"tree wells" - a quicksand like funnel that forms from the far edge of tree branches, tapering down to the base of the trunk. Because the snow around the edge easily collapses, often one falls in... upside down. Once in, all sound is absorbed by the soft snow, screaming for help is useless and any movement draws you deeper down. Also, you are nearly invisible from searchers on the surface - they can't see or hear you and need to rely on the transceivers to locate you - all taking precious time. There can be a pocket of air (as in this case) but it's only a short matter of time before that is exhausted and the person dies of suffocation.
Well thats all morbid for the evening, but a good reminder!
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Luckily it's not that often we get fresh snow that deep in Europe, but I've seen people struggle to get out of tree wells. VT should be safe though although I did find the only tree there
YAY! My chosen specialist topic! Some have Helmets, Some have the SCGB, I have Tree wells!
Remember; 90% of people in tree-wells cannot self extract, so keep together and be aware of where your party members are.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
@Richard_Sideways, Cheers, good read - seems an avalung may have a use in these situations?
So if you're just off somewhere snowy come back and post a snow report of your own and we'll all love you very much
So if you're just off somewhere snowy come back and post a snow report of your own and we'll all love you very much
@PaulC1984, Well perhaps, yes. Deep Snow Submersion is more of a North America problem due to the nature of the terrain and the snowfall - But its not unheard of in Europe, sadly...
I learned about them in Baker, and experienced being in one first hand in Canada, took me ages to self extract, and I'd gone in right-way up only hip deep.
You know it makes sense.
You know it makes sense.
Personally I've always seen tree wells ("NARSID " etc) as more of a risk than slides or helmet wearing. But it all depends where you ride. I'm often amused by park people telling me what they know of my risks ~ the risk from NARSID at Milton Keynes is probably not huge.
I suspect that Avalungs are not hugely relevant as the snow doesn't consolidate in the same way as with a slide. I've pulled a few bankers from wells and they all have them, but none of were using them. Maybe it's hard to yell with one in your gob, or perhaps they're hard to deploy.
From what I remember, the trees in Tignes are all away over in Val d'Isere, but I was only a tourist there so I'm sure they've plenty stashed away somewhere.
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
philwig wrote:
I suspect that Avalungs are not hugely relevant as the snow doesn't consolidate in the same way as with a slide. I've pulled a few bankers from wells and they all have them, but none of were using them. Maybe it's hard to yell with one in your gob, or perhaps they're hard to deploy.
They'd do a world of good if they were already in place, but how many people ski like that? I guess people assume they can put the mouthpiece in place when they really need it, but you get a lot less warning of tree wells than you do of avalanches...
Poster: A snowHead
Poster: A snowHead
Quote:
lot less warning of tree wells than you do of avalanches
Except tree wells are usually flagged.
Obviously.
Much less of a problem in Europe as the geography, snowfall, treelines and trees are very different.
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Not just trees either. I managed a quite beautiful tumble when I got too close to a hut which had a big well of soft uncompacted snow alongside it.
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Skiing trees in Europe which we're blessed with some of the finest tree skiing in Europe in and around Serre Chevalier you're far more liable to damage yourself on tree stumps and trees that have been felled that are lying horizontal just below the surface
So, following this tree-well logic through, would you ditch an ABS in say Japan in favour of a BD Avalung, for tree wells because presumably av risk is pretty low due to shallow gradient, or can you wear both at the same time?
Then you can post your own questions or snow reports...
Then you can post your own questions or snow reports...
Nothing to stop you wearing both, though you might get the odd funny look.
The guy in this incident was wearing an avalung and an airbag, and found the combination to be quite useful for him, even though he wasn't actually buried.
Some useful observations in there (especially as regards doing practise pulls of the trigger, if your equipment lets you do such a thing. The Mammut/Snowpulse gear does, for example.)
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
@Serriadh, Great video
For the sake of an extra £100 for an avalung after spending a fortune on the rest of the kit, for me personally Id rather have one just in case
Interesting comment about helmets on the video - that should tease a few comments out
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
@Serriadh, Excellent video. It's scary just how quickly everything happens.
So if you're just off somewhere snowy come back and post a snow report of your own and we'll all love you very much
So if you're just off somewhere snowy come back and post a snow report of your own and we'll all love you very much
great video, would have liked to see the headcam footage at full speed too
I'm still not convinced that it would be a good call to go for the avalung rather than hold your breath and focus on the airbag. Perhaps it is. I don't know. There must be a risk that the avalung distracts you from getting the bag(s) out. I was struck by the comment that using polestraps might have stopped him from pulling the bag release. Confess I do sometimes forget to drop my straps in an open bowl...
You know it makes sense.
You know it makes sense.
@jedster, The bit about the pole straps was a very good point IMHO - will make me think in future
My personally Id go for airbag then avalung if possible! (unless your in a tree hole!)
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Perhaps that choice (go for airbag or avalung) could be eliminated if we ski with this
Poster: A snowHead
Poster: A snowHead
I think you need to keep things in perspective. I snowboard a lot of powder, mostly in trees, mostly with big wells, but I don't really see an issue there which can be dealt with by buying more things. Riding safely is much more important. Or even learning how to rescue someone from a well.
It's not about "an extra £100", it's about risk management. Not the banking kind. Jeez, let's not have "avalung" threads too. Soon you'll have so much safety gear you'll be so safe because you'll not be able to get out the door. Except that's even more dangerous...
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
@ALQ, well i do have a black ruroc so im darf vader!
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
A friend of ours died in a tree well incident last Feb at Whitefish. It was tragic.
He died, as is often typical, when his ski buddy and family were waiting for him at the bottom.
Then you can post your own questions or snow reports...
Then you can post your own questions or snow reports...
A friend once went head first into a bank of powder and disappeared up to his legs! If we hadn't been there there is no way he could have extracted himself... Only the stormtrooper gear would have kept him alive under those circumstances, especially if you consider what a light saber can do to a pile of powder.
After all it is free
After all it is free
@gryphea, Lord, thats not nice. How terrible for his family. Must admit, thats why I like the idea of at least having the avalung available - I dont think id cope well in a tree hole (im a bit claustrophobic) and at least if I could breath to some degree it would be helpful!
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
Nevermind the avalung - how many of you ski with a whistle on the top of your zipper you can try to get in your mouth while your hands are trapped? It's 50p protection
Ski the Net with snowHeads
Ski the Net with snowHeads
@Dave of the Marmottes, Always have the whistle at the ready
FAQ
Poster: A snowHead
