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Snowfall early season - Historical Data?

 Poster: A snowHead
Poster: A snowHead
Hi, I've been searching for some information about snowfall early in the season, and I'm really struggling to find any meaningful information! I've been browsing the web, but all I can find are unqualified opinions such as "It's great", but I would really love to find some statistics to get a real understanding.

The reason that I ask is that my University ski club are currently planning our group trip for next December (11th - 18th) and we're worried about the snow that week, as it's not been the best that week in the last couple of years. To compound the problem we've been getting told all sorts of stories by tour operators, such as that "Avoriaz is the best resort for snow in that week" Puzzled , which seems pretty unlikely to me. Others have told us that Pas de la Casa is awesome for snow early season, but I hadn't heard that before either javascript:emoticon('Shocked') .

If anyone could provide me with a link to somewhere with historic snowfall or snow depth data I would be incredibly grateful and you would make a big difference to our Season next year! snowHead snowHead


Thanks, Luke Limbach snowHead
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 Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
The only resource I know of is the Scgb site

http://www.skiclub.co.uk/skiclub/snowreports/#.VVoXkGdFCpo

Tho' you may need to do some work yourself.......
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 Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
UWE_Snowsports wrote:
I would really love to find some statistics to get a real understanding.


Your problem is that everyone is selling themselves with snow depths, not presenting objective facts.

Higher is better, north facing is (much) better. That's physics, no statistics required.
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As you are talking about France then the resorts close to the Italian border: Montgenevre, Serre Chevalier etc. and the Pyrenees generally have better early season snow because the autumn weather pattern are storms in the Mediterranean that being moist air to those mountain ranges. The interior alpine ranges of the Savoie and Haute-Savoie are fairly dry in the winter, start of winter.

But no year is the same.
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 Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
I would be dubious of many resorts self reported snow depths. The depth of snow over the mountain is always highly variable. All depends where they choose to measure it. E.g deep sheltered hole. I have certainly been to resorts advertising 40cm of snow on lower slopes when I can't find anywhere with more than 10cm (and most places bare)
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@peanuthead, i think you have a reasonable point. Understandably, you (tge resort) will not measure the thinnest snow.

As a counterpoint, I can think of many, many places around the Portes du Soleil, Chamonix Valley and Grand Massif that, no matter how much snow falls, are always scratchy and rocky.
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 Then you can post your own questions or snow reports...
Then you can post your own questions or snow reports...
Search on J2ski for the resorts you want. Under the 'history' tab you will see a line graph of 3 seasons snow throughout the season.
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Thanks for the advice Very Happy the SCGB website shows that Alpe D'Huez and VT would have been the best resorts last year, but although they mentioned somewhere that they had 20 years of records I couldn't actually see any more than last season.

The specific resorts we have been offered are VT, ADH, Pas de la casa, Avoriaz and Les Arcs 1800 by the way.
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scottief wrote:
Search on J2ski for the resorts you want. Under the 'history' tab you will see a line graph of 3 seasons snow throughout the season.


Heading over to J2ski now..
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Just take VT. It's a lottery but at least you'll have the odds of highest resort in France in your favour. Of course you might get too lucky and be whited out all week but that's snow sports in early season.
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UWE_Snowsports wrote:


The specific resorts we have been offered are VT, ADH, Pas de la casa, Avoriaz and Les Arcs 1800 by the way.


If those are the choices then I'd go for VT too - if there's no snow at VT then there's a high likelihood that there won't be any anywhere! However at that height it might be cold enough for them to get the cannons going so that it's skiable.

The VT season starts in Nov, and they've got a pretty good record of having enough runs skiable by that start date.
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
Dave of the Marmottes wrote:
Just take VT. It's a lottery but at least you'll have the odds of highest resort in France in your favour. Of course you might get too lucky and be whited out all week but that's snow sports in early season.


VT is definitely looking like the best option, and it's my favourite too - but you won't be surprised to hear that the price reflects that!
We will probably end up going to VT because it's the safest option, but I was/am curious to know whether the claims about the other resorts are true, particularly if it could save £40+ pp. Pas de la casa is super cheap in resort too - but lacks culture I hear..
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Quote:

Pas de la casa is super cheap in resort too - but lacks culture I hear..

Laughing Val Thorens wasn't knee-deep in culture last time I was there.
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 You know it makes sense.
You know it makes sense.
pam w wrote:
Quote:

Pas de la casa is super cheap in resort too - but lacks culture I hear..

Laughing Val Thorens wasn't knee-deep in culture last time I was there.


That's not true. I've a copy of Madame Bovary in my flat.
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 Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
UWE_Snowsports wrote:
Thanks for the advice Very Happy the SCGB website shows that Alpe D'Huez and VT would have been the best resorts last year


Sorry who told you that again?


http://youtube.com/v/GsN0ge1Ruuc
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 Poster: A snowHead
Poster: A snowHead
davidof wrote:
... Sorry who told you that again?

Mileage varies, but from what I remember the problem with Alpe d Huez at least when I was there was that the higher stuff would get shut down, leaving those white strips.

Val T itself is high, but I'm not sure how much fun it would be in a poor snow year. If you have to pay your money then there it is.
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 Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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@UWE_Snowsports, this will sound weird but check the resorts fb page. For example, Ischgl (Austria) post's photos every year of fully groomed pistes for most of the mountain at the end of October into November, they open last week of November.

Probably one of the best resorts throughout Europe for early season snow due to being well placed to catch autumnal north sea storms tracking across Europe, high investment in cannons and meticulous grooming. Plus 200km of skiing at 2000m or above and good nightlife for the students, would be comparable in price to France and probs deals possible in the early season.
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
@UWE_Snowsports, a lot of slopes in ADH are south-facing, I think - slope aspect was brought-up be someone above, I think
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Bormio will open on the 28th November. About 50% to 70% of the slopes will be open. They manage this by making snow from about mid Octoer.
They don't want to be reliant on the snow god's.
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 Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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There will be 1000s of other students in Tignes that week - just like last year, the year before etc......
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Hi

This season just gone was the worst in about 50 years for early snow accross Europe, so statistically it will be unlikely to be as bad next season, so there is hope there.

I think that whoever is telling you avoriaz is the best possibly has a point, or at least it was the best last season. I was there the week running up to christmas, and you could ski, yes it was scratchy in places and in others actually very good. You could not get out of avoriaz into the rest of the Portes Du Soliel but you could ski.

Now what was really interesting was that you could not ski anywhere else. They were bus'ing people in from other resorts, you could not get ski passes for love nor money if you had not prebooked. I met one family who were booked in at Chamonix and there tour operator had switched them into Avoriaz

So I guess thats why your operator is recomedning Avoriaz, that is a double edged sword though becuase just because it was good this year does not guarantee next.

Secondly it was so busy that it took away some of the joy of it as there were a lot of people and very few slopes i was there for 2 weeks and I did not bother on the last two days of the christmas week too many people and they had destroyed the snow. Luckily (for us, a lot of people got stuck on the way home) there was a massive dump on changeover (saturday) and the second week there were less people and epic snow, don't worry I am not being too smug as I knackered my knee on the 3 day of this, so it was a mixed holiday for me.

A friend of mine has aparement in Les Arcs 1800 and it was terrible that week I cannot coment to the other resorts.

I would toss a coin or go later.

G
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 Then you can post your own questions or snow reports...
Then you can post your own questions or snow reports...
Yes, this happened in Val Thorens - the snow was good early in the season, so buses were coming in from other resorts. It got to a point that they stopped issuing passes unless you were staying in the 3 Vallees.
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 After all it is free Go on u know u want to!
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Quote:

This season just gone was the worst in about 50 years for early snow accross Europe, so statistically it will be unlikely to be as bad next season, so there is hope there.


Hmmm, no, statistically, there's no information available in last winters behaviour to suggest the behaviour of next winter. Independent behaviour as least as far as we can tell. Toss a coin, comes up heads. Does that mean tails are more likely next toss?
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OKay well anecdotally then

We have had good snow in Avoriaz since 2008/2009 season. So anecdotally one might suspect that after last years bad start we might in for a few years of decent ones. 2009/10 the following year was Beaucoup de neige
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@gordonrussell76, hmmmm, I'm afraid that's just wishful thinking. Anything could happen. Look at the dreadful 1988-89 and 1989-90

Although obviously, I do hope it's excellent!!
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gordonrussell76 wrote:
Hi

This season just gone was the worst in about 50 years for early snow accross Europe, so statistically it will be unlikely to be as bad next season, so there is hope there.



G


I don't think that works at all. The odds for a bad or good start to the season are completely unaffected by how good or bad last year's start was. Simple probability theory. The factors that go into determining the outcome are unrelated to what the weather was like last november/december.
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 And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
okay then optimistically speaking then Smile

Statistically to anecdotally to optimistically

Blooming maths sucking the joy out of EVERYTHING since 1207 Smile
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 So if you're just off somewhere snowy come back and post a snow report of your own and we'll all love you very much
So if you're just off somewhere snowy come back and post a snow report of your own and we'll all love you very much
Actually, there is great beauty and joy to maths, @gordonrussell76, but it swiftly turns ugly and unhappy when mis-used.
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 You know it makes sense.
You know it makes sense.
Indeed

E=MC2 = Hiroshima
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