 Poster: A snowHead
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@dode,
Think my trip was '82 too. Community centre / youth hostal kind of thing. I remember quite a long walk (near a lake?) to the lifts. My first plane ride too.
We were allowed our own ski time on our trips provided we stayed in a group.
Actually I met one teacher who had led that trip a few years ago, He was a brilliant guy and did lots of canoeing / climbing / backpacking etc with us even through the '80s teachers strikes when most were working to rule. I asked him if he would still be able to do those activities in the modern HSE environment and he laughed bleakly "no chance - that's why I took early retirement". I actually sought him out to thank him for giving me these experiences that left me with a life-long love of the mountains. I hate the fact that kids are missing out on those adventures today. I know kids can still do a lot of this stuff but in a really sanitised way that denies them the responsibility, team work and independent decision making that we had.
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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| dode wrote: |
@jedster, My first school trip was to Voss as well. In fact we shared digs (seemed community centre-like, iirc) and lessons with a school from NE England. One of the guys from that school broke his leg on a jump and the rest of us, thinking the instructor was waving us on, not shaking his pole telling us to stop, all had to narrowly avoid him as he lay in agony. It was '82 as I remember the NE English kids telling us we were at war when they turned up, we must have arrived a day or so earlier.
Coach was never an option for us (far too far away) so most of us got our first ride in a plane.
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Most schools aren't now allowed to let the kids ski outside of lessons
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I wonder when that started? As we were definitely allowed our own ski time. |
Look up Austrian school trip sledging tragedy...
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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School ski trips aren't designed for snowHeads. If your kids want to go, they will enjoy it, but many of you will just pick holes in every part of the trip. School ski trips are for the kids of people who don't ski, and can't take their kids on multiple family ski trips, but want to give them the opportunity to try something that we have all fallen in love with.
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This. A thousand times over.
Thanks to Mrs Skiing Teacher for running the school ski trips and letting me have the opportunity to go ski! 
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| AthersT wrote: |
| T Bar wrote: |
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Taking kids to the East coast is ridiculous. It's generally cold and icy. It's teachers wanting to go shopping for a day....
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My understanding is that the main rationale for taking school trips to USA is it is far easier to control access to alcohol and the East coast is a fair bit cheaper to arrange than the west. |
Snowed alot when I was there but was cold and one day when we did night skiing it was -30C!
Still it was absolutely brilliant. |
If teachers organise an East coast ski trip it's because they fancy an East coast ski trip.it is cheaper than the west coast but not great value for money for your average school kid. Tie it in with Boston and New York and it's a better deal but it does make it very expensive for your average family to find the funds.
If you want a trip where kids learn to ski and make it as accessible to as many as possible then you generally look at Austria, Italy or Andorra.
France can be reasonable but is generally expensive on the mountain.
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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France can be reasonable but is generally expensive on the mountain
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Does that matter? We always had packed lunches?
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@jedster, a long walk and a lake rings a bell. Would be funny if we were both on the same trip.
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| kat.ryb wrote: |
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School ski trips aren't designed for snowHeads. If your kids want to go, they will enjoy it, but many of you will just pick holes in every part of the trip. School ski trips are for the kids of people who don't ski, and can't take their kids on multiple family ski trips, but want to give them the opportunity to try something that we have all fallen in love with.
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This. A thousand times over.
Thanks to Mrs Skiing Teacher for running the school ski trips and letting me have the opportunity to go ski! |
Ditto. I would never have gone skiing if it wasn't for school skiing trips. I went on four of them and was deeply hooked on the very first day, but there's no way my grandparents would have ever dreamed of taking me skiing. So my contributions here, my holidays, many valuable friendships and my general health and wellbeing are entirely attributable to the fact that two of my school teachers wanted to share their love of skiing with their pupils. Hurrah!
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@cameronphillips2000, I went to the Canadian East Coast - Quebec. We had a half day shopping on the way home because it fitted in with our flight layover. You would have to very naive to believe that the teachers selflessly give up their precious holidays just for the lovely, sweet children. To be fair I say good on them, at the end of the day I wouldn't want to partly resposible for a group of 80+ kids, who can be an absolute nightmare when away from the discipline of their parents. I know I certainly wasn't always good as gold.
Also I believe it is far easier to persuade parents to part with cash for a trip to Canada or the USA as it is much further and it would be perceived to be better value for money as their child is going further/seeing the world. Certainly the ski trips my school ran to Canada and the USA had a far greater uptake though were substantially more expensive than the European trips which were largely undersubscribed previously.
Nowadays I believe they do Austria, mostly on the back of the popularity of the North American trips which increased the numbers and gained good reviews.
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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My son went to Lecht in Scotishland last Feb, just one day after we arrived back from Italy.
Cost was around £180 and included everything, departed monday morning around 4am, back late friday buy coach from Littleborough (350 miles).
Snow was crap, skiing was crap, they wouldn't let any of the better skiiers any higher than those who hadn't skiied in theor short little lives - crap.
That said he enjoyed the holiday and had a good time with his mates and just spent the few hours of skiing each day showing one of the school teachers how to ski backwards.
From skiing and paying parents point of view, not very good value for money but from a kids point of view... Whats value for money?
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| AthersT wrote: |
| @cameronphillips2000, You would have to very naive to believe that the teachers selflessly give up their precious holidays just for the lovely, sweet children. To be fair I say good on them, at the end of the day I wouldn't want to partly resposible for a group of 80+ kids, who can be an absolute nightmare when away from the discipline of their parents. I know I certainly wasn't always good as gold. |
For teachers it's a trade off. You give up your time off and deal with the kids to get a couple of hours each day on the snow. Many of us would not even consider this a holiday or worth the aggravation. The teachers are generally 'on duty' from 7am until 10pm.
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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| Mike-H wrote: |
| AthersT wrote: |
| @cameronphillips2000, You would have to very naive to believe that the teachers selflessly give up their precious holidays just for the lovely, sweet children. To be fair I say good on them, at the end of the day I wouldn't want to partly resposible for a group of 80+ kids, who can be an absolute nightmare when away from the discipline of their parents. I know I certainly wasn't always good as gold. |
For teachers it's a trade off. You give up your time off and deal with the kids to get a couple of hours each day on the snow. Many of us would not even consider this a holiday or worth the aggravation. The teachers are generally 'on duty' from 7am until 10pm. |
I know thats a bit mental if you ask me...I know that their trips are subsidised or paid for but to me it's not worth it and would rather pay and have a week away without the school kids.
Mind I'm 26, don't have kids nor at this point want them and I can't imagine myself as a teacher. Me and my OH have been together for 5 years and we very selfish and both like to spend our money on us and our 3-4 holidays a year  she decides the summer ones, I decide the winter ones!
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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to me it's not worth it and would rather pay and have a week away without the school kids.
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So would most people. So it's fortunate for those kids who enjoy school ski trips and the parents who like to treat them to one, that some teachers are prepared to do it.
As a 6th former I once, with a friend, spend a week helping on a Brownie camp. We weren't paid and didn't go skiing.  When I was about to go, giving up a week of my holiday, I wished I'd not volunteered but in the end it was rewarding. There was one rather sad little homesick girl, finding it very hard to fit in. I took it upon myself to try to make sure she had a really good time - and in the end, she did! It was immensely satisfying watching her bounce happily up to her Mum at the end, eager to tell her all about it.
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I also rather enjoyed not letting one of the spoilt, demanding, ones get her own way all the time. 
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You know it makes sense.
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I've been on them as a student and led them as a teacher. I also oversaw whole school trips as a Vice Principal and saw many types of trips schools offered.
As a rule, school trips should be accessible to as many as possible and good value for money. If staff had presented me with a trip to Vermont or even Tignes I'd had told them to come back with something that more kids' families could afford.
I did many types of school trip over the years but the ski trips were the most demanding due to the very long coach journey either end. I often didn't ski as I was back with a sick child or at the medical centre but I loved watching the enjoyment the kids got from it. I did the Duke of Edinburgh trips, Paris, Venice, Disney and many more besides but nothing was as rewarding as the ski trip for seeing smiles on faces. I gave up doing them when I had my own children as half term was about the only time I got to spend time with them.
We always took them for some dry slope sessions first as I always felt it was a lot of money to spend to spend the first few days learning how to stand up. Most kids would go from the tip of the mountain by the end of the week. The boarders would generally progress very quickly after the first few days. I hope my own kids go on their school ski trip. It's a fantastic experience.
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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"For teachers it's a trade off. You give up your time off and deal with the kids to get a couple of hours each day on the snow. Many of us would not even consider this a holiday or worth the aggravation. The teachers are generally 'on duty' from 7am until 10pm"
I don't know if you've led or been part of a school ski trip, but I can guarantee you that the teachers are not 'on duty' from 7pm until 10pm. They are on duty from the moment the coach leaves the school grounds, to the moment the kids are presented back to their parents 9 days later. 24 hrs a day for 8 days. It's no holiday.
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Poster: A snowHead
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Our school ski trip was to Romania. I was at middle school at the time, but didn't even take the letter home as I knew my parents wouldn't have been able to afford it. By the time I was at upper school my parents would have been able to afford it (brother and sis both left school and working and mum working full time), but the school didn't have a ski trip then. I did do loads of climbing, canoeing type weeks away with school though, as a serial paper round do-er I paid for a few of them myself.
Jnr is off to Kuhtai next half term. Think it's costing £900. He goes skiing with school to a fridge every week and is likely to be the best skier there (not big headed, just he's skied a lot). He's quite willing to go along with whatever he has to do as he just wants to have a laugh with his mates. For us part of the appeal is a quiet life for a week! We're teachers too and will get a very rare week to ourselves! He did a school trip to Belgium earlier in the year, there and back in a day - they all had a great laugh stuck on a coach for the best part of 12 hours.
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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From skiing and paying parents point of view, not very good value for money but from a kids point of view... Whats value for money?
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Maybe should read "from a kids point of view... What's money?"
I cant recall being too aware when a kid, and ours now something similar for good or bad. I blame the parents! Namely myself 
@cameronphillips2000, good on you for your commitment in keeping them affordable. I sometimes get the impression that those organsiing trips dont think that way, not what you want/can pay its how much have you got.
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@Arctic Roll, Fantastic, I've never met anyone (other than them on my trip) who'd ever heard of Pfunds, let alone been there!
Happy days - the Haus Tyrol in the main street with Jack the Ripper by Screaming Lord Sutch on the jukebox (it was 1974 or 75!), a lovely waitress/barmaid called Hannelore, my first taste of schnapps, hiding the beer from the teachers in the cellar bar, a very serious headache!
And some skiing! Lace-up boots and cable bindings!
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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@ster, maybe you can't blame other trip organisers for going for a more expensive options. It's using up their holiday and it's not like teaching is a very high paid job - possibly it's the only way some can afford to ski.
The kids I teach are too young, but I'd be up for going away at least for one half term to see what it's like. I might manage a PGL trip later in the year though.
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@LOTA, OMG - were we on the same trips?! you're bringing it all back.
A very astute teacher, knew we'd been drinking, his revenge was inviting us to " learn to play bridge" in that cellar bar with him and his wife. (resulting in a life long commitment to the game, so it wasn't all bad - it was just very, VERY difficult when slightly tipsy, well under age, to behave well under such scrutiny. And he knew it...). Don't think I ever got quite so intimate with the bar-staff as you tho!
We also managed, accidentally, to set the lampshade on fire somewhere in town during a fondue evening, as the oil bubbled over into the flames.
Happy days.
Also did my DoE there in the summer, camping in the Nauders fields where we'd ski'd, then heading into the mountains for the hiking and exploring part of things. Measuring flow rates of a glacial river if I recall...
And I still have the medal from doing the DreiLanderEkestein - spelling? Walk (a stone marking where the three countries, Italy, Austria, Switzerland's borders meet up in the hills: local annual festival walking up through the woods - to check it is still there I guess?)
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@hammerite, You really cant think that about teachers. I would really be disappointed if their minds worked like that, no matter what they were paid. Cant go into teaching thinking that way, surely. Don't think they are out to squeeze the pips it just seems to be an arms race of the biggest and best trip or better than last year like the olympics, then gets a momentum all its own. There needs to be some perspective applied as @cameronphillips2000 did.
(And they get plenty of holidays so I dont shed any tears on that front)
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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[quote="hammerite"]@ster, and it's not like teaching is a very high paid job -
you are being ironic aren't you?? I'd swap!!
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[quote="hammerite"]@ster, and it's not like teaching is a very high paid job -
you are being ironic aren't you?? I'd swap!!
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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what's stopping you? They're keen to get mature teachers with experience in other walks of life.
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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@pam w, How mature?
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| james75 wrote: |
"For teachers it's a trade off. You give up your time off and deal with the kids to get a couple of hours each day on the snow. Many of us would not even consider this a holiday or worth the aggravation. The teachers are generally 'on duty' from 7am until 10pm"
I don't know if you've led or been part of a school ski trip, but I can guarantee you that the teachers are not 'on duty' from 7pm until 10pm. They are on duty from the moment the coach leaves the school grounds, to the moment the kids are presented back to their parents 9 days later. 24 hrs a day for 8 days. It's no holiday. |
If you read my earlier comments you would see that Mrs H is the teacher not me.
I am quite aware of the crap she deals with and understand why she is thinking of not doing it next year.
But.... she does get a few hours to ski each day and gets a small amount of social time with colleagues (not much, granted)
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You know it makes sense.
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no idea - but if you are qualified to teach maths or sciences, especially physics, you might find something. But if it's such a great job, why haven't you swapped already?
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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Unfortunately there are many people wanting to switch to teaching and whilst maturity is in your favour you need to put in some ground work first. Getting qualified, or being a teaching assistant, volunteering, demonstrating you have teaching experience.
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Poster: A snowHead
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I did twenty years in various postions in various schools, usually challenging. Three years of Michael Gove and I decided to try something else for a while
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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But if it's such a great job, why haven't you swapped already?
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I don't recall him saying it's a great job. He said it wasn't that badly paid a job.
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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@ster, I'm not thinking that badly of teachers - I am a teacher myself. I'm sure many don't think about going for more expensive trips so they can get better skiing for themselves. I'm just saying that it must go through some of their minds and I wouldn't blame them for that. Although I'm sure most who are in positions to organise, plan and make decisions on ski trips are more experienced, have a level of responsibility and therefore further up the pay scale.
@broadsman, not being ironic at all. I'm a mature newly qualified teacher. I am lucky that I have had a career before moving into teaching and a partner who also works full time. So whilst I am on relatively poor pay like all NQTs not living in London (£22k) I can still afford to go skiing off my own back (with my family) during school holidays. I do love my job and am not complaining at all. I didn't move in to teaching for money, I left a job that was above what I could be paid if I topped out of the main pay scale (which is around £32k). I moved in to teaching because I wanted a job I would enjoy more. Whilst I'm not wanting to bang the overworked underpaid drum, teachers do not get paid very much, especially given the responsibility we have. Even given the perk of school holidays (that usually get thrown at teachers in discussions about pay/work) I'm working around 600 hours more a year than my previous job where my entitlement was 23 days plus public holidays. If I was a new graduate going in to teaching it would be likely that I would have been studying 4 years and have £30k+ of debt - although many I know like that have moved back home with their parents!
Sorry that was all a bit long winded and completely off topic!
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
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left a job that was above what I could be paid if I topped out of the main pay scale (which is around £32k).
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The idea isn't that you top out at that tho... you are meant to move on up. For example, being head of English, or head of year or whatever.
Thats like me saying 'being an accountant at the big4 tops out at £35k' Which it does, if you don't take on any managerial level roles.
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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@TheGeneralist, he said he'd swap. Hence my question. 
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I haven't helped out on a ski trip, but I once helped out a mate and his Mrs on an "outward bound" type four nighter.
She was a teacher, he's a mountain leader and we took her class off hill walking, map reading, climbing etc.
Great fun. I did it for the crack.
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Recessions are great for education is lots of high calibre people join the profession who would not usually apply in a buoyant economy. The last 6 years have been great for recruiting teachers. The money's not great for the workload and stress but people aren't generally in it for the money. There's generally job security, a good pension, holidays and sickness benefits though which is a lot in today's world.
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@kat.ryb, most teachers go in to teaching to teach. Once you take on head of roles that starts to erode as does the contact time with the children. Some teachers also don't want promotion. I'm torn at the moment, I went from a job where I was stuck in meetings, working with budgets and twiddling with data all the time, which seems to be what many senior leaders do.
'Promotion' isn't guaranteed, neither is climbing the main pay scale any more. Not all teachers can or will get promotion.
You don't get heads of subjects in many primary schools (or lower schools as we have in my area) - some of which do have ski trips, ok not as common as in secondary schools. Most subject area leaders get called a co-ordinator with little or no additional money.
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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We got the school ski trip letter this week, £744 for 6 days in Serre Chevalier.
I just need to find out from the school what plans they have for the kids who can ski pretty well.
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Last ski trip run by my daughter's state secondary school (that teaches French, German and Spanish) was to......Colorado. When I questioned why, I was told that the snow in Europe is too unreliable. I'm sure this more than justified the £1,800 price tag to stay in a 5* hotel with outdoor jacuzzis, and I'm sure the teachers who were running the trip had no influence on that decision. I should probably mention that the price didn't include food/drink in transit, or lunches in resort, or the planned apres ski activities - the school recommended another £300 to cover this, plus spending money. That was two years ago, I don't believe they've run a ski trip since as the take-up was so poor. 
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FAQ
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