you loads of control and are also comfortable. That is more difficult for anyone with feet that are anything other than very ordinary.
I've known a few people walk into a shop, try on two or three boots with a good idea of what they want, know what is likely to fit having done a bucketload of research or talked to someone who really knows boots inside out, and picked out exactly the right boot there and then with very minimal modifications. Those people, amongst everybody I ski with, seem to be the exception rather than the norm.
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FAQ
currently riding around in a pair of 22 year old Rossignol boots with liners held together with duct tape . I did have custom beds done when I bought them plus they have the liner that moulds itself a bit when your feet warm it up, and they have been supremely comfortable ever since 