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Help required choosing next years trip.

 Poster: A snowHead
Poster: A snowHead
Not sure if this is the right room to be posting this so feel free to move it Mr Admin sir!

The problem is this, the boarder in the group has corrupted us. With a bit of help form TDC Tignes, for the last 3 years or so he's been leading us astray and now we want more. We are all level 7 to 8 on the inside out scale.

As 3 of us will be 50 next season we want to learn to ski powder sooner rather than later. We went to B.C. last season (through skisafari) in search of the elusive fluffy stuff at Fernie and Kicking Horse and had a great time, despite it refusing to snow (properly) for the whole 2 weeks which was not the idea. (Yep, we did try cat and heli skiing and what a buzz!)
So where would you advise us to go for a 2 weeker in search of the soft and fluffy? We don't want to spend a fortune, tbh Canada was costly enough. Japan? Don't really know much about it despite reading mikepow's thread here and it seems to be quite expensive. Colorado has been mentioned too, but aren't they going downhill ( rolling eyes ) in terms of snowfall? Canada agian? Don't mind a 2 or 3 resort trip with hire car maybe.
I've never been to Whistler as most of the people I know who've been almost got addicted to the place, but all of them stopped going as apparently it rained too much.

We'd be going last week in Jan and first week in Feb to avoid any sort of crowd and to spread the holiday over 2 different months.

Thanks snowheads.
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 Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
If you want to stay in Europe, have a look at Valle d'Aosta. This Italian region has great Italian lifestyle and food, beautifull villages to live in and cities to visite, great skiing, both on an off piste. Monte Rosa: great accessible off-piste, tree skiing in Antagnod and numerous unmarked, but well-known runs thoughout the Champolus, Gresonney and Alagna Valleys. Have a look at the map below.

Also, great skiing in Cervinia and thus Zermatt and Coumayeur is just down the road. The beuaty is: there is one ski pass for the entire Valle d'Aosta, including Zermatt: http://www.skivallee.it/interna.asp?codpage=skipass_vd

Monte Rosa off piste map: http://www.monterosa.com/Portals/0/images/Pistmaps/Monterosa-off-piste-Map-Big.jpg
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 Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
You're going to get many suggestions!
However why not source a guide and let him make the call based on conditions?
A good guide can source accomodation, will have a van etc
Only issue is getting out to what ever country you end up in. But two weeks you should be flexible to find the snow. So driving out is best option.
This past week I've been all over the place hunting snow, from touring here in Serre, road trip(s) to Queyras and Monte Rosa and finally Via Lattea.
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If it's purely about powder then I would say Utah is the most reliable spot that I have come across, Alta and Snowbird are the best but there is also Brighton and Solitude. You could also tag on a week in Jackson Hole, Wyoming, it's about 4 hours drive from Salt Lake City.

In Europe I would say Chamonix is the best spot for sheer scale, convenience (lift access) and reliability. Although accessing the various areas is a pain if you don't have a car.

But wherever you go, you are hugely dependent upon the day to day conditions and there's no accounting for the weather.
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 Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
@Weathercam, I kind of thought it might be a thought provoking discusion with many different solutions.

@JeanPaulValley, it is mainly about the search for powder. And reliability is paramount.

I hadn't really thought about a 2 week road trip in Europe and the money saved on not travelling a huge distance could easily be spent on a guide. The only reservation about full on guiding is that the only one of us that is fit enough for full on guiding is our boarder and you know how much trouble they are when it comes to walking anywhere off piste! NehNeh

We do fancy a long haul though just cos it's not something we usually do.
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gixxerniknik wrote:

So where would you advise us to go for a 2 weeker in search of the soft and fluffy? We don't want to spend a fortune, tbh Canada was costly enough. Japan? Don't really know much about it despite reading mikepow's thread here and it seems to be quite expensive.


All in you're looking at £150-200 per person per day. Minimum duration would be 10 days IMHO.


Quote:
We'd be going last week in Jan and first week in Feb to avoid any sort of crowd and to spread the holiday over 2 different months.


Best time for snow.

Can get pricey with slopeside accommodation.

There's a gang of you, so rent a car/van and travel around. Cheaper once you get out of the Niseko bubble.
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 Then you can post your own questions or snow reports...
Then you can post your own questions or snow reports...
gixxerniknik wrote:


I hadn't really thought about a 2 week road trip in Europe and the money saved on not travelling a huge distance could easily be spent on a guide. The only reservation about full on guiding is that the only one of us that is fit enough for full on guiding is our boarder and you know how much trouble they are when it comes to walking anywhere off piste! NehNeh



Just because you have a guide it does not mean you're hiking / walking - all they do is take you to the big areas and know where to go off the lifts away from the masses.

Obviously if you don't mind a little walk that will open up far more options, but I'm not talking about touring for two weeks.
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 After all it is free Go on u know u want to!
After all it is free Go on u know u want to!
If it's powder you want yes go to Washington state cascade mountains . But if you want to do various conditions of off piste ie powder ,sugar ,corn , spring ,snow .its more about the quality of your guide ,booking a guide for a week will cost £60 a day eachfor 5 just being with them will teach you so much .enjoyment from my view its really about getting away from the crowd, get out there as much as possible #whatgivesyoulife . Steve
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Ah, once again, the elusive quest for the mythical resort where you ride powder straight off the lifts every day.

Here's the easy answer - it doesn't exist. Nowhere. Not in Canada, not in Utah, not in Japan.*

Going late Jan / early Feb will give you best chance of good conditions anywhere at all in the Northern Hemisphere.

My own view is that the best chance of guaranteeing good conditions is to go to a quiet resort in Europe, in late Jan, with access to high-altitude skiing and get a good guide to find you the goods. Probably applies more or less equally to US/Canada, but the high-altitude infrastructure is better in Europe.

In the end, you pays your money and you makes your choice.

*OK, maybe in Japan...
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@gixxerniknik, I wouldn't get so hung up on powder tbh, it only leads to disappointment. Seriously.

If you really want to go further afield? Japan or the Rockies. But I've skied weeks in Utah on firm snow and had an epic trip to Jackson Hole to go walking and ended up skiing thigh deep powder. You don't know what you'll get. Madam Snow is a fickle mistress.

But as a plan, a Euro road trip hunting the stuff could be a lot of fun.
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I think Canada ended up over the £200 per person per night mark mainly due to the cat and heli skiing, I know I could do it cheaper by going self catering which we don't mind. I don't think we want to spend any mpre though.

Japan is a bit daunting, and also a bit tempting because it's so different. Where would you recommend in Japan? I dont mind if its not ski in/out but dont want to spend too long each day getting to resort if we hire a car, (having commuted to London I'm not too fond of trains on my holiday.)
Silly question maybe but is it cheap to eat in Japan?

I think weathercams idea is a great one though and have put it to the group, but I think half of the group have their minds set on a long haul to somewhere a little different.
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 And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
under a new name wrote:
... I wouldn't get so hung up on powder tbh, it only leads to disappointment. Seriously.
Well, that's only true of if you're going to book something in advance (which you can't move) which is weather dependent. I get my powder fill every season, I just try harder. Tour operators aren't for people who are "hung up on powder".
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 So if you're just off somewhere snowy come back and post a snow report of your own and we'll all love you very much
So if you're just off somewhere snowy come back and post a snow report of your own and we'll all love you very much
removed cos I clearly can't read.


Last edited by So if you're just off somewhere snowy come back and post a snow report of your own and we'll all love you very much on Mon 30-03-15 18:23; edited 1 time in total
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 You know it makes sense.
You know it makes sense.
under a new name, in the last 10 years we've had a pretty good success rate - bar a year going to Whistler when it rained again Sad

Had some of the biggest storms the ski areas we visited had that season Madeye-Smiley Madeye-Smiley To the point this year some lifties at one area remarked that we always have good snow - and weren't best pleased when we told them we were moving on Toofy Grin Couple of days later Snowbird where we were had the biggest storm that year, breaking their drought of 45 days.

So no guarantees but I'm happy where I pick to ski, one year we only saw the sun for 3 days out of 14 days skiing, the rest was snowing Smile
Quote:

Going late Jan / early Feb will give you best chance of good conditions anywhere at all in the Northern Hemisphere.

I wouldn't totally agree with this tho wink
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 Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Another vote here for finding a good guide, taking their advice on where to go (you want good terrain; anywhere is good in pow but there are a few places that are awesome even without it...) and driving out with a small group for maximum flexibility. We did just this in early Feb and had a cracking week without a flake of fresh snow...until the last day that is.

'No such thing as poo-poo snow, just poo-poo skiers' wink
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 Poster: A snowHead
Poster: A snowHead
Think a fair few are agreeing with "road trip avec guide" !

Have not done Japan (many mates have), have done Killington ( Crying or Very sad ) and Crested Bute ( Toofy Grin ) but........

How is it when in Europe I l hear so many North Americans saying how "awesome" it is...........

Back late last year I was fortunate enough to interview Jermey Jones and he was so impressed at how we live in Serre, close to LG (yawn, yawn)

You only have to look at how many "Yanks" decamped to La Grave............

For sure Grannies in their 70's have skied thigh deep powder in Japan but could they ski La Grave / Chamonix?

A good guide, as has been confirmed in various posts above will give you a trip to remember.

That said, I had my only little buzz today (sans guide / tout seul) finding a new route - so it's a big wide world out there....
http://snowheads.com/ski-forum/viewtopic.php?t=112977&start=520
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 Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Weathercam wrote:

Have not done Japan (many mates have)...

For sure Grannies in their 70's have skied thigh deep powder in Japan but could they ski La Grave / Chamonix?...


OP's comments "As 3 of us will be 50 next season we want to learn to ski powder sooner rather than later."

I've been lucky to ski many of the renowned powder destinations around the world when they've been on and IMHO there is no better place for recreational skiers straight off the plane to ski powder off the lifts than the Shiribeshi area of Hokkaido, Japan.

Niseko United, Niseko Moiwa, Rusutsu, Kiroro, Sapporo Kokusai, Asari, Otaru Tenguyama

Ski areas big and small that will deliver a powder experience over a 10 day period.

This was the snowfall for Kiroro this winter starting on 22 November 2014:

The bolded weeks are the last week of January and the first week of February

Week 1 - 5 cm
Week 2 - 47 cm
Week 3 - 60 cm
Week 4 - 200 cm
Week 5 - 100 cm
Week 6 - 140 cm
Week 7 - 165 cm
Week 8 - 64 cm
Week 9 - 90 cm
Week 10 - 43 cm
Week 11 - 78 cm

Week 12 - 88 cm
Week 13 - 65 cm
Week 14 - 30 cm
Week 15 - 60 cm
Week 16 - 165 cm
Week 17 - 10 cm
Week 18 - 20 cm
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 Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Quote:

For sure Grannies in their 70's have skied thigh deep powder in Japan but could they ski La Grave / Chamonix?

The OP said that his group "wants to learn to ski powder". They are not claiming to be as gnarly as you or looking for the most challenging terrain and Mike Pow's suggestion sounds exactly what they - recreational skiers like most of us - are looking for.
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OP's comments "As 3 of us will be 50 next season we want to learn to ski powder sooner rather than later."

So they all go off to Japan and "learn" to ski powder.

The following year they then attempt to ski "powder" in Europe and find they can't because it's not powder that they are use to (don't have the technique).

Mates son last week in MonteRosa stopped skiing with us and the guide as he could not handle the heavy powder rolling eyes

The above is probably the reason I seem to be rather condescending towards Japan as said boy had been there twice.

I'm sure MikePow will agree that there's skiing powder in Japan and then there's skiing powder in Europe.
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 Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Weathercam wrote:
OP's comments "As 3 of us will be 50 next season we want to learn to ski powder sooner rather than later."

So they all go off to Japan and "learn" to ski powder.


No better place to learn to ski unconsolidated, soft snow IMHO.

Unlike areas where the snow density is much heavier, you don't have to tackle steep terrain to ski powder on Hokkaido.

You can ski powder on green pitch terrain. This slows down the acceleration at the start of the turn - the problem area for many people in powder - allowing more time to get balanced with the snow and the terrain and link smooth turns.

As an example, here are the Lovelocks and Craig warming up on a green run and green pitch terrain at Kiroro


http://youtube.com/v/u7FkMRWlKxc


Quote:
The following year they then attempt to ski "powder" in Europe and find they can't because it's not powder that they are use to (don't have the technique).

Mates son last week in MonteRosa stopped skiing with us and the guide as he could not handle the heavy powder rolling eyes

The above is probably the reason I seem to be rather condescending towards Japan as said boy had been there twice.

I'm sure MikePow will agree that there's skiing powder in Japan and then there's skiing powder in Europe.


My girlfriend Nerys went ok when she skied powder in Courcheval in March - her first ski trip without me.

Think it may be more about your mate's son and his lack of technique, not Europe powder v Japan powder.

But in general the powder is consistently drier & lighter on Hokkaido than Europe.
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Well there's not much powder round here at the moment, at medium altitudes. People will probably wax eloquent about knee deep powder but it's more like knee deep leg-breaking cement. I think that Japanese powder looks fantastic fun and I'd like nothing better than some lessons in it.

(and yes, I have skied La Grave - and that video above looks like a lot more fun).
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Mike Pow wrote:

Think it may be more about your mate's son and his lack of technique......


That's what I mean, skiing easy green / blue gradient run powder in Japan you can get away with a lack of technique, come back to the sort of powder we often get and it's a whole different technique required.

For sure it's fantastic fun skiing light champagne powder, (and if only we have more days like that), but more often than not that's not the case, or you'll find it a top a glacier at 3500 but by the time you drop down to 2500 and lower down you'll be struggling if you don't know how to ski.

What's the average vertical in some of the main stream resorts in Japan then ?

And not wanting to turn this into a "dissing" Japan thread, but another mate who has done Japan a number of times says it's not worth going to the main resorts and will now only go with a guide to explore further afield.

Guide in question is very well known as most European guides use "Hiro" when taking groups to Japan.

Jeeees I just looked at that video, just straight lining off the piste into some powder straight lining again - the Grannies Vid was far better, suppose I can see why Pam w thinks that's better than LG rolling eyes
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 After all it is free Go on u know u want to!
After all it is free Go on u know u want to!
Quote:

suppose I can see why Pam w thinks that's better than LG

Why always so disdainful, @Weathercam, with your superior rolling eyes? I didn't say it was better, I said it looked like more fun. Which I suspect would also be the opinion of many other recreational skiers, not only the grannies you're so fond of sneering at.
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@pam w, I think the Grannies vid is brilliant, and I seem to recall that was the title of the vid, something like Five Grannies shred the Powder - did try to find it but I'm sure someone will come up with it.

I think you'd find that most people that post in the Off Piste thread aspire to be more than just green / blue gradient skiers even in powder rolling eyes rolling eyes

XXX
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Oh oh maybe I'm talking bollox - could have sworn it was Japan


http://youtube.com/v/dXSuWvdnvHg
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Quote:

I think you'd find that most people that post in the Off Piste thread aspire to be more than just green / blue gradient skiers even in powder rolling eyes rolling eyes

So what? Snowheads is a Broad Church, though perhaps you haven't noticed. The OP wants to learn to ski the "soft and fluffy", not tackle the toughest terrain in the Alps and post lots of POMBAs. rolling eyes rolling eyes

And he did query at the outset whether this was the right part of the forum (which it surely is).
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 And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
Quote:

POMBAs


Please translate. PM me if it's too rude.
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 So if you're just off somewhere snowy come back and post a snow report of your own and we'll all love you very much
So if you're just off somewhere snowy come back and post a snow report of your own and we'll all love you very much
Pictures of Myself Being Amazing
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 You know it makes sense.
You know it makes sense.
@gixxerniknik, if you want the best chance of soft and fluffy then I would have to 2nd Japan.

Yes Europe and the USA can have great fresh snow, they can also have 2 weeks with no new snow, which would be rare in Japan.

Sure Japan doesn't have the vertical of Europe, nor the steeps.

If I had a Tardis and I could get an instant no notice day off work I'd ski Europe.

If I was planning a "must ski powder" trip over two weeks I'd go to Japan.
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 Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
@pam w, Laughing Laughing Laughing A response worthy of archetypicalwillywaver! Love it when weatherspam tries to prove he's not talking bolloxs. I'd always ask someone like MikePow for advice on this kind of topic as his reports are always so much more factual and more about others' than his own prowess or secret unnameable stashes! Toofy Grin Toofy Grin
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 Poster: A snowHead
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under a new name wrote:
@philwig, uhhh, OK, you book a trip for 3 people for two weeks to a pre-fixed location on fixed dates and guarantee powder. rolling eyes

If you can do that, I'll pony up the start funds and this time next year, Rod-philwig-ers, we'll be millionnaires!!!
I guess we're typing in a different language as that was precisely my point.
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 Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Oh here we go again, what a surprise, the @Samerberg Sue, as ever rolls in to support @pam w, and take the opportunity have a go without having actually taken part in the discussion.

And pam w as is so often the case stirs things up by being the Forum Headmistress

@Samerberg Sue, seem to recall it was you who once recommended to someone who was asking about a town with walking distance to the lifts you suggested Grenoble Laughing


Last edited by Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person on Mon 30-03-15 16:32; edited 2 times in total
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 Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Quote:

You can ski powder on green pitch terrain. This slows down the acceleration at the start of the turn - the problem area for many people in powder - allowing more time to get balanced with the snow and the terrain and link smooth turns.
As an example, here are the Lovelocks and Craig warming up on a green run and green pitch terrain at Kiroro


Hang on Mike - that video looks really lovely but I don't think it quite makes your point! I mean no one is doing any turns. It's pretty easy to straightline European "powder" too - its being able to practice turns without losing too much speed that is the issue. If the video showed them skiing powder 8s on a green run pitch then I'd see what you were trying to say Very Happy
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just compounding the error

snowHead snowHead snowHead snowHead snowHead snowHead snowHead


Last edited by You need to Login to know who's really who. on Mon 30-03-15 18:24; edited 1 time in total
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 Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Weathercam wrote:
Oh here we go again, what a surprise, the @Samerberg Sue, as ever rolls in to support @pam w, and take the opportunity have a go without having actually taken part in the discussion.

And pam w as is so often the case in the first place stirs things up by being the Forum Headmistress

@Samerberg Sue, seem to recall it was you who once recommended to someone who was asking about a town with walking distance to the lifts you suggested Grenoble Laughing
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We heard you the first time, @Weathercam. Laughing

You obviously pay very little attention to what goes on in snowheads if you think @Samerberg Sue always agrees with me. We actually make up our own minds.

There are some exceptionally good skiers - of all kinds - who are regular posters on SHs. But thankfully there are remarkably few (in fact I can only think of two off the top of my head) who seem to set out either to disdain those of lesser ability or to tell us constantly how frightfully good they are. In the case of one of them I only know how good he is because a ski instructor told me so. No POMBAs so I have no idea what he looks like.
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 Then you can post your own questions or snow reports...
Then you can post your own questions or snow reports...
here is some Japan and Euro footage, not straight line, just me an average skier who has skied out of bounds in USA, off piste in Europe inc England and Scotland!

First from Stuben on a good day out of a weeks holiday


http://youtube.com/v/O0Pu6rkFQn8

Then from Japan to give you an idea of typical visibility steepness, this was after a hike out of a gate


http://youtube.com/v/sZaL5bk4QaY

and a rare day with good vis...


http://youtube.com/v/iVEkAzMnx5o
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 After all it is free Go on u know u want to!
After all it is free Go on u know u want to!
@under a new name,

I think philwig's point was that you need to remain flexible and go where the conditions are! If you can go late Jan / early feb then that is probably doable?

But if I had to answer your question I would say that this place comes quite close:

http://www.micaheli.com/the-skiing

"Accessed exclusively by helicopter, our five hundred square miles of terrain is comprised of eleven valleys each with its own distinct flavour for adventure. Mica's unique location where the moisture-laden air from the Pacific Ocean collides with the cooler, drier arctic mass of the Canadian Rockies, blankets our operating area with up to sixty feet of snow each year. "

As I understand it, the location on the west slope of the Rockies is a little breezier than most and doesn't suffer much from fog that CAN keep the heli grounded in other BC areas. The fairly small lodge, small group/A-star heli and 500 sq miles means that you get your own powder even if it hasn't snowed in a while.
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@kitenski,

Love the Stuben vid - looked fantastic!
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@jedster, actually, I read it that he could decide today for fixed dates and locations exactly where to ski next year for powder.

Pretty impressive and cool if he can. i'm not investing until tested wink
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