Poster: A snowHead
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After several seasons of instructor training I managed to get to a pretty strong standard of skiing - borderline ISTD tech level (I never actually took the exams but was told I could have reasonably had a shot at them). However the last two winter seasons i've lived back in London and although have managed to ski recreationally a fair bit (almost entirely off piste), i've not had much in the way of training or lessons, and have not been challenged much for the most part.
I felt last winter especially that my ability had regressed, which was pretty frustrating.
What would be the best way to hold on to/rebuild my skills without having to commit to a long training course? I'm primarily interested in off piste, steeps, ski touring etc, but I understand the fundamental skills are the same in all strands of skiing.
I'm thinking possibly a week of race training could be good, but it's not something i've done much of before (just the BASI L1 + L2 coach courses) and have no experience of a "race camp" type thing. A lot of people on these courses are aiming for the Eurotest or some other specific target, while my goal is a lot more vague!
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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musehead, Are you sure you are not just feeling the effects of reduced fitness ? I would expect someone who had done Coach 1 & 2 to be able to teach themself.
If you do just want to do a single week of race training then maybe consider doing it with philbo in Pila so that you are at a lower altitude than you would be on a glacier.
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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Ski lots. And decide whether you really want to be a technical god or what you actually want out of skiing ie are you going to be an instructor.. If you've done lots of off piste last season in good conditions and still not been fulfilled then I've got no advice to offer.
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I don't think there is a way. Your skills are there but you lose the exposure that you had when you were doing your seasons. It's hard to compensate for this. I agree that you should make up your mind.
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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give up the day job
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musehead wrote: |
What would be the best way to hold on to/rebuild my skills without having to commit to a long training course? I'm primarily interested in off piste, steeps, ski touring etc. |
Just do it....
but some race training will get you reacquainted with speed, which I find takes a little while to find again after a break....
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Join a race club based at one of the UK's artificial slopes and ski with them week in, week out all year round. You might think racing is not for you, but the discipline and technique cross over very well to off-piste.
In the London area, Aldershot have a fair number of older skiers some of whom are pretty damn good. Hemel from what I see is more based around the younger skier. Bromley/Chatham/Essex clubs I don't know well enough to comment.
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Keep skiing and stay fit. Perhaps weekly at a local UK race club plus some technical training in the alps as time allows? Depends on what your goal is. staying sharp or passing a GS race test. Perhaps a tech skills week aimed at instructors. The BASI L3 or L4 prep course would be a good start....
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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@skimottaret, don't inside out skiing do a tech skills week aimed at instructors in meribel ?
@musehead, as you are in london, why not go to hemel and work on a few of the fundamentals there?
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Watch "Blizzard of aaahs" daily.
Mirror neurons.
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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@under a new name,
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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@Little Martin, yes but aimed at L1 and L2 candidates, sounds as though musehead is an L3 instructor and our course wouldn't be appropriate.. There are loads of schools who do tech skills weeks for advanced instructor training, PDS training, Snoworks, Podium, All Mountain Snowsports, etc...
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You know it makes sense.
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@musehead, Ski race training on the dryslope --- cheap, fun and not BASI focused so therefore a good thing
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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@musehead, I've got to admit I don't really identify with your problem.. I appreciate that apprehension/retention (I just made that up ) vary wildly between individuals, but my experience post seasons was that I seemed to improve over the summers. Mind you, I was watching a lot of "Blizzard", et al.
And I find the first couple of runs of a season are enough to get back in the groove.
All that said, my only recent weekend of "race training" turned into a weekend of "you learned in the 80s we'll teach you how to ski like it's 2014" although it was excellent and has had profound positive results.
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Poster: A snowHead
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Thanks for the suggestions, i'm not going to be a ski instructor now, just hoping I can prevent a steady deterioration.
I'll definitely look into UK race skiing, also i'd forgotten about the L3 and L4 prep courses so could be worth a look too.
I'll crack out the blizzard of ahhs soon too, not seen it for a few years..!
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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If you don't want to be an instructor remember that skiing is supposed to be fun and technical perfection, top end speed etc doesn't matter as long as you are skiing where you want and having fun. You probably need to let go of "level" as a concept and think "terrain".
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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@Dave of the Marmottes, catchy. Sensible too
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@under a new name, +1. It's sort of what I've done, albeit as not such a good skier as the OP.
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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Dave of the Marmottes wrote: |
If you don't want to be an instructor remember that skiing is supposed to be fun and technical perfection, top end speed etc doesn't matter as long as you are skiing where you want and having fun. You probably need to let go of "level" as a concept and think "terrain". |
Id go with this. For ffaarrrr too many years I kept my racing head on, and would only ever ski groomed pistes and would spend all day trying to perfect each turn. Ive limited my skiing so much, and Off Piste I am pants. Luckily ive realised the error of my ways, and intend to be OP a lot more and ski more varied terrain - which will in itself improve my technique
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I think Dave of the Marmottes is right. You need to understand what you want from skiing. Is it your main sport that you want to set aims and challenges for, or is it a leisure activity that you want to enjoy and have fun at?
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@henzerani, or is it an excellent excuse for a long lunch on a sunny Alpine terrace with great mates and a few bottles of a nice local rosé?
All equally valid!
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under a new name wrote: |
@henzerani, or is it an excellent excuse for a long lunch on a sunny Alpine terrace with great mates and a few bottles of a nice local rosé?
All equally valid! |
Well that depends how rough the previous night was
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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@PaulC1984, which somewhat depends on how good the previous day's lunch was!
Etc.
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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under a new name wrote: |
@PaulC1984, which somewhat depends on how good the previous day's lunch was!
Etc. |
sleep, drink, ski, repeat
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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@musehead, another option might be a short break performance course. We run 4 day Pre-Season Tune Up courses early season in November in Tignes and usually have a strong group of skiers.
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You know it makes sense.
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@PaulC1984, I don't either. I ski, then I stop, then I drink. But we're off topic a bit.
I guess if I could afford it I'd ski more. And if I skied more I'd have different goals.
So, as long as the pocket is deep enough, I guess you probably should define what time you can give to it and how fit/injury free you are and set your expectations from that. Some people are happy to step down a notch and others find that they have to walk away. If you try some of the things suggested here for a while, you'll probably settle into something in a year or two. Change doesn't have to happen straight away nor does it have to be all of nothing.
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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Musing over it while having a beer on the beach (yep, I can feel my skiing skillz improving as that hot Mediterranean sun soaks in )
When I fisrt too a holiday after my last season, I think my skills were there but my fitness had been left somewhere very different, Gatwick Airport in the brain bin I suspect.
After an awesome first day and two days of serious all over full body muscle pain I was more or less back on track (helped that I was 26, not pushing, errrr, 50). First thing on return was joining a gym, which I more or less haven't stopped doing since.
I jave to work harder these days to stay there but I am thinking fitness and strength have a huge amount to do with even recreational skiingnperformance. I mean, it is a sport after all...
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Poster: A snowHead
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^agree with this. I reckon it takes a minimum 3-4 days to ski yourself ski fit each season. Not a problem if you're going to be clocking near 50 days as a fly-in, more of an issue if you bag 2 weeks tops at either end of the winter.
Or put it another way - I don't expect even World Cup skiers throw themselves straight into full pace gates on their first snow training day after the summer break (and they'll be doing off season conditioning work to make themselves even stronger than last year).
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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Firstly you need to decide exactly what you are training for.
Ask yourself what do you want out of your skiing ?
Your are right that the fundamental skills are the same in each discipline..
However just "practising skiing" wont make you better at off piste / slalom racing or freestyle unless you focus on that discipline.
So like fitness I would argue that ski training should be "specific".
It is a fact of reality for that reduced snow time will affect both your fitness and skills.
However skiing is a little like riding a bike - once you learn a skill (like skiing parallel or moguls for example) you don't forget it.
But it will take time on snow to get back to previous performance levels.
3 or 4 days probably isn't enough if you have previously done full seasons.
There isn't any escaping from this fact - but dry slopes and domes help in the off season.
... and dont forget the advice above that skiing is meant to be *FUN*
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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@Haggis_Trap, "once you learn a skill" (I'd submit "aquire") - yep, I agree. As long as it's dialled in to muscle memory... Maybe modern gapyear/intensive instruction courses don't do that?
When I did my seasons, I got to be a reasonably strong skier. Not anywhere near competition in anything but able to at least make a fair fist of anything.
And I tended to do that two or three days a week, everyweek. Some days better, some days not so well.
Point being a lot of variety, in terrain and conditions and a lot of skiing with blue/red run clients at their speed and a lot of self analysis.
Does that suggest better retention?
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
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Oh to be season on season improving I'd guess 14 days to get back to anywhere near level you left at, add 7 days for each winter since you last did a season. After a 5 year gap you'd be having to get 50 days in to stand still.
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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@Dave of the Marmottes, I don't think the add 7 days bit is cumulative. Nor that skill loss is so quick.
A chum who is ex world cup downhill took an 8 year break after a rather spectacular accident (he hit at tree at around 70kph) - but when he did get back on skis, it was really quite impressive...
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@musehead, Learn to tele
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IMHO, skill retention isn't the problem. But performance suffers from lack of practice.
Performance has more to do with fitness, especially ski-specific muscles that are not normally used off snow.
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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@Spike107, wrong! No.1 rule of skiing - don't ski to get fit, get fit to ski
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@musehead,
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and have not been challenged much for the most part.
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I think that is a key issue. I have a pretty decent set of techniques which I can blend to deal with the conditions I find but to be skiing at my best I have to keep testing myself - can I smoothly link short carved turns on real hard pack, can I ski that nasty cruddy offpiste with speed and smoothness, can I ski the fall line on those unfriendly bumps. I have enough tools that I can deal with all those conditions in a pragmatic / less demanding way but if I'm doing that my "feel" and confidence won't get back to their potential.
I've not had all that many lessons but in the last couple of privates (probably 5 and 10 years ago) both instructors were challenging me to ski fast and in long sections on difficult snow (off-piste) as a way of forcing you to be really balanced and centred.
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