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new board wanted

 Poster: A snowHead
Poster: A snowHead
looking around for a new board last year, and since i don't go in the park but like blasting about on the piste and off piste, i thought i'd check out the burton custom - x.

got a demo on a 162w in st anton, top of the Galzig lift, strapped in and set off - i just went went straight on. i was somewhat shocked at how hard it was to turn TBH. i decided it wasn't for me and headed back to the shop. on the way back i began to get a feel for what the board was really about, and found that on steeper slope, pointed straighter down, going faster it was bloody amazing, with fabulous edge grip and stability at speed. fantastic carver too. the only board i've ever ridden that i can leave clean lines with.

i'm still looking for board and again i'm wondering about a custom -x. maybe i was too hasty? maybe i should buy one and learn to ride it better? maybe that's what i need?

i currently ride a burton cascade 168, bought new in colorado 1n 2000/2001 i think. i'm not sure they ever sold them in europe. i thought it was a stiffish board but not anywhere like the x! i've enjoyed it but i can never get it to hold an edge on hardpack nicely. i find it way too skiddy, or maybe i'm way too skiddy?


just fishing for thoughts really. really fancy trying a new board, but hiring/demoing is such a drag. the x i demoed came with those stupid adaptor plates that hire places fit. the crappy hire bindings were not exactly stiff either and i suspect that my flow ntx-ats would be a lot more responsive.

i'm er, 59, about 92Kg and been snowboarding for 20+years.
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 Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
In Canada rental/ demo snowboards are the same as retail stuff, there's no adaptor business. I've not ridden either board.

Google says the Cascade is really old and it sounds soft.

The Custom-X is billed as "the most aggressive board in Burton’s lineup".


Perhaps you're expecting quite a lot from yourself there. A little work, possibly instruction, may be needed to switch from park skidder to piste blaster.
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 Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
The Cascade was an old freeride board, the successor to the original Supermodel I think. Soft-ish nose, stiff-ish tail.

Quote:

In Canada rental/ demo snowboards are the same as retail stuff, there's no adaptor business.


He just means the quick-disc things that loads of rental shops use so that they can change the stances really quickly.

I'm less geeky about reading all the catalogues than I used to be, so my knowledge of current line-ups is a bit limited. From the Amplid (my board partner!) line-up, have a look at the Creamer: http://www.amplid.com/snowboards/creamer

Or, for something really stiff, the UNW8 http://www.amplid.com/snowboards/unw8 or the B10-30 http://www.amplid.com/snowboards/b-10/30
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"The Custom-X is billed as "the most aggressive board in Burton’s lineup".


Perhaps you're expecting quite a lot from yourself there. A little work, possibly instruction, may be needed to switch from park skidder to piste blaster."

i take your point, and alluded to the possibility in my post, but i would emphasise it's the low speed stuff where i had the trouble. i felt i had to unweight the board a hell of a lot to get it to turn. cracking on was fine.

IIRC the cascade was a development of the craig kelly sig board, but i may be wrong about that. i demoed it in breckenridge with proper bindings, and although i found it harder work than the custom i had at the time. i felt i'd grow into it, which i did. i'm thinking i might be the same with the custom x. i know i'll never be able to use it to anything like it's full potential, but i might enjoy it. maybe i should just get another custom.
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You demoed a wide? Do you really need a wide as it will be stiffer than the regular and quite a bit harder to turn? If I only have one board it wouldn't be a Custom X or even a Custom, whilst great at high speed and carving I find that straight up camber boards aren't as much 'fun' and are much harder work in powder than CRC and RCR profile boards. Take a look at the Rossi One Magtek though there are plenty of decent boards in all the mountain freeride class.
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Quote:

IIRC the cascade was a development of the craig kelly sig board,


That's right, the Supermodel was the Kelly-inspired board line (as the Balance of the time was Terje's) and the Cascade was it's replacement. I think there was another board called the Omen which was in the same sequence either before or after.
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Then you can post your own questions or snow reports...
A quick trip to Burtonvault.com suggest the Cascade only existed for a year or two in between the Supermodel and the Omen...
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 After all it is free Go on u know u want to!
After all it is free Go on u know u want to!
I don't think I saw Craig actually ride one, but I have an original Supermodel... It was the standard off piste powder board from about 1996 through... 2000 or so. It was wide and soft... the tail design was especially good for powder as it was designed for powder in a way that many powder boards of the day weren't (!). They only really died with the arrival of the Fish (Terje) and taper etc.

I'd not ever ride it on piste - it was much too wide, and that soft tail wouldn't take a lot of load.

Back to this... if you have a board which needs work at low speed... that suggests it may simply be designed for higher speeds. That's what would happen if you bought a board which was "too big" for example. Alternatively you may just not have the aggressive stuff dialled just yet, it takes practice....
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i demoed a wide as that's what the shop had, and it fitted in with burton's chart for shoe size - uk11.

i do occasionally drag by feet on the cascade which is 250 something wide from memory, about the same as a custom x standard. i felt it might be worse on a board that holds an edge a whole lot better.

i don't know much about them TBH, but the cascade was certainly not sold to me as a powder board, but it would explain it's relatively poor edge control. another miss selling scandal? i'll brace myself for the automated phone calls Smile
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maybe try a burton custom flying v - i went to this board after using a custom x for a few years. i liked the custom x, but the custom flying v is "looser" and has a bit more flex - definitely easier to turn. it's billed as a good all mountain board and in my experience it is - a bit better/easier to use in powder than the custom x, although i reckon the custom x grips quite a lot better on hard piste.

If you're buying, maybe wait until end of season as you'll pick up a deal on a "last year's model"?
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@RedLemon, the Cascade was definitely very much a "freeride" board, if not quite a powder-specific board like a Fish or Jones Hovercraft.
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 And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
So your feet are quite big. The Rossi One comes in a mid-wide I think. I'd also take a look at the Salomon Man's board as the the regular version is on the wider side. I'm not man enough for this years graphic myself but it does get great reviews.
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some things to think about there. i'll look into the options later.

my fall back position was a burton custom camber. i've always had camber (and burton) boards and being a creature of habit....

i can get one for £389 v £449 for a 2014 X. if i do buy, it will be before i go away again at the end of march. going to zermatt, so not much hope of an end of season bargain there i think.
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 You know it makes sense.
You know it makes sense.
I'd always ridden camber. Now I've got one of each. A Custom (camber), a softer Flow Era (CRC) and a stiffer Yes PYL (RCR). Both of the newer boards are more fun *on piste* and better in powder. They also excel in the specific area's they are designed for. Ok the Custom can hold an edge, flat base and it carves slightly better than the Flow on hard pistes but it's not a huge difference. As a result I can only ever see me riding the Custom when snow cover is poor.


Last edited by You know it makes sense. on Mon 16-02-15 15:31; edited 1 time in total
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 Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
i reckon a purchase in march would still be late enough to get you a deal: good luck.

been to zermatt before? if so, presume you liked or wouldn't be going back, but what are your views?
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 Poster: A snowHead
Poster: A snowHead
I clicked quote instead of edit, doh!
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Quote:

been to zermatt before? if so, presume you liked or wouldn't be going back, but what are your views?


yes. once in summer on a motorbike, and one winter trip.

lovely place, with the best scenery in the alps and IME probably the rockies too. definitely something about the place. val thorens say, has great skiing, probably better than zermatt, but it's not in the same league for *experience*. we love skiing/boarding back to town, catching the old gornagrat funicular, chucking kit in a corner and enjoying the stunning views or even dozing on the way back up. it's in my top 3 favourite resorts. for reference the others would be st. anton and whistler.

downsides: it's a tad dear. last time i went, a big mac in the high st was ten quid (not really a problem as i don't eat them) and the restaurant at the observatory sold chicken nuggets @ a quid each (wouldn't eat them either). we're going with a chalet company so we won't be spending that much on food etc. er yeah right, there's some great lunch stops. one over in cervinia is very good and very reasonable. chalet etoile, i think. last time we went i reckoned you could probably do 10 days in canada for similar money.

but as you say, we're going again, so it must be worth it. most resorts i find are much of a muchness, but zermatt, and st anton, and whistler and a couple of others stand out for me.

oh, and i like not thinking about where i'm going, so i like the ski guiding that the chalet company puts on, and it's not available in france or italy any more, so i'm less inclined to go there now.
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 Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
cheers. interesting to read your views
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I had a Custom X for years and always thought it was an OK board. Swapped to a Lib-Tech TRS and it is just a million miles away from the Custom X. Much better all around board and was a winner in the recent powder I found in Morzine. I am a similar size to you and 40+ yrs and went for the 161.5. It is a dream to ride!
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interesting, but i'm wondering how do you keep the edge good with them bumps?
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interesting, but i'm wondering how do you keep the edge good with them bumps?
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Then you can post your own questions or snow reports...
@RedLemon, there is a special edge tool for use with wavy edges, or it can be done with a standard tool with a bit of care.
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 After all it is free Go on u know u want to!
After all it is free Go on u know u want to!
thanks for the info.
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can't do the graphics on the Man's Board. quite taken with this:

http://www.flow.com/Products/mens-snowboard/blackout-abt/FD14M3BLACSTD bit different, understated graphics, all the reviews i can find are positive.
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I used a TRS for a while a couple of seasons ago in powder and it was just a lifeless plank for me. I think I tried various sizes (can't quite remember), but none of them were good in bottomless powder for me. Clearly there's nothing wrong with the board, it just didn't fit me. Like jeans, you have to try them on.


Zermatt : yeah, a great place, but different from other places and not for everyone. It's an old resort like Cham, so not like "planned" resorts. Some wild places, probably not great if you like everything on a plate.
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http://www.angrysnowboarder.com/2015-flow-blackout-snowboard-used-reviewed/

Angry likes it. I think Flow are making some great value boards at the moment. If you wanted a 59 last years are available for a steal.
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 And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
The TRS is a centre stance true twin so its not going to be great in powder. Much better on a directional board with set back stance for that.
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 So if you're just off somewhere snowy come back and post a snow report of your own and we'll all love you very much
So if you're just off somewhere snowy come back and post a snow report of your own and we'll all love you very much
Correct. Not being dim, I rode it set back. That's what the inserts are for.

But you're right overall: people who want a board which makes switch tricks easy aren't generally interested in powder. Which is why the marketing is poor. They sell them as ok in powder, but they mean the sort of fluff you get on piste at a resort I think.
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 You know it makes sense.
You know it makes sense.
and the fact that the flow blackout is also a true twin* is the main thing that's holding me back at the moment.

oddly, everything i've read says its great in powder though.


*sort of. apparently the nose is a little bit bigger, for powder.
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 Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
I don't think I've ever seen a snowboard review that was worth the paper it was written on.

Except Jean Nerva's reviews in French mags actually, he was pretty good and told you when he didn't like a board.
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that's unfortunate, as i don't have the opportunity to actually try many out.
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stevomcd wrote:
I don't think I've ever seen a snowboard review that was worth the paper it was written on....

Magazines are dependent upon advertising revenue, so they're never going to describe a board as being "the same old stuff with a new paint job", for example. In my direct experience, honest feedback will not reach print. There is no separation between content and advertising in the real world.

On-line reviews don't necessarily have the same pressures, although some of us ride on free kit so you have to bear that in mind. I've some snowboard "reviews" online, but somewhere too I've a piece which points out that what works for me probably won't work for you. Mine is a niche market, but I have met people who've bought me beer because of those reviews, so they're maybe not completely useless.

--
Actually I think the mainstream magazine "review" culture actually damages the sport.

The advertorial makes people feel safe spending £400 on something which is probably not right for them, and probably too small. It's not safe, it's a huge risk for anything other than absolute day-1 beginner boards, which you should be renting anyway.
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i have a Burton Johan and its exactly the same - at low speeds im waiting for it to smack me in the head - at higher speeds its a completely different beast, its smooth and goes exactly where i want. It's also hard work as as soon as you get lazy it bites so it certainly keeps me on my toes.
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@philwig, agreed, I think the culture of reviewing every single board as being awesome just devalues the whole review concept, as there is essentially no way to differentiate between boards other than the manufacturer's spiel (or trying them, of course). On-line reviews from big players tend to suffer from the same problem. On-line "user-reviews" are usually written by people who are pretty clueless. There are some good on-line reviewers but, as you say, they can only cover a limited number of boards and may well have their own niche perspective.
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Any thoughts on Burton's Channel system? Improved feel/response? Never tried it, hear such mixed things...
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It makes no difference, in my opinion. It works better than I would have thought, but I would rather have 4x4 any day of the week. I ride a lot of Burton powder boards, and deal with the weird channel thing, but it's a negative in my view.

Even for tourists, who may feel the need to dick around with their bindings, it's easier with normal bindings, in my view.
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 Then you can post your own questions or snow reports...
Then you can post your own questions or snow reports...
@stevomcd, @RedLemon, I'm pretty sure that Angry Snowboarder is always honest, you might not agree with him about what makes a good board but he plays it straight. As I understand it certain manufacturers refuse to send him stuff because of past poor reviews.

Back to the question, I'd want some setback and some rocker if I'm lucky enough to enjoy deep snow again, but with 3 European trips a year I haven't seen more than 6" for a couple of seasons. If you don't ride switch then maybe the twinness of the Blackout will be wasted? I'm sure it would do most of what you want really well though. Check out the Yes Pick Your Line - setback, camrock, tapered so good in powder (theoretically) & stiff and cambered between the bindings so carves and holds an edge well (tested).
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After all it is free Go on u know u want to!
A flow twin with a 210mm nose lenght in deep powder or trees ?
Its half term isn't it.
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@Snow Hound, I don't doubt it, but the amount of boards he covers is pretty limited. I've just had a quick look at one review for a board that I know.

It's an all-mountain, twin-shape, mid-flex, mixed-camber board. He criticises it for being good at everything but not amazing at anything. Hmmm... insightful....

He does point out the "great sidecut" the board has. It's a completely standard 8m radial sidecut.

At the end of the day, most boards do what they say on the tin (marketing hype aside) and there are few truly bad boards on the market (at least from mainstream manufacturers). Decide what you want your board to do, then pick one that's aimed at that kind of riding and suits your dimensions, wallet and graphical taste...
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these guys seem to like it

http://www.snowboardingforum.com/boards/115929-flow-blackout-review.html
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