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Painfull Ski Boots

 Poster: A snowHead
Poster: A snowHead
Hi snowheads,

I'm wondering if anyone here has the same problem with ski boots as me and/or is able to offer any advice on what the problem is. Here's my story:

I decided to invest in my own boots two years ago as I've always had problems with hire boots being too roomy for my feet and shins. I purchased a pair of Solomon instinct and custom footbeds from Ellis Brigham in Milton Keynes. Shortly after I trialled them at chill factore when I was up in Manchester. The pain was excruciating so I abandoned after 15 mins and went to their shop in Manchester where the guy re moulded them but this did not solve my problem. I have tried about 6/7 times since to use them on the indoor slopes but the pain is too bad. The pain is in the soles of my feet and appears within 5 mins.

I have worn them at home for many hours but this has not made a difference. I've seen it mentioned that high heels are a problem however I live in trainers. I do not do the boots up tight, this happens on the loosest settings of all the buckles, I can ski in them like this as they are close fitting.

I went to mk snozone today to trial them before I go on holiday this weekend, my first holiday in years. Same story, one of the lifties noticed I was almost in tears. I went to get some rentals for the rest of my session and the pain immediately disappeared. Generally I have quite a high pain threshold, if fracturing an arm is a 3/10 then these boots are an 8/10!

I want to take them back to the shop again tomorrow but I can't find the receipt.

Thanks

Steph
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 Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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@stephap, Your diagnosis - is 'bootfiter-sclerosis', the medicine that is usualy prescribed is composed of two parts:
a) going arround a church on knees and shouting 'mea culpa'
b) seeing a booftitersclerosis speacialist and getting a 'prescription boots' - depending on your location, people will soon provide you with options.

On a serious note - feel for you, as although I did not have pain, mine were too big. It took only one visit to a specialist (in Tignes in my case) - will be there in a month time and most likely go and see if anything needs adjusting.
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@stephap,

Are you wearing thick 'ski' socks with the boots?
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It's nothing simply like the "wrong socks" and you're not doing anything wrong. The boots don't fit. They shouldn't hurt like that.

Could be many things (unlikely to be just down to the footbed mould), but basically the fitter didn't know what he was doing and you've been sold the wrong boots. I don't know what fit guarantee EB offer, but the main problem you face is that they were fitted 2 years ago. Regardless of minimal use, I doubt you'll get much out of them. I'd still kick up a fuss and see what you can get, but at the end of the day I'd probably cut my losses and head to a decent boot fitter to a) see if those boots can be made to fit or b) buy a pair that do. Bicester shouldn't be too far from you? Go and see solutions4feet...
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Dashed wrote:
It's nothing simply like the "wrong socks" and you're not doing anything wrong. ..


Easy tiger!! rolling eyes

Who said that the OP was doing anything 'wrong' and how about starting off with a few Qs rather than diving in and righting the boots and Ellis Brigham off?

EB boot fitters are not complete idiots.
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The best thing is to pop in and see a good boot fitter. Where are you based?
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Never have these problems renting.
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Hallo all, just to stick my two penneth in - I had an issue with my Salomon boots (bought from a chain store) and after 3 holidays of trying to deal with it each holiday I decided this year to go to a highly rated independent boot fitting shop. Have owned 3 pairs of boots before and not had any issues, maybe its an age thing! Anyway Ive spend about 5 very painful visits to a snow dome to wear them in, along with hours of wearing in my house & 2 visits to get various parts of one boot shaved/drilled/shaped and am off skiing in them next week.

Im not 100% convinced one of my poor feet will enjoy my holiday but hopefully they will wear in a little more over the coming days.

Moral of the story - even a great boot fitter will not be able to give you the best feeling boots straight off (and not even now for me), so maybe cut the EB's of the world a bit of slack also ;p)
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My missus spent a couple of hours at EB MK recently. Came away quite exasperated and without any new boots. In fact we are going to skiing this week with her still using her old ones. That is not per se to say the bootfitter or EB don't know what they are doing. But after discussion, measurement, etc the boot she was given as the "right fit" hurt her like hell.

They did say that you could come back as many times as you needed for FREE modifications in order to get the boot absolutely right. And I seem to recall there was some sort of fitting card that would be kept and modifications tracked so that whenever you went back in they could see what had been done.
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@stephap, which part of the sole of your foot hurts?
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You describe a similar problem that I had when I first bought boots from a 'boot fitter'. They were Salomon too, and a size smaller than any rental/previous boots I had used without pain. I was told the boots would stretch and become comfier, but after three years of pain/numbness and two lots of stretching this hadn't happened and I gave up and bought bigger boots in my original size. Hey presto no further problems.

As far as I can tell you have been sold the wrong size boots. Don't EB offer some sort of money back guarantee for that?
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@stephap, I'd invoke the EB fit guarantee if I were you, and then try a specialised boot fitter.

http://www.ellis-brigham.com/advice-inspiration/guides-and-advice/buying-guides/ski-boot-buying-guide

SUREFIT GUARANTEE

As we recognise that every foot is unique, we also recognise the need for unique ski boots. To achieve this, we provide free labour for customisation; whether it’s the day you buy the boots, after you have skied them the first time, or 3 years down the line. This free service includes stretching, grinding and modifications such as softening or stiffening.

We want you to be happy with your ski boots so we will always try to remedy any problems you may encounter. Very often, this will be resolved by a simple stretch or grind to the ski boot to slightly alter the shape; in all cases we will expect good quality ski socks and supportive footbeds to be used. If we are unable to provide a satisfactory fit, then, providing the ski boots have been worn for less than 2 weeks (wear and tear will be taken into account), correct socks and footbeds have been used, and there is a proof of purchase (to show the boots were bought from Ellis Brigham in the preceding 18 months), we will issue a credit note for 70% of the value paid. This guarantee is offered in addition to your statutory rights, and it is dependent on our advice being accepted during fitting. For further information, terms and conditions contact customer.services@ellis-brigham.com
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Mollerski wrote:
@stephap,

Are you wearing thick 'ski' socks with the boots?


No I am wearing 'technical' ski socks.
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You know it makes sense.
Dashed wrote:
It's nothing simply like the "wrong socks" and you're not doing anything wrong. The boots don't fit. They shouldn't hurt like that.

Could be many things (unlikely to be just down to the footbed mould), but basically the fitter didn't know what he was doing and you've been sold the wrong boots. I don't know what fit guarantee EB offer, but the main problem you face is that they were fitted 2 years ago. Regardless of minimal use, I doubt you'll get much out of them. I'd still kick up a fuss and see what you can get, but at the end of the day I'd probably cut my losses and head to a decent boot fitter to a) see if those boots can be made to fit or b) buy a pair that do. Bicester shouldn't be too far from you? Go and see solutions4feet...


Thank you for the suggestion. I may have to look into more custom fitted boots when I have some cash again!
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Arno wrote:
@stephap, which part of the sole of your foot hurts?


All of it!
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 Poster: A snowHead
Poster: A snowHead
That is quite a commitment from the Surefit team. Do note though, 3 years for boot adjustment, 18 months for partial cost displacement. Note their full conditions though.
I used EB for my boots and had A1 service from their staff. It took two visits and lengthy stand episodes to ensure I achieved the right fitting boot.
It makes you wonder how hired boots always seemed to work first go Puzzled
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Are your boots OK when you're wearing them in the house? Reading through what you've written I've got the impression that you've only tried them in cold conditions a few times and each time only lasted say half an hour.

If they're comfortable when warm then there might not be anything wrong with the fit at all. All boots contract when you chill them down and often this is seriously painful for the first hour or two. After that time the inners compress, reducing the pressure on your feet and hence the pain goes away.

I bought new boots at the start of last season - painful for the first day on the slopes then fine for three week's use. Put them on a couple of weeks ago after they'd been sitting in the wardrobe all summer and they were painful as hell for my first session back in the fridge. On subsequent visits they've been perfectly fine.
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stephap wrote:
Mollerski wrote:
@stephap,

Are you wearing thick 'ski' socks with the boots?


No I am wearing 'technical' ski socks.


Try pop socks. seriously. You do not need or want thermal properties in the sock these days.
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Quote:
You do not need or want thermal properties in the sock these days.

Why not?
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@stephap, even the heel or is it more towards the ball of your foot?
I have had problems with the balls of my feet over the years and the issues have been:

1. boots being a teeny bit too narrow. fixed with a very small punch by my little toe
2. lack of flexibility in the calves, meaning that when I push my knees forward to flex the tongue of the boot, the balls of my feet are pushed down into the footbed. solutions to this include, stretching calves a lot (trainers don't help with this because of the cushioning under the heel), heel lifts in the boot or getting boots which allow less ankle flex
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@Mollerski, I certainly did when it was -20 at the base of the station and blowing a gale!
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stephap wrote:
I decided to invest in my own boots two years ago as I've always had problems with hire boots being too roomy for my feet and shins. I purchased a pair of Solomon instinct and custom footbeds

Try them with regular footbeds (use the footbeds from a pair of trainers if you don't have the originals).
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kitenski wrote:
@Mollerski, I certainly did when it was -20 at the base of the station and blowing a gale!


Actually, maybe you didn't. Modern liners and some trapped should be more effective than the foot being rammed in there with thick old skool ski socks.

I've skied in -26 in thin socks, with no coldy feet. My face was another story. Confused
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Have you taken the packing out?

Are they on the right feet.

Look for the obvious first.
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Valkyrie wrote:
All boots contract when you chill them down and often this is seriously painful for the first hour or two. After that time the inners compress, reducing the pressure on your feet and hence the pain goes away.


Don't they just!! Found that out the hard way when I accidentally left mine on the balcony overnight. It was hard enough to get my feet into them in the morning, but skiing was even worse for the first hour or so.
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[quote="SnoodyMcFlude"]
Valkyrie wrote:

Don't they just!! Found that out the hard way when I accidentally left mine on the balcony overnight.


Ferk dat! Shocked
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
I hadthe same problem with my new salomons, I found by not having the top clips as tight, and by wearing thin socks it alleviated the problem a bit, but as mentioned the first hour or two were quite painful. I'm hoping this coming season they feel better or I will have to visit a boot specialist.
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@Mollerski Yep. Was searching around the room in the morning wondering where they were, wasn't a great feeling when I realised where I'd left them. Thankfully the balcony was sheltered and it hand't snowed anyway, so thankfully they were at least dry and free from snow. Valuable lesson learnt though.
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@stephap, Given Colin at www.solutions4feet.co.uk a call, he will advise you especially re EB and going back there and if you need to see him he will arrange an appointment for you. He is in Bicester which isn't a big step from MK.
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SnoodyMcFlude wrote:
@Mollerski Yep. Was searching around the room in the morning wondering where they were, wasn't a great feeling when I realised where I'd left them. Thankfully the balcony was sheltered and it hand't snowed anyway, so thankfully they were at least dry and free from snow. Valuable lesson learnt though.


Yep, had that once with my old boots, took two of us over 10 minutes to get my boots on!

@Filthyphil30k, Toofy Grin
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 Poster: A snowHead
Poster: A snowHead
Hi @stephap, sorry to hear you're having problems with your boots. Of course we'll take a look at them, don't worry about the receipt for now.
The Instinct has a few specific characteristics in the way it fits, including a lot of forward lean. Let's take a look at how it's working with your feet and see what's causing the problem. We've got experienced fitters at MK (4 with over 4 seasons each), so don't worry we'll get to the bottom of it, and it's not going to cost you anything.
I'll let them know you're coming. Feel free to PM me.
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wow! @stephap, cant say fairer than that.

nice one snowHead snowHead snowHead 's
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Good to hear that EB are behaving just like a proper ski shop should.
I'm sure they will get to the bottom of it but FWIW I have had a similar experience to Arno and suspect his comments are the things that EB will be looking at
Quote:

1. boots being a teeny bit too narrow. fixed with a very small punch by my little toe

2. lack of flexibility in the calves, meaning that when I push my knees forward to flex the tongue of the boot, the balls of my feet are pushed down into the footbed. solutions to this include, stretching calves a lot (trainers don't help with this because of the cushioning under the heel), heel lifts in the boot or getting boots which allow less ankle flex

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I get planar fasciitis-like pain if I wear certain footwear.

If possible, try taking the footbeds from your ski boots and putting them in some other footwear. If the pain appears, the footbed either needs replacing with one more your arch shape or you need to allow your feet to adapt to the shape of the footbed. If you spend a lot of time in flat shoes you may find your arch tends to drop. The footbed correcting this can be intensely painful if you rush it. Just to add to the issue I also cannot bear pressure on certain areas of the top of my foot following too many years of wearing climbing boots.

See http://www.superfeet.com for details (no connection, just a happy customer)
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I had this problem starting since starting skiing around 18 years ago (I'm 43 now) and have a similar tale of visiting every bootfitter and insert, sock going and even purchased oil filled cork inserts (zipfit) for my Saloman boots - total spend maybe £1500 - all to no avail. I stuck it out for 10 years and tolerated the pain by undoing my boots completely at each lift so that by the time you are at the top, you had recovered ready for the next run but the pain was horrific on long runs and long drags needing me to stop mid piste and remove my boots and stick my feet in the snow to numb the pain. Not convenient!

Finally 3 years ago when I decided to get new boots, I found the answer - Profeet in Fulham diagnosed the problem as "agressive toe out", ideally I need to stand and ski with my feet pointing at 45 degrees whereas boots/skis force them to be 0 degrees straight and legs apart hence the agony. I get the same problem with Ice skates and more recently with cleeted race cycling. Toe out worsens with age as you get larger in the belly department, twists your feet out further!

The solution - they sold me a new pair of Head boots which are off the shelf but support some severe canter adjustments and quite an extreme insert both outside and changed the thing outside the liner at the bottom of the boot. the result - 90% pain gone and only need to undo boots for lunch! The big question - the cost - including a boot bag and I did one free return adjustments (unlimited apparantly) - a grand total of 400.00 GBP - wish I went years ago! Also, I get another 5% pain relief by following their advice and using powder skis with rounded rears as they need less turning force than a standard race ski but they are slower - not so bad as I get older. I can now ski better than ever and ski all day long (without sounding like a femimine hygiene advert). I'd recommend going to profeet as they have lots of odd machines to check your legs and feet but you need to book an appointment. Good luck
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interesting! i had the same Salomon boots at some expense and while they felt great in the shop were truly horrendous for real! Awful pain in the ball of my foot. Took them back for a stretch to no avail. instead i changed brand to HEAD and they are the best I've had.

i have a very high instep, if i walk with wet feet i have a heel print and a ball and toe print, no other part touches the floor so there will always be pressure because of the way I'm built.

The talk of toes pointing out is probably more muscular like tight ITBs/hip flexors pulling your alignment out. i know because i have had to work very hard on the foam roller and doing squats to sort the same issue for skiing and cycling. too many years as a competitive breast stroker left me in all sorts of bother!!!
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