Taking children out of school....

A snowHead

I have just done this for our two kids 9 and 6. We took them out for 5 days which equates to ten sessions, morning and afternoon.

We got a warning letter from the school and told not to have any other unauthorised absence for 12 months . . . Otherwise they would serve a penaly notice. A fair and reasonable approach I thought. I think each county council has their own guidelines . . Or just ask around at the playground . . That's where the real knowledge of what goes on is!!

Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?

@billb, yes, I laughed at that suggestion that £5K would only buy you a fairly rubbish sort of holiday. Laughing

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Oh yes, and I sincerely hope that our holiday will cost under £2500 (nevermind £5000), and that it will be great!

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@NickyJ, indeed. And in all seriousness yes you can reduce the overall costs by adjusting departure/arrival dates, self drive, self cater etc. But there will be fixed costs. Lift pass, kit hire (if needed).

Most folks would wince at the cost of my ski holidays but the simple fact is I get 2 full weeks off in a typical 12 months, I use 1 for the family ski holiday and 1 for the family summer holiday. I don't want to cook and clean i do that the other 50 weeks. I also want wherever possible spa facilities, ski in ski out. If you go with a TO in half term with 2 children (one who pays full price) you are going to pay more than £500pp

After all it is free

True - but it was more the idea that you couldn't have a 'great' holiday on less money. I guess it does come down to personal preferances, and whilst I would love to have the added extras of catering, ski in/out etc, affordability and my daughter's current fussiness regarding food make mean this isn't really an option. But my holiday isn't going to be any less 'great' because of this - it's got skiing afterall Very Happy

and the only real thing that is going to affect how good our holiday is is the amount of snow, something I have absolutely no control over Laughing

@ansta1, Yes, agreed, a TO holiday costs a lot and if you can afford it and it works for you then great. The point is that some of us can't afford it (or need the cash for other things) but can still have a great holiday.

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@billb, @annaa, yes of course the great bit was slightly tongue in cheek in response to the plastic surgery statement. I've had plenty of great trips for much less and some not so great for quite a lot.

We don't have any term time flexibility as mrs a is a teacher so we are stuck with peak weeks whatever level of accommodation and ski area we choose so will always pay a premium.

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That is fair enough @ansta1, I should have remembered that it was in response to that rather ridiculous scenario and as such should be taken with a pinch of salt. And judging by the webcams today, next week's skiing is going to be brilliant - so great holidays all round!

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@annaa,

You know it makes sense.

If you drive, the only part of a half-term holiday which costs more than any other week is the accommodation. Well, and ski lessons, but that difference isn't huge. The reason I wouldn't go downhill skiing at half term is the absurd crowds (looking at the Les Saisies website the queue for the main lift out of the bowl is silly, and the pistes look uncomfortably crowded by my usual standard. Crowds will be bigger next week, with Paris on holiday, even though there are very few half term Brits there).

My daughter and SiL are both teachers but they won't ski at half term (though they have free accommodation in my apartment) because they're so zonked after the teaching that they couldn't cope with the organisation of taking two littlies skiing, and dealing with the crowds, especially on piste. It takes them the week of half term to gear up for teaching the other half.

This year they're skiing twice - at Christmas and Easter. They're very keen. They'd take the kids out of school if they had that option.

Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:

I mentioned before (and got it in the neck 😳) that we've often taken children out and fibbed (aka lied) to the school about it to avoid even the chance of a fine. Interesting to see Nickyj actually did end up being fined and had her card marked to boot- sorry to see that!
Last week's More or Less programme mentioned earlier in posts is worth a listen as it shreds the logic behind saying as children who have a lot of time off school tend to do less well than those that don't, taking any time off is therefore going to as well, because poor social circumstance is a major compounding factor - basically both high absence rates and poor academic attainment are best predicted by poor social circumstance.
Funnily enough just yesterday as most of our children are on inset days or are free for the afternoon, we asked if we could spring the one who wasn't at lunchtime (given driving might be tricky with the forecast). We were told that wouldn't be possible, and it was a shame (😏) it wasn't for a dental appointment. My wife immediately "remembered" the dental appointment and all is good. Make of that what you will. 🙂

A snowHead

@Doccam, no I haven't been fined. Others have. My absence is below the threshold for being referred as it is one day.

A snowHead

Sorry thought it was you who posted. Glad to hear you weren't. Enjoy the week's skiing- that's the main thing!

Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?

I have yet to see any good reason for anyone to object to children being taken out of school for a week. There is simply no foundation at all to the criticism of parents who do so. It seems very strange to me that several people keep going on about what a bad thing it is to do - even though they cannot come up with any proven negative impact to anyone. And for sure I don't see anything that shows how it affects those who choose NOT to take their children out of school for a week. It is sanctimonious in the extreme to continue to criticise other parents when there is no rational foundation for your position.

For the record, I will be taking my children out of school for a week this year as I do every year. I don't have to explain or justify that decision to anyone here or elsewhere, and neither did the OP ask for comment on this point. If I am fined I will appeal and win, again. As a parent, and an adult in a democratic society, I have the right and responsibility to do what I think is best for my children so long as it does not negatively impact others. And any suggestion that slavishly following all rules and laws in all circumstances is a necessary function of a democracy just demonstrates a complete lack of understanding as well as a disconnect from reality. Every single person here has broken some law at some point - not least because lots of laws are patently daft and lots of people are ignorant of the laws that actually exist (e.g. it is illegal to sit an exam at Oxford unless you are wearing a sword - and I mean illegal not just against university regulations!).

There is actually a simple and effective legal way around this problem. Put your children in a ski school that is registered to provide outdoor eduction. Get a certificate that your children attended. This forms proof that your children were in eduction for the week, which also happens to be true, and that is all the law requires. Fight any suggestion that you were not responsibly education your children during that time.

The rest of you need to learn that HOW eduction is provided is up to parents and this is explicit in the law; you can choose the school you want, the school you choose does not have to follow any particular curriculum (and lots of private schools do choose to go their own way), home schooling is absolutely an option. And stop being so sanctimonious, just because you lack the imagination or means to exercise that choice does not mean you have the right to pass judgement on those who do. There is no way at all that you suffer if I take my kids out of school for a week so why on earth would you even have an opinion?

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@zikomo,

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Though I have to say I am feeling a little bit cheated at this point. The reason I was keen to get a week in at half term was to enjoy some nice cold snow conditions rather the very hot Aprils I have been getting the last three seasons of being a good girl and going at easter.... The forecast for next week has freezing point at over 3000 even at night and highs of 18!

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After all it is free

@zikomo,

@foxtrotzulu, +1

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@zikomo,
You raise some interesting points, I might be somewhat lax on my morals for school absenteeism but I can assure you I wouldn't dream of attending an exam in Oxford bereft of a sword nor would I condone any of my family behaving in such a manner.

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Interesting thread & some great arguments for/against.

FWIW I don't know how some have achieved skiing holidays at half term for £2500 [lift passes are generally £200pp]

In 2011 the last time we used a TO [Crystal] my family 3 kids mum & dad went to the Diva, Val Claret, Tignes think the base price was £1100pp [kids discount laughable] then we had lift passes on top to pay for.

Fortunately the kids are capable skiers & I think we only hired skis for our youngest daughter, no lessons to endure or pay for.

Don't want to even think about the total cost Mad

This is the cost when you abide by the rules, it is what it is & I guess that we all make a choice - enough said!

The following year [2012] we rented an apartment right behind the Diva [£1100 for the week] and drove from Lancashire, loaded the car up with everything we could, took provisions to get us through including nice wine & Peronis. Booked a hotel en route & were in resort [think] for around 10.30am

The other 3 families all went with Crystal & paid their extortionate fees, you get what you pay for.

I actually created a spreadsheet & think we did the holiday for 5 of us for less than 1/2 price in 2011.

2013 we did the same again with another family & rented in Bec Rouge, Le Lac, Tignes similar costs.

Ditto 2014 Les Menuires.

I guess it comes down to the individual whether you pull your kids from school, whist personally I would have done the OH wasn't agreeable hence we paid the going rate
rolling eyes

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Fundamentally this boils down to cost, wrapped up in other arguments around "it's good for them", "it's a life experience", "it's my and my kids life so I can do what I want". The reality is that there are plenty of times when you can go skiing with your kids and not flout the requirements/regulations. This is all about getting around the law of supply and demand which push prices up in half term (and other school holidays) and getting in at a time when it's cheaper by dodging the system. Clearly the odd exception but few and far between.

I doubt there is anybody genuinely arguing that they take their kids out of school as it's a better education to ski on empty slopes and pay less. Many tax payers get a bit brassed off with wasted money.

A better discussion point would be whether it is pure supply and and demand or whether there is organised profiteering.

Absence may or may not impact upon the child or other classmates' absence, but the simple fact is their is a requirement to be a school and well known consequences for not being there. Don't complain when the pre announced consequences present themselves.

You know it makes sense.

@uktrailmonster, one of the very few perhaps? Just to be clear, you don't have 4 or more consecutive days off in school holiday time December to May ?

Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:

@alti - dude, nail,head!

Everyone likes to highlight the edge case scenarios of families where both parents can't have time off together during the school holidays. We are such a family (apart from a couple of weeks in summer) and also have a school which would allow me to take the kids out, although we don't because we don't need to.

Even if both parents don't have seven consecutive days off in the school holidays, it's not necesarily an impediment to skiing in said holidays. None of our family ski holidays will involve a full week for all of us (my wife, me and the kids). Either my wife or I have to come back to the uk for work during all of them. I haven't noticed my children suffering from the absence of a complete 7days of contiguous holiday with both parents...

A snowHead

A snowHead

Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?

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Admittedly having only read the last 2 pages I can see there is 2 separate discussions going on here, there is the camp that remove their children from school a day early to make the trip a bit more financially acceptable and then there are the parents who remove their children from school for a complete week to have their holiday. What interests me is the reasons for the later, is it work commitment driven or financially driven? It would also be interesting to know if the parents who remove their children for a complete week go on a second week during the half term.
As for being disruptive to others, while it may not disrupt the class it certainly is disruptive in home with children constantly asking " why can we take the week off and go skiing?"

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@Jonny996, you may find it interesting to read my original post which basically was do I lie or fess up. Then this thread took on a life of its own (as snowheads often does).

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@miranda, just prompting a debate as to whether the pricing basis that makes many lie/cheat/break regulations/come up with paper thin excuses as to why "they just have to take there kids out of school otherwise the world would end" is down to pure market forces or down to other forces.

@Hells Bells @foxtrotzulu, suspect private chalet owners are fairly sensible and I've seen reasonable but not obscene tick up in prices but the large TOs seem to sometimes show a really big tick up.

@NickyJ, As I've said before - down to your own morals on if you lie or not but the wider dimension is that 'the tax payer' has paid for a school place free at the point of delivery and you cant be bothered to use it. I personally have a real problem with the notion of assuming something that is free at the point of delivery is in fact free - it's not. Many people are losing jobs in the pubic sector to save money and there is a purge on waste - why should the public be allowed to waste money without challenge? I know you will argue things like 'we are paying the the teachers anyway' and 'it's only one person in a class of 30 so it doesn't matter' but that's because you are in the minority of people who take the attitude that it's OK so most stay in school. PS it's not always a cost point - often a 'get organised point'. I will be out and back on a convenient flight for about £140 per person return, inexpensive car hire as I got organised and booked early.

After all it is free

@alti - dude, er you realise that for one of my children is in an independent school don't you?

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Taking children out of school....

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