 Poster: A snowHead
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Excuse me if this has been asked 10000000 times before but, how much snow do the canons have to make for a piste to be opened? I am thinking back to last season early doors when things were a little green. I just can't see how they can make enough to get a good base and the piste it. 
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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I guess it depends on how rocky the piste is but going on early doors last season I'd hazard a guess at about a week
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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Must cost a fortune to run them
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
You need to Login to know who's really who.
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| Quote: |
Must cost a fortune to run them
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IIRC it cost Euro 35k a night in the Dolomites to run the cannons.
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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They make as much as they need to to make a good base. Although they only run them when the temperature is low enough for the snow to not melt! Yes it does cost a fortune, but not as much as not opening the resort! These places rely on their reputation for repeat visitors so they will do all they can to make sure they are open.
Last year the issue was warm temperatures not allowing the cannons to run.
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You'll need to Register first of course.
You'll need to Register first of course.
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They cost about €30 per sqm to run. But this includes all costs.
On pasture they need much less to put down a base.
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@flangesax,
...but shirley if you weren't on pastures you wouldn't need snow cannons 
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@flangesax, but how deep a sqm? Don't you mean a cubic metre?
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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@chrisrawles, Last week there was no snow at all in Saalbach-Hinterglemm. Everywhere was green grass. Then the temperature dropped, the snow cannons were fired up and have been operating around the clock so there are now a number of pistes that will open on Saturday. Not all pistes, but a limited number of mainly north-facing ones will be open for the weekend. The forecast is for a good dump of real snow which will stick nicely to the man-made base.
Snow is also stored over the summer - an extremely large pile of it (13,000 cubic m) is stored in a shaded area by the Zwölfer Nord lift. This is mainly used for the Snowmobile races in Hinterglemm which take place at the start of December.
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I read on skipass.com in the last few days that somebody in Val d'Isere had told somebody that it would take 7 - 8 days of running the cannons to get the relevant areas properly covered.
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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Is this what you mean? 
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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@under a new name, yep sorry... in German it is a qm... so I got a bit confused!... A cubic meter!
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You know it makes sense.
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@foxtrotzulu, brilliant!
@pam w, I think that is what is said around here too... but not always running 24 hours a day.
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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| Dr Rock wrote: |
| Quote: |
Must cost a fortune to run them
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IIRC it cost Euro 35k a night in the Dolomites to run the cannons. |
30k Euro per day in water alone in the Val Gardena Valley I was once told by an instructor. A lot less than a valley full of visitors spend.
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Poster: A snowHead
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how many cm's of snow can they produce in a 24 hour period?
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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depends how thin you spread it....
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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| pam w wrote: |
| depends how thin you spread it.... |
OP, If the temps are low enough, the pisties will be all about getting a base down initially with cannoned snow. The base will be compacted into ice, then any natural or cannoned snow which is laid on it will last.
Put it this way, if the resort which you're fretting about has no snowfall between now and you leaving, it wont make for the best conditions, regardless of how good the snow making is in resort.
A combination of natural and artificial snow coupled with low temps are what's required.
Last edited by Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see? on Thu 26-11-15 21:39; edited 2 times in total
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
You need to Login to know who's really who.
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I was once told that a resort likes to get at least 1m of base down and then let nature do the rest, but that was a resort on pasture not moonscape rocks
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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| pam w wrote: |
| depends how thin you spread it.... |
ofcoarse, but i'm talking about the average piste which has canons every 'x' amount of metres apart.
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You'll need to Register first of course.
You'll need to Register first of course.
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| Quote: |
| Put it this way, if the resort that you're fretting about has no snowfall between now and you leaving, it wont make for the best conditions, regardless of how good the snow making is in resort. |
Speaking of artificial snow, see the area chosen for the China winter olympics in 2022 gets a massive 0.2 to 0.7 metres of snow A YEAR??
https://next.ft.com/content/aa07b434-40d4-11e5-9abe-5b335da3a90e
Qatar for the football world cup, snowless China for the winter olympics.What a joke/sham these bidding processes are....I've read elsewhere that the Chinese ski areas are on the edge of a desert... 
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@marcellus, it is no where near 1m.
More like 10cm - 20cm.
@Mollerski, has hit the nail on the head.
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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My best snowmaker facts....
The snowmakers can work automatically once the temp is below +2.5c
and each snowmaker can make 30 cubic meters of snow an hour using 15 cubic meters of water per hour 
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@boredsurfin, That's interesting - is that 30 cubic metres after is is compacted by the bashers? Surely the raw snow as it falls can't be only half the density of water. Or am I missing something obvious (or non-obvious)?
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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@Tubaski, I guess its what comes out of the guns which is water and compressed air I believe...
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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| Quote: |
each snowmaker can make 30 cubic meters of snow an hour using 15 cubic meters of water per hour
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I find those numbers incredible!
I don't think the snow cannons in our area make make anything like as much as a metre deep covering, either. Practically all the pistes throughout our region are on pasture - it doesn't take a lot to make them skiable.
At present we have around 33 cms of snow - proper out-of-the-sky snow, and the cannons will be adding to it, so unless things change drastically the "base" won't be artificial snow, or not mostly. A mix, I guess.
I'm thinking of the mounds left when a cannon has been going all night - maybe for 8 - 10 hours. I am no judge of volume but they don't look like 300 cubic metres to me.
Doesn't the quantity and quality/density of artificial snow vary with ambient temperature/humidity and operating values, types of machinery etc?
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@pam w, The facts above are taken from the information Panels on the fence around the snowmakers water reservoir high above Montalbert.
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You know it makes sense.
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Hmmm, okay - so Wikipedia says that the density of machine made snow is 400-500kg/cubic-metre, as the denisty of pure water at 4c is 1000kg/cubic-metre then the 30 cubic metres of snow per 15 cubic metres of water does seem to be about right. I withdraw my query!
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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I imagine some snow cannons are much more effective than others.
At 15 cubic metres an hour, a single snow cannon running for four hours will use more water than the average single household in the UK does in a year.
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Poster: A snowHead
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Okay, this has picqued my interest!
I found this account of snowmaking at one resort: http://www.sundayriver.com/winter/snowmaking
The pertinent figures are that they have 1900 snowmaking guns and a water pumping capacity of 8100 gallons / minute.
8100 gallons is (according to google) 30.66 cubic metres (per minute). That's 1839 cubic metres an hour. That's not far off 1 cubic metre per gun per hour.
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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And taking that a step further. 1 cannon running for 10 hours would use 10 cubic metres of water, making around 20 cubic metres of snow.
Sunday River, that I refer to above, boasts that their 'hydrants' are 'as little as' 30 feet apart. Thats about 10 metres. so if we assume that each gun covers an area of 10 metres x 10 metres (i.e. 100 square metres) then that 20 cubic metres of snow is going to end up as a 20cm layer.
Their average hydrant spacing is quoted as 85 feet, thats 28 metres, so an area of 784 sq metres - which would spread the same 20 cubic metres to a layer about 2.5cm deep
I don't know how that fits with industry averages, and certainly theres some glaring assumptions / simplifications above (like, pistes are square etc.)
Too much maths for a Thursday...
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