Intercity trains to Bourg to be ceased?

A snowHead

SNCF are considering stopping the overnight trains to Bourg St Maurice, and after the rockfall, possibly the whole intercity connection. Seems a little drastic, and as an apartment owner down there, seriously disappointing. I love my couchettes, and Eurostar, and Thalys, and SNCF day trains. If they are going to insist on changing at Albertville (or could Moutiers cope with being a grande ligne terminus?) onto a local chuff-chuff, it may be back to the airports.

There's is a petition to rail ( wink

) against it :

https://secure.avaaz.org/fr/petition/SNCF_et_Conseil_General_de_Savoie_Sauvez_lIntercite_de_nuit_ParisBourg_Saint_Maurice_et_la_gare_de_Brg_St_M/?cwKxHjb

Anyone got any further insight as to the plans?

A snowHead

@Arctic Roll, they were considering something similar for Briancon, but they have given it a stay of execution following a landslide which has closed one of the main access roads.

Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?

If there were fast TGV trains to Albertville that would suit me very well........

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It would be a pain having to change but if the timetabling was suitable the time would not be a great problem as the things only crawl along at a small % of their full speed.

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The nearest stop for high speed trains will probably be Montmélian/Aiton on the new Lyon-Frejus-Torino line.

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After all it is free

Any links to any news reports or official announcements about this?

Out in Les Menuires at the moment. We travelled down on TGV from Paris to Chambery and then got the TER from there to Moutiers. At least that was the plan! We all had to get off at Albertville and get on a free coach to get to Moutiers. Not sure why, perhaps something to do with the rockfall that hit the line near Pombliere, between Moutiers and Bourg St Maurice?

But I would have expected them to have fixed that by now, seeing as it happened in March. Anybody know any more?

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@andy1234, Was it really a free coach or simply a replacement bus service (as appears to be the case with a lot of trains here in the UK at the moment). I cannot see why rail work between Moutiers and Bourg st Maurice would affect the train from Albertville to Moutiers.

A few years I was getting the train from Delft to Hoek van Holland when the train just stopped. A kind lady in the seat next to me translated the announcement that we were all to get off the train a catch a replacement bus. We traipsed off and went across the track to await the bus. After 15 minutes everyone just walked back actross the track and got back on the train which had been parked there all along and we proceeded to get the ferry. I never did understand what was going on. Nor, it appears, did anyone else.

How is the weather in Les Menuires at the moment?

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@johnE, I guess you could be right about replacement bus service. There were certainly a lot of passengers last Saturday.

After Sunday's heavy rain and mist the weather has been perfect, 20 to 25C in the sun and blue skies, perfect for walking to a refuge for a nice lunch! I think you are sometimes in VT so you may be interested to know there is a new refuge Lombardie about 40 minutes walk from La Sauce near Deux Nants above St Jean de Belleville. Nice selection of food at reasonable prices, and great views.

You know it makes sense.

The threat to the overnight trains is "official". Threats to TGV / daytime inter-city services are speculation.

The work to clear the rockfall which happened in March is indeed still on-going. Apparently one of the land-owners involved is being "difficult". The actual work on the line is complete and trains are now running in the mornings and evenings, but the line is closed during the day (9-5ish) while work to stabilise the cliffs goes on.

Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:

@stevomcd, thanks for that
Is that a threat to cancel the couchettes all together, or just run them as far as / starting from Albertville? The rolling stock is beginning to show its age (and then some...) so I could see why stopping the service may be preferable to updating them.
OTOH, they always seem crowded, even through the week, when we travel back and forth, so I'm sure there is an economic case

And how would this affect the Euro-star overnight option (not my personal favourite, but a valid one nevertheless, especially for those wanting to do the "1 day special" )?

AR

A snowHead

This is the full text from the TER webpage

Reprise des circulations ferroviaires entre Moûtiers et Bourg-St-Maurice samedi 29 août :
En raison des éboulements de rochers survenus sur la voie ferrée entre Moûtiers et Bourg-St-Maurice, le trafic voyageurs est assuré par liaisons routières depuis le 7 avril. Les liaisons ferroviaires reprennent progressivement depuis samedi 29 août.

Les autocars de substitution :
Durant les travaux de rétablissement de la voie, un service d'autocars de substitution est mis en place au départ soit de Chambéry, soit d'Albertville ou de Moûtiers, afin de desservir les gares jusqu'à Bourg-St-Maurice. Du 29 août au 9 octobre, ce dispositif est maintenu, du lundi au vendredi, de 9h00 à 16h00, afin de permettre la reconstruction d'un mur de soutènement. Les horaires réguliers seront rétablis samedi 10 octobre.

Computer translation of above:
Resumption of rail traffic between Moutiers and Bourg-St-Maurice Saturday, August 29:
Because of the rocky landslides occurred on the railway between Moutiers and Bourg-St-Maurice, passenger traffic is carried by road connections since April 7. Rail links gradually resume from Saturday, August 29.

Substitution coaches: During the recovery works, an alternative bus service runs from either of Chambéry or Albertville or Moûtiers, to service stations to Bourg-St-Maurice.

From August 29 to October 9, the plan is held Monday through Friday from 9:00 a.m. to 4:00 p.m., to allow the reconstruction of a retaining wall.

Regular schedules will be reinstated Saturday, October 10.

A snowHead

Thank you @AndrewsPeppers.
Reassuring.
Especially as I've booked Eurostars right up to February, but have yet to get the SNCF connections.

Any idea when the winter tickets will be released?
Often they play Silly-bugg@rs over the christmas/new-year period and don't stick to the usual 3 month window.

Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?

@AndrewsPeppers, thanks for that.
Albeit, it doesn't address the TGV / High speed train straight-through-service concerns (although as Steve McD says, 'tis speculation) . And I would still be interested if anyone has any ideas on the future of the couchettes

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@Arctic Roll, as I understand it, the couchettes are officially due to be scrapped "in 2016".

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@stevomcd, Sounds serious. Would it still be possible to take an overnight train to Bourg?

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I don't have any information on the overnight trains. I did quite a few overnight trips four years ago, and decided they were not for me, but I know they suit other's preferences.

As to the release of the winter timetables for standard TGV services - that is something I am actively chasing, so far with no luck.

These were last winter's timings:

Trains between 14 Dec 2014 - 6 Feb 2015 - available to book on 16 Oct 2014
Trains between 7 Feb 2015 - 9 Mar 2015 - available to book on 7 Nov 2014
Trains after 9 Mar 2015 - normal three months in advance

The night trains (Lyria) operate to a separate booking schedule

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Posting the above prompted me to attempt a search on the SNCF website. Usually I fail to get anywhere, but this time I found the following:

Ouverture des ventes TGV et INTERCITÉS
Vous pourrez réserver vos trajets du 13 décembre 2015 au 4 février 2016, à partir du 15 octobre 2015.

There are no timetables yet for any trains after 13 December 2015.

After all it is free

@johnE, no.

Thank you AndrewsPeppers.
And presumably, following the set-up for last year, tickets for 5 Feb to early March will be available from November 6 . . ?

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For couchettes, how quickly do they typically sell out (for March 25 or 26 - still deciding...) - do I need to be on there at the stroke of midnight, or do I have a few days?

Similarly, how quickly do the cheapest fares hang around for ?

And is the same true for Eurostar for the london-Paris leg ?

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For the French trains you need to be a lot less swift than for the direct Eurostar. You'll still be able to get tickets even a few weeks before travel, though the price does tend to only go up.

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Quick update (apologies if this info has already appeared elsewhere). Eurostar have published their winter schedules from London/Ashford to Bourg St Maurice (see link below). So they at least will be running winter 'intercity' TGV trains. But not 'sleepers' as such. They route direct UK to the Alps, without the faff of changing between Gard du Nord & Gare de Lyon in Paris.

http://www.eurostar.com/uk-en/trains

Earlier this year Eurostar introduced a service from UK direct to Lyon. This, I believe, runs all year but not everyday of the week. Again, it doesn't route via Paris so it may well suit some travellers. You can switch to an SNCF/TER train at Lyon for the Alps.

Ciao,
Wing Commander Chris (Bourg St Maurice resident).

Ahhh now I'm stuck in two minds. I much prefer getting the couchette to the over night Eurostar, and I need to book my regular Eurostar tickets now and I'm worried that come 7th November they might not be available or running?

You know it makes sense.

Just rang Voyages SNCF and they said have heard nothing about the couchettes being cancelled next year and I was the first person who had mentioned it! Is this just hear say or are there actually any reports of this being the case?

Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:

I can see that both options (overnight SNCF sleeper from Paris or the Friday night Eurostar from London direct to Bourg) would appeal to different folks. Mind you, many travellers I've talked to who used the overnight Eurostar option - intending to get the extra day on the hill - felt that it wasn't quite such a great idea in retrospect. Because it's not a 'sleeper' as such, understandably they didn't feel as well rested, ready for skiing/boarding on the Saturday. Another thing to consider is that, with an early Saturday morning arrival in resort, it's usually unlikely that your chosen accommodation will be available to check in to. Indeed, if it's a same-day changeover, the departing group may not have even have vacated the place yet. Then, naturally, it has to be cleaned/serviced. So you could be hanging around in foyers/corridors, changing into your sliding gear. Which is fine of course, if that's your (ski) bag. Sorry !

As regards the rumoured axing of the couchettes - I think it is just hearsay at the moment. What it actually looks like is part of wider issue in that a number of French national routes are reportedly heavily in debt. And it seems that a French MP has published a report calling for the axing of some routes. One of which MAY be the overnight sleeper service from Paris to Bourg. Apparently, it's not official government policy (yet ?) and it may all prove to be just 'rumour control' & untrue. There are perhaps some people who jumped to the wrong conclusion and assumed that all SNCF intercity train services to BSM will be axed. But I'll keep my ear to the ground & post any updates that I hear about. Here's a link to some more background info:

http://www.laplagnet.com/news/overnight-ski-trains-at-risk-of-being-scrapped-les-arcs-region-685107

In the meantime, I've just checked the Voyages SNCF bookings website (the French language version, not the Rail Europe English version) and they list a scheduled Intercities Du Nuit departure from Paris Austerlitz to Bourg, departing 2225 Fri 25 Dec / arriving Sat am 0740. Although that particular service is currently showing as not yet open for reservations. Not sure if this means it's too early to book it yet, or whether the head honchos at SNCF are still deliberating about running it.

More info coming up, if and when I get it.

A snowHead

Thanks for that Chris. Its good to have a bit of back ground to where the rumors are coming from so people can judgement on the situation themselves.

I have done the Friday night couchette for many years. I debated the overnight eurostar last year and after reading about the lights staying on all night etc I decided against it. Taking the couchette also allows for a few hours stop over in Paris should you choose and you get to go and grab some nice dinner at a restaurant somewhere which adds to the holiday IMO. Never mind actually being able to lie down and get some half decent shut eye. The chosen accommodation at the time has always been happy to give us breakfast and provide us with a room to get changed in and out on the slopes by 10:00am ish and the same on the Saturday afternoon/evening. 2 extra days skiing is not to be sniffed at! But I agree it is certainly not for everybody.

I think on that info I shall get my Friday/Sunday Eurostar tickets booked this evening snowHead

A snowHead

The SNCF would like to get rid of Corail and Night Train services and has proposed this to the Duron commission. M. Duron would like the routes to be opened to competition. One issue is the network operator would like to reduce night operations to allow more maintenance on the network and the government is encouraging replacing rail services with long distance bus routes. The Night Trains look almost certain to stop on routes where there is a TGV service.

Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?

I've been doing a bit of digging on this. Thanks to Davids mention of the Duron Commison I have found this article:

https://translate.google.co.uk/translate?hl=en&sl=fr&u=http://www.huffingtonpost.fr/2015/05/26/trains-intercites-menaces-rapport_n_7439516.html&prev=search

In particular this paragraph unless I am misinterpreting it?

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https://translate.google.co.uk/translate?hl=en&sl=fr&u=http://www.ledauphine.com/hautes-alpes/2015/05/26/la-commission-duron-ne-condamne-pas-le-paris-briancon&prev=search

And another article which gives special mention to the line however maybe stopping at Briancon?

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@Sowler, the locals were fully expecting the line to Briancon to be axed, but due to the recent closure of the road D1091 at the Tunnel du Chambon causing possible access difficulties, plans to close the line have been shelved. Briancon is the end of the line.

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From what I can read it doesn't seem clear. BSM is on quite a different line to Briancon so that seems safe in regards to night trains. But possibly as suggested by David above where there is TGV access (Like BSM) the night trains could stop.

Euro Rail Map

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@Sowler, yes Briancon is a completely different line to BSM. Trains to there run via Valence and there is no TGV service. Plans for that were suspended several years ago.

After all it is free

As some people still seem to be worrying. The latest from Bourg is that the normal TGV and EUROSTAR service to bourg is not likely to close and after October they hope the line is running normally again. It depends on the weather and if they can get the work finished quickly to protect the line after the landslide earlier this year. A limited train service is already running again. The night train might be stopped to save money as they claim it is not really needed with the late TGV train to paris. I hope they keep the night train, but not sure they will!

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I am a little perplexed about any plan to curtail the Snow Train to BSM. It is so successful that they created a Swiss doppleganger. Every time you try and book there are only one or two seats left and it ain't cheap so it must be highly profitable. Why axe it?? My better half thinks it's a cunning plan by SNCF but I pointed out that they are a huge investor in/owner of Eurostar so that made no sense. So I assume this cunning plan will have no effect on the Snow Train but may effect the overnight train from Paris. Has the Snow Train killed off the French offering?

Help!!

Intercity trains to Bourg to be ceased?

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