Poster: A snowHead
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Hi There!
im looking to buy some new bindings. The Rossignol FKS 18.
The DIN range is 8-18 and when i use the Dinsetting.com and put myself at lvl 3 skier i get an 8 and if i put myself at 3+ i get a 9,5.
IM doing freestyle skiing and im not pro, but im getting pretty good, and doing medium size jumps, a lot of rails and so.
My question is what DIN should i use, and how close to the lower end of the binding ( should it be?
Thanks.
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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@Jimbo191, Why not drop one of the Freestyle coaches an email. They will be able to give you the current advice.
The web site for the UK national governing body is http://www.freestylesnowsports.co.uk/british/ and they should be able to hook you up with a coach.
If you drop me a pm I may have some direct contacts.
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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Im all new here, and dont know how to?!?!
Can u drop me one?
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
You need to Login to know who's really who.
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@Jimbo191, 'Send \ Receive Messages" top right
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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I think to use the binding correctly you'll need to be at 9.5, since bindings on their very lowest setting aren't reliable*. This typically means you need to drop to the model below with the lower DIN range [e.g. 5 - 14], to be able to sit more comfortably within the DIN range. I opted to risk it with my Guardians and went up a little [still a correct setting, but I'll need to live gnarly to make it correct] because... well for bad reasons really, including a colour match and they were CRAZY cheap in a sale. Well done for asking.
*Source: I was in a similar boat (I got 7 at 3, 8.5 at 3+ (on a binding 7 - 16 DIN)), and a savvy-sounding Snow and Rock team member explained that using the first DIN setting is a big 'no-no', which 7 [in my 7 - 16 binding] would have been. So I opted for 8.5 and in hindsight, I think I'm glad I did. I'd been using 7 in the past I think, and I had a couple of pre-releases at speed that I could've recovered from, but for the low DIN. I also am pretty sure for serious gnar and jumps, you need to look at 3+ to get the right value. I also plan on getting fatter.
*Disclaimer: this is your future ski career in the balance so make sure you get it right - and emailing some professionals (and waiting for some on here) is essential. I'm just sharing my thoughts as a noob how was in a similar boat. You blow a knee up and it's not my fault.
(And the little grey "+" sign lets you open a menu on the User's name, and there's a little "PM" button). Don't accidentally click the ignore line...
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You'll need to Register first of course.
You'll need to Register first of course.
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Jimbo191, What DIN setting are you using now ? If that seems about right then get a binding that will adjust to that value. The DIN charts are not really aimed at freestyle (or racing).
The FKS 18 will release straight up at the toe, are you sure you want that ?
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I'd like to add that it's wholly wrong, and should be made illegal...
... For manufacturers to ONLY make the sexiest damn bindings in the top DIN range!!
It constantly leads to people who shouldn't be buying such burly bindings: buying such burly bindings
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JaMMi wrote: |
I think to use the binding correctly you'll need to be at 9.5, since bindings on their very lowest setting aren't reliable*. This typically means you need to drop to the model below with the lower DIN range [e.g. 5 - 14], to be able to sit more comfortably within the DIN range. I opted to risk it with my Guardians and went up a little [still a correct setting, but I'll need to live gnarly to make it correct] because... well for bad reasons really, including a colour match and they were CRAZY cheap in a sale. Well done for asking.
*Source: I was in a similar boat (I got 7 at 3, 8.5 at 3+ (on a binding 7 - 16 DIN)), and a savvy-sounding Snow and Rock team member explained that using the first DIN setting is a big 'no-no', which 7 [in my 7 - 16 binding] would have been. So I opted for 8.5 and in hindsight, I think I'm glad I did. I'd been using 7 in the past I think, and I had a couple of pre-releases at speed that I could've recovered from, but for the low DIN. I also am pretty sure for serious gnar and jumps, you need to look at 3+ to get the right value. I also plan on getting fatter.
*Disclaimer: this is your future ski career in the balance so make sure you get it right - and emailing some professionals (and waiting for some on here) is essential. I'm just sharing my thoughts as a noob how was in a similar boat. You blow a knee up and it's not my fault.
(And the little grey "+" sign lets you open a menu on the User's name, and there's a little "PM" button). Don't accidentally click the ignore line... |
Are you trying to say that manufacturer X or Y are actually making bindings with unreliable DIN settings?
If you need a setting of 9 or 10 then a binding that goes upto 10 will do the job. The main differences are normally that the higher DIN bindings ( especially when you go to 14 and up ) can have higher grade materials in the construction of the binding as an example metal in place of plastic.
The other advantage of not being at either the top or the bottom of the settings is you may change the settings for different skiing ie general piste skiing you may be a 9 but you may want to do jumps on or off-piste and so increase the bindings DIN setting for that activity, to reduce the risk of pre-release.
Any given binding will release sooner on a setting of 7 than on a setting of 8.5 that does not mean it pre-released it means it did the job correctly and released at a lower load than it would do so on a setting of 8.5
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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JaMMi wrote: |
I think to use the binding correctly you'll need to be at 9.5, since bindings on their very lowest setting aren't reliable*. This typically means you need to drop to the model below with the lower DIN range [e.g. 5 - 14], to be able to sit more comfortably within the DIN range. I opted to risk it with my Guardians and went up a little [still a correct setting, but I'll need to live gnarly to make it correct] because... well for bad reasons really, including a colour match and they were CRAZY cheap in a sale. Well done for asking.
*Source: I was in a similar boat (I got 7 at 3, 8.5 at 3+ (on a binding 7 - 16 DIN)), and a savvy-sounding Snow and Rock team member explained that using the first DIN setting is a big 'no-no', which 7 [in my 7 - 16 binding] would have been. So I opted for 8.5 and in hindsight, I think I'm glad I did. I'd been using 7 in the past I think, and I had a couple of pre-releases at speed that I could've recovered from, but for the low DIN. I also am pretty sure for serious gnar and jumps, you need to look at 3+ to get the right value. I also plan on getting fatter.
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Disagree (though some say the same about using the top setting, and slacking settings off over summer etc).
DIN 7 is DIN 7, whether that's on a 7-14 binding or 5-10. Anything else is a malfunctioning binding.
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Counter-source to what I was told (I was misinformed I'm pretty sure... Apologies folks);
http://www.epicski.com/u/6979/msolson
(Marshal Olsen of DPS skis)
//////// Manual Quote //////////////////
"Bindings work best at the *bottom* part of the range: adjusting the release value is only adding PRELOAD to the spring. it is not making the spring stiffer. the more preload you add, the more force the spring requires to move initially. the release is most important as WORK DONE to release, or force relative to time.
So a soft spring cranked up really high (say 10 on a 4-12din) will be harder to move initially, and then you blow thru the second half of the stroke. a firm spring with no preload (say 10 on a 10-18din) will be easier to move initially, and then gets harder to release as you get deeper into the bindings elasticity.
they release (meaning the skier must accomplish the same amount of force over a given distance/time) aka 10 DIN. HOWEVER: the soft/high preload arrangement is more likely to injure by being difficult to get into the bindings elasticity, and is also more likely to prerelease since it blows thru the travel quicker (which generally means the skier will crank the dins, which is the last thing they should be doing). this is compared to a firm spring/low preload arrangement, where the skier can access the elasticity very easily, and has more ability to recover without releasing. generally you can get away with a lower din and stay in here, but also be less likely to injure yourself since there is more initial ROM in the binding.
so yeah. better to ski 10din on a 10-18 than 10 on a 4-12. simple fact.
////////////////// End Manual Quote ///////////////////////////////////
So I'm feeling pretty smug about my 7 - 16 DIN binding purchase now
(Apologies for the mis-info. It's safety related so I'm tempted to edit my original post but I'll leave it as is since I guess no major harm done).
PS: when I say "pre-release" I mean: "Accurate-release-with-respect-to-DIN-yet-wholly-unsatisfactory-release-with-respect-to-the-fact-IONLYHAVEONESKINOW-Aaarrrgh-crash" release. Hope that clarifies.
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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The FKS 5-14 would seem beefy enough and is lighter.
The FKS is a good binding when set up correctly but it is definitely not the easiest binding in the world to install and adjust. So if you are not sure about what you are doing, get some help, either from a friend who does know what they are doing or by ordering the bindings through a shop (who will probably install them for free in that case).
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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A world cup race fitter I know told me that 0.5 from the bottom setting is perfectly accurate. He just doesn't like to have them totally turned down, but to be honest even that should release accurately.
Using the middle range of the DIN settings seems to be like the swallowing 8 spiders during a lifetimes sleep and only using 10% of your brain... no factual basis but once lots of people start repeating it it becomes folklore.
The one advantage of being about a third up on your setting range is that it gives you options to adjust both up and down in case you get more aggressive with your skiing or develop an injury.
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@JaMMi, good info there, cheers
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You know it makes sense.
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@Jimbo191, I've just been chatting to a freestye coach friend and the view is that a higher setting is appropriate to cope with slightly iffy landings etc. They also commented that a center mount is the way to go.
They are happy to chat with you by email if you want to discuss it. PM me for the contact details.
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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@AndAnotherThing.., I had to put my bindings up as landing in soft snow sometimes popped them leading to some good double ejects
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Poster: A snowHead
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@Scarpa, We need video
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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@AndAnotherThing.., there was an eye witness for the last one.
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
You need to Login to know who's really who.
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I'm going to stick my neck out a bit and say most pre releases are down to badly set forward pressure and nothing to do with where you are sitting in the DIN rage of a binding AND most pro freskiers who have gotten away without injury on high dins don't know poo-poo about bindings.
Unless you are pushing very hard and importantly consistently hard DON'T set your bindings above skier type 3 - unless you like blowing your knees or braking your tib/fib.
I see so may people skiing DIN 12 or even 16 when the chart says 8. Or locking their Tech toes to stop em comming out - None of these are skiing into the north face of the Midi wher there may be some sense to the "No release so I won't fall" idea!
At the Physio I am seeing for my ACL rehab (Which I broke stepping off my bike and falling over a pebble) 19 out of 20 ACL's are down to over cranked DIN's..... and none of these people had skied out the door of the Midi on their life , let anlone turned left when doing so!
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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@Idris, also having technical ability counts. A good skier can land without much of a jolt, others like me often come down harder But I still get nervous setting mine to 10.
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You'll need to Register first of course.
You'll need to Register first of course.
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Quote: |
At the Physio I am seeing for my ACL rehab (Which I broke stepping off my bike and falling over a pebble) 19 out of 20 ACL's are down to over cranked DIN's.
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That's worth repeating every 100 posts on almost every thread on SHs.
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Yup, better to be slightly low and increase them if you have problems. Also if you swap boots with different sole profiles check the AFD clearance.
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