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Best reasonably priced resort for skiing ungroomed runs without a guide?

 Poster: A snowHead
Poster: A snowHead
Hi everyone, I'm an intermediate but I just dont like skiing on groomed snow. I like ungroomed runs and have done them on a tiny resorts. However, they are hard to find in large scale resorts.

After hours of research I seem to have come upon:

    Some obscure resort in Georgia (Gudauri) as its one large featureless mountain offering wide smooth expanse.
    Monterosa due to its size and that its unpopular so I might be able to ski virgin snow next to the pistes.
    The Marmolada face in the Dolomites seems to be great wide expanse of smooth snow.
    Les Arcs would have fit the bill if it wasnt so popular and expensive.
    Zermatt fits the bill but is too expensive


What do you recommend?

P.S I dont mean off piste and I dont want to go to somewhere like Le Grave, I will certainly kill myself. I only want to ski nice long runs on uncompacted snow safely without a guide.


Last edited by Poster: A snowHead on Wed 26-11-14 1:08; edited 4 times in total
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 Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
I think you are confusing ungroomed runs with off-piste.
An ungroomed run in exactly that......an official ski run/piste which hasn't been groomed. These are quite common in some resorts, but you don't see many people taking guides to ski ungroomed runs as they still have the usual coloured poles to mark the route. Most resorts will have a selection of ungroomed runs although in my experience there tend to be more in Austrian resorts than French ones.

Do you mean which resorts are best for less challenging off piste skiing?
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Quote:

The Marmolada face in the Dolomites seems to be great wide expanse of smooth snow.


It is also a glacial area and as such dangerous high mountain terrain for the obvious reasons... Confused
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Ungroomed runs are not the same as offpiste.

Ungroomed runs (commonly know as ski routes) have markers and are avanlanche controlled or shut when the avalanche danger is high.
they are generally marked as a dotted line on a piste map

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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Ost Tirol. If it snows, Obertilliach and Sillian are sick and barely anyone skis there. I was in Obertilliach one day last season following 50cms of overnight snow following 2+metres snow the two days prior. There was my group of 3 people and one other group of 4 skiing. Epic day!
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Livigno has a fair bit out of the back of the Mottolino side.
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 Then you can post your own questions or snow reports...
Then you can post your own questions or snow reports...
I think you mean easily accessed off-piste as well as itineries? Usual caveats - off-piste is off-piste and you should carry avi gear and know how to use it. That said, many of us have done a lot of skiing near to pistes without it. I say that as a statement of fact not a recommendation.

Les Contamines is a good choice for a large expansive of relatively easy and relatively low risk off-piste. A lot of its skiing is in a big north facing bowl. The pistes take a relatively small share of the bowl and the areas between the pistes are large. The angle is quite gentle and not overhung by steep snow fields. You can of course still get into trouble but on the scale of these things it is the lower end. There are more adventurous options, steeper, trickier route-finding, longer descents but for those you need experience and gear and/or a guide.
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 After all it is free Go on u know u want to!
After all it is free Go on u know u want to!
@ironmonkey, Hello and Welcome to Snowheads !

I have noticed that the parts of Italy I have been to the Italians have slalom skis, sharp jackets, excellent food and ski almost exclusively in the beautifully prepared pistes.
This leaves much side piste available for those of us who know what we are doing there.
However please note that you may be arrested by the police if you are not properly prepared with avalanche kit (and the ability to use it effectively)

Other countries seem to be more relaxed if you go and kill yourself...but l would not be happy if you brought an avalanche down on me, If you are going to venture off piste, it would be good to learn a bit about the risks you are getting into before you kill anyone. Wherever you are skiing, it is on snow that is resting on the side of a slope (or covering massive cracks in ice like that nice smooth slope on the Marmolada - there is a reason why no-one else has laid tracks across it, and this time it isn't lunch or slalom skis).

Get a book - eg 'Staying alive in avalanche terrain' so you will start getting an eye for safer routes (no route is ever 100% safe - even on open resort pistes or inbound US).

You could also join a Snowheads off-piste type bash - the guide will hopefully keep you safe from things you don't even know to look for yet. Admin usually caters for all levels so you will go places you never thought possible and do it with a bunch of great people at your level.

Easiski (Charlotte Swift) in Les Deux Alpes is an enthusiastic instructor who is running a group of 'on 2 off piste' - if the conditions are favourable she may introduce you to La Grave - the ski area with one massive mountain, One massive Lift and no grooming...plenty of options to thrill/kill yourself in a couloir.
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Hi all, sorry for the confusion. Does the word "piste" cover both groomed and ungroomed?

I meant exactly that, ungroomed runs controlled for avalanches, preferably marked or patrolled. Or nice ungroomed snow next to/near groomed runs.

I dont mean off piste and I dont want to go to Le Grave, I will certainly kill myself. I only want to ski nice long runs on uncompacted snow safely without a guide.
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Quote:

I only want to ski nice long runs on uncompacted snow safely without a guide.


Good luck with that. You are more dependent on the weather than anything else if this is what you are looking for. I suggest asking santa for a crystal ball Very Happy
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Quote:

I meant exactly that, ungroomed runs controlled for avalanches, preferably marked or patrolled. Or nice ungroomed snow next to/near groomed runs.

Look for piste nutur on the piste map, but do not be surprised to see moguls the size of cars and lots of other people. Piste of this type include most of the blacks in Les Arcs and a few of the outstanding reds. They (malgovert, claire blanc) may be marked as red but many people find them as challenging as some blacks.
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 And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
@ironmonkey, I think you want a resort with lots of naturides. There are quite a few in Tignes - but they are all heavily mogulled and mostly very steep black runs. They are marked and patrolled but never groomed. The piste-side stuff gets tracked out very quickly.

St Anton is a good shout as well.
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So if you're just off somewhere snowy come back and post a snow report of your own and we'll all love you very much
Hi @ironmonkey, well...it can be confusing.

Generally, there will always be exceptions but :
In the USA : Resorts own the mountain, and will have fences at the boundary. They have 'in bounds and out bounds skiing; some will arrest you if you try out bounds.
In bounds covers everything that is bashed by a piste machine, not bashed, in trees, over cliffs etc. You can ski it if you wish. They will do their best to reduce avalanche risk in in-bounds, closing areas or the whole mountain(s) if they can't. Pistes are places they have graded and signposted so you can get around. They may or may not have bashed them smooth. Some they may never bash smooth.

In Europe : Resorts have all sorts of ownwership issues and there is no boundary to the whole area. There is no in or out bounds concept at all. BUT resorts will mark 'pistes' - on their maps and by coloured poles on both sides of the piste. They will protect hazards like lift towers and trees and steep side drops with fences. They will protect the Pistes from sliding in an avalanche, or from being covered by an avalanche from above.
The areas outside those piste marker poles - even only 1mm outside them - is not covered - you are on your own and better have off piste insurance.
The areas outside the marker poles may in some cases be of similar risk to the piste itsself as the resort will have attempted to stabilize snow above it but consider an example : dropping off the edge of a piste that traverses across a hill in order to run alongside and pop back on a bit later - that slope may well be uncontrolled if it has no piste or road or infrastructure below.

Pistes may be closed. Many reasons eg : insufficient snow cover; avalanche risk; accident; conserving snow to build base; race prep or running etc.

Pistes are usually groomed (bashed). Off piste is usually left as the snow fell. Off piste dose not equal powder. Off piste can be mashed up piste basher ice chunks, crust, windslab, soup, porridge, etc...and sometimes deep floaty powder. Pistes are not always bashed every day, depending on use and how cut up or how much the resort values perfect flattering pistes. OR they bash them in the evening and...it snows overnight. Some pistes are rarely bashed due to steepness and form lovely large bumps.

There are basic concerns here : in Europe going off piste it would be sensible to have off piste insurance without a guide; plus the lift companies insurance as an add on to the lift pass will help when they call the helicopter; plus some understanding of the risk. The French resorts fly nice coloured flags at lift stations to help you understand their view of avalanche risk on that part of the mountain. You can also find daily avalanche reports in most ski areas detailing risk at altitude, aspect, historical snow pack info etc.

The risk scale is 1-5. There is no level 0 !

5 generally equates to : risk of major damage to infrastructure = roads and hotels....it only takes a 20m slide off the side of a piste to kill you and they can still happen at risk 2 or 3...so think carefully, asses the terrain and stay in the hotel at risk level 4 or 5.

Itineraries / ski routes : As @DB says are dotted on the map, marked by a single line of poles down the approximate centre. They are seldom bashed, but frequently used so tend to become bumpfests. They will be avalanche protected. They have no edges except as defined by terrain...so you need to be aware of cliffs etc. Fresh snow will make them even more fun bumps hidden by powder Smile

I think you are searching for the impossible : if it is beside a piste, smooth fresh powder - get a job as a piste patroller to get out there for first run before the lifts open. Second run and it will have been skied out by the Swedes. Find someone with similar level and outlook - its a bit daft to go off piste on your own where noone else is.

Oh yes, and do not be tempted to follow old ski tracks...you have no idea where they go or if they had ropes/harness when they got there. A guide...will. Many resorts have guided groups offered by ski schools or tourist office or the local mountain guide groups. They will find you good skiing. They usually will not be alongside the pistes.
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 You know it makes sense.
You know it makes sense.
Oh yes... and carry a whistle - where you can get to it easily (some backpacks now have them in the chest strap clip).
I know of someone who took one last run on her own...fell off the side of the piste and hit a tree.
With a broken leg she couldn't climb out, was missed by the piste patrol and they found her body in the morning Sad
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 Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Try Canada
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 Poster: A snowHead
Poster: A snowHead
Club Med, Group 4 "ski school" as part of your (not so cheap) hoiday - guided off piste and steeps for 4-5 hours per day.
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 Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Firstly I would not go on my own
But it sounds to me like you want to chase the snow – book late with an eye on the conditions – but too much snow and resorts will close the vast majority of runs
A good area to look at beginning (if snow conditions are suitable) is the milky way in Italy – there are long (ish) gentle (ish) slopes and should not busy in January and pretty cheap. But with good snow there are opportunities in most resorts.
I would personally go on a course – they cater for all levels and can be fun – plus they know which areas hold powder even when there has been no snow for a few days - have fun
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 Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
There is loads of the stuff your looking for at Ski Monterosa. Many of the pistes have ungroomed sections either side of them that you can reccie from the lifts. And if conditions are right you can get the lift to the freeride area at the top. Strictly speaking you're meant to have the full transponder kit with you to take the freeride lift but if you have a rucksack on your back they'll let you past (with the caveat you shouldn't do this alone & obviously only when ski conditions & visibility are good) But also do get a guide for a day as there are some great bits you'd never find without one.
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Jasna, Slovakia - Dedicated/lift served freeride area and relaxed attitude to piste bashing.
Freeride world cup was staged here recently also. Looks like a fun area to ski.

Obviously it would be better to go with people and use the correct equipment too.

These fellas are meant to be good to book with and do off piste guiding/lessons etc - http://www.propagandaski.co.uk/

thinking of doing a lads trip with the direct flights to nearby Poprad returning for this season.

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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
@ironmonkey, hello and welcome.

A great question.

In a lot of European resorts there are unpisted pistes which are 'on piste" and safe to ski without a guide. There are lots in Espace Killy and les Arcs, there are one or two in Obergurgl, Argentiere has the epic Pont de Vue, Pylons and Variant Hotel. BUT generally speaking these runs are quite hard - I mean difficult for an intermediate- i.e. steep. Some get really quite nasty- big bumps, icy, steep and possibly rocky with bare bits on them.

In just a few European resorts there are free ride areas (see above) but again these tend to be aimed at a higher level than you are looking at. Although I didn't do much because I was with my then even smaller kids Arcalis in Andorra is potentially epic in this respect. I haven't been there but Baqueira is supposed to be good value and have a policy more akin to North America vis if you can get there you can ski it with lots of easily accessible 'inbounds off piste'. Perhaps someone with local knowledge will be along in a while.

Where I have been with lots of easily accessible in bounds unpisted snow is Whistler- treat yourself.

But perhaps what you really need is a bit of tuition or to get dragged along on some relatively easy / accessible / safe off piste with mates. (Please don't flame me everyone- this is how normal people learn how to do all sorts of difficult / dangerous things; climb mountains, trek, sail, deal drugs etc, there isn't always a course or money for everything).

Dare I even mention SCGB- except not in France or a snow heads bash?

Best of luck- but tell us your ski history / cash flow / friends and we can advise more.

How many weeks skiing? Where? What tuition? Any other skills esp re outdoors?
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It might be worth looking at some of the off-piste weeks run in UCPA centres - they do all kinds of levels, not all super gnarly (though some definitely are).
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I really wish resorts would bash their normally unabashed pistes just before a snow storm. Nothing upsets me more than a beautiful 'looking' untouched pitch with icy moguls just below the surface.
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 After all it is free Go on u know u want to!
After all it is free Go on u know u want to!
Quote:

Best of luck- but tell us your ski history / cash flow / friends and we can advise more.

Literally only a weeks skiing in total. Can do the occasional black ungroomed run if there are no rocks/cliffs. No training in ski touring, avalanche safety, etc.
As for my budget, probably max $160 a day for ski pass+rental+accom for 14-20 days skiing. Dont intend to ski in a group.
Quote:

Jasna, Slovakia - Dedicated/lift served freeride area and relaxed attitude to piste bashing.

Yes that sounds like the type of resort I'm after. Lots of 'freeride' areas and 'freeride' trails. Although I probably still prefer Gudauri as I like skiing above the treeline.
Quote:

There is loads of the stuff your looking for at Ski Monterosa. Many of the pistes have ungroomed sections either side of them that you can reccie from the lifts. And if conditions are right you can get the lift to the freeride area at the top. Strictly speaking you're meant to have the full transponder kit with you to take the freeride lift but if you have a rucksack on your back they'll let you past (with the caveat you shouldn't do this alone & obviously only when ski conditions & visibility are good) But also do get a guide for a day as there are some great bits you'd never find without one.

You talking about Alagna? If you are, I've read that outside of the "olen" piste its serious territory that needs a guide. Is the stuff beside the olen piste great? What about the tamer areas in Champoluc and Gressoney?
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This what you mean?


http://youtube.com/v/u7FkMRWlKxc



Loads on Hokkaido. Start saving for a two week trip.

You can do it for £150-200 per day. All in
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I'll add my 2 cents. I Think ungroomed intermediate runs are a bit of an oxymoron. If it's intermediate it's mostly groomed because it's for intermediates that don't ski ungroomed that well. I guess the resort could not groom a run, but then it's bumped up, and needs to be groomed. In the us, there is avalanches controlled areas that are often. It groomed. It's often "through the gates" and designated as for experts. Sometimes they will cut a cat track through the bowl, so intermediates can wind their way around the bowl, and experts can ski the ungroomed right down the middle. I think that's what u really want, but I haven't seen that type of grooming as much in Europe. It seems more on or off piste or ski tour, but the latter is often groomed anyway. Can't help with the slide controlled ungroomed in Europe, but most big western us resorts have it, alta, snowbird, vail, aspen, summit county, etc. having said that, it's still a good idea to at least take a lesson that will take u into these pjs ds at least once. While not as big as the alps ( where u can get lost in a different country) the bowls are still big places with lots of trouble if one doesn't know how to get out.
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@ironmonkey, With 1 week under your belt I really don't think it matters where you go really. Just get as much skiing in as possible- ideally tagging along with better (and wiser) skiers if not with tuition.


I'd be a bit careful about ungroomed snow until you have a bit more experience as I think the most likely scenario for a blown ACL is an intermediate / beginner going into soft snow and having a slow backwards fall.

I can wholeheartedly recommend Martin Hecklemans ski tuition videos- probably in Youtube. Face down hill- hands where you can see them and get out of the back seat….oh equal weighting in the soft stuff.

Where are you based, how fit, other sports what other outdoors experience? All this is very relevant. But sadly unless you live near a local ski slope so is budget...
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 And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
@ironmonkey,

Without wanting to sound rude but aware of the risk that I might, you're not (at least in my view) an intermediate with only a week's experience.

I'm not even sure you know what it is that you want or at least, describe it.

What don't you like about groomed pistes. Where have you skied? e.g. East coast US is often hard and icy and grooming pre-freeze results in icy corduroy, which not everyone will take to.
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 So if you're just off somewhere snowy come back and post a snow report of your own and we'll all love you very much
So if you're just off somewhere snowy come back and post a snow report of your own and we'll all love you very much
@under a new name, +1
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 You know it makes sense.
You know it makes sense.
As @lampbus says. Come to USA. Many resorts have acres of big open bowls or hillsides where you choose whatever line you want. Everything within bounds, unless stated is fair game, patrolled and avalanche managed.
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 Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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@ironmonkey, I love your ambition to do something apart from the norm. But, very, very seriously, I echo ed123's comments. With one week under your belt, you'd be better off spending your time and money on a week in ski school or private lessons before heading for the ungroomed mountain, whether genuine off-piste or piste natur! Let that be something to look forward to when you are better equipped, in every sense of the word, to handle it.
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 Poster: A snowHead
Poster: A snowHead
Redwine wrote:
I Think ungroomed intermediate runs are a bit of an oxymoron.
This. (At least in my experience.) Permanently unpisted but controlled and map-marked runs tend to be aimed at more advanced skiers, because if an easy run is going to be controlled and marked then there isn't much incentive for resorts to leave it unpisted, since the majority of their paying clients would prefer it to be bashed. However, the itineraries/naturides and freeride areas found in some resorts don't necessarily have to be precipitous mogul-fests...
ed123 wrote:
In just a few European resorts there are free ride areas (see above) but again these tend to be aimed at a higher level than you are looking at. Although I didn't do much because I was with my then even smaller kids Arcalis in Andorra is potentially epic in this respect. I haven't been there but Baqueira is supposed to be good value and have a policy more akin to North America vis if you can get there you can ski it with lots of easily accessible 'inbounds off piste'. Perhaps someone with local knowledge will be along in a while.
Yup, these were precisely the two I was going to suggest in the Pyrenees. Baqueira in Spain has a few never-pisted controlled itineraries, and some black pistes (which used to be itineraries or well-known off-piste routes until this season) which will be left unpisted after fresh snowfall; and they are rarely mogulled. Arcalís in Andorra has dedicated freeride zones - though again they're not your typical intermediate skier fayre.

Really, I think perhaps what you need is to simply progress your off-piste career, as others have suggested. For that, you need resorts with lots of pretty safe mellow open areas that don't get tracked out. So there, the secret is to choose resorts which are not much frequented by beginner-intermediate off-piste skiers, or which are simply quiet. In the Pyrenees (which is what I know), Grandvalira in Andorra and Baqueira fall into the former category, whilst most of the other resorts fall into the latter. But basically, pick a resort at random anywhere in the world with fewer than 100km of piste and which no-one you know has heard of before, and it's likely that it'll have some suitable off-piste areas that don't immediately get stampeded. For entry-level stuff, the bare minimum of common sense will allow you to select areas which are safe (which can sometime include ignoring areas that other people are unwisely skiing in). Beyond that, the idea is that you'd ski with other people who are more experienced who could select the areas for you.. or hire a guide if you have no-one to ski with.
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 Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Yeah, but, no, but,...

Almost by definition anything that's never groomed will require more gradient than a 1 week skier is likely to be happy with all of the time. Doesn't matter where. They're just likely to get themselves into trouble and be unhappy. I think the OP is just struggling with descriptions.

Or Shocked trolling...
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 Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
@ironmonkey,

Now I don't want to be presumptious in relation to how much experience and/or skills you can or can't have acquired during your first week of skiing, however, having said that I'm with @lampbus & @alex99, that a tuition focused approach at this earlier stage in your skiing career might be the way forward!

The better your technique is on piste before you make the transition into ungroomed/off piste skiing, the easier the transition will be and the more transferable skills you will have gained.

Have you heard of UCPA holidays? They are targetted at people sub-40 & the pricing is really favourable because they are a French not for profit organisation offering affordable all inclusive ski and snowboard holidays to top French resorts. Accommodation, lift pass, ski hire, 3 meals per day and instruction or guiding are included in the price. Resorts they go to are for example Val Thorens, Tignes, Val d'Isere, Chammonix, Flaines, Argentiere or Serre Chevalier (sorry for the missing accents, wrong keyboard).

Their UK booking agent is Action Outdoors.

http://www.action-outdoors.co.uk/

If you do a forum search on them, there is also a discount code for the 2014/15 season knocking around somewhere (not that the prices aren't already super affordable without that, the only thing you need to book yourself is transport - though they do coach travel from London I think).
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Quote:
Almost by definition anything that's never groomed will require more gradient than a 1 week skier is likely to be happy with all of the time.

Ungroomed intermediate freeride isnt an oxymoron. The small resort where i last skied (Mt Cheeseman in New Zealand) has these areas, i got hooked, hence my question about the best resort that has the same qualities.
Quote:

This what you mean?

That is EXACTLY what im looking for. Thank you. Although pity that the resorts in Japan are low lying tree covered mountains.
Quote:

Really, I think perhaps what you need is to simply progress your off-piste career, as others have suggested.

I cant emphasize more that I dont want to ride hardcore gnarly trails requiring a guide. I want nature rides, freeride trails, ungroomed intermediate runs, whatever you call them....

Also, the learning curve between groomed and ungroomed is substantial. Not sure how people can easily transition from black piste to black off piste without endangering themselves. I thought this is what intermediate ungroomed trails are for...


Last edited by You need to Login to know who's really who. on Wed 26-11-14 12:54; edited 1 time in total
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 Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Quote:

This what you mean?


That clip to me looks like a normal pisted ski run (although I admit i can't see the piste poles) which has:
a) had a bit of overnight snow on it (after having been piste-bashed the previous evening)
b) being skied for the first time that day the following morning, hence the fresh tracks.

The off piste bit to the side of the run with deeper powder is exactly that, off-piste untracked powder right next to the run.

I don't think what is shown in that clip is a typical situation, and its not really possible (I don't think) to "find" a resort with those conditions, they just happen when there is overnight snow after the piste bashers have been.


Last edited by Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do. on Wed 26-11-14 13:03; edited 1 time in total
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P.S. there isn't such a thing as
Quote:

ungroomed intermediate runs


"intermediate" is a subjective term, and as for ungroomed runs, these aren't too common..... "ski routes" which are ungroomed are really not designed for skiiers with only 1 weeks experience, they are often a lot steeper than that gentle gradient in the clip/vide posted above.
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 Then you can post your own questions or snow reports...
Then you can post your own questions or snow reports...
@ironmonkey, are you in Europe or NZ?

Mt Cheeseman is not a small resort. It's tiny. It hardly has ski lifts. No wonder there's no grooming. Hardly room to 3 point turn a groomer.

Srsly. In typical European conditions (which Mike's video is not), off piste will often be too heavy to get through without adequate gravity assist (see my point above), or cut up, or icy, or bumpy, or something. None of which is what you seem to be looking for. Sure, as @alex99, says, sometimes you wake up to snow like that.
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 After all it is free Go on u know u want to!
After all it is free Go on u know u want to!
I don't know New Zealand skiing, but it sounds like it could be like US skiing as mentioned further above, where there's just the whole mountain within boundary and you can effectively go anywhere.

It's generally not like that in Europe, though there are areas that will let you go off the groomed piste into ungroomed or have ungroomed runs. Some have bowls or back bowls which are just open areas usually with a groomed piste running through it and you can play about wherever. All depends on the weather and how busy it is though. Good heavy fresh dumps and it's off piste style skiing. After a few hours in a busy resort it's tracked out and skiiable without needing powder skills, but can be a mess and challenging where steep or even where snow cover is thin underneath.

Was surprised with Italy this year in that there were a lot of deep powder areas off the groomed pistes but very few people went into it. No boundary markers or anything to say no go. They were further out so was within boundary. Just seemed very odd people didn't touch the stuff. I was having a great laugh in untouched snow Very Happy (or maybe I was being foolish and didn't know something they all knew about!).

Anyway, I'm used to US skiing and like to go wherever. Europe can disappoint in that way, though it does chuck in some serious challenges, vast resorts and more stunning scenery.


Last edited by After all it is free Go on u know u want to! on Wed 26-11-14 13:11; edited 1 time in total
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
Quote:

Not sure how people can easily transition from black piste to black off piste without endangering themselves. I


The answer to this is: you don't!

Well, by making sure that they can do a hard black piste in a resort which isn't known for "vanity run grading" stylishly in control, choosing different lines, parallel, utilising a variety of techniques suited to the slopes and the conditions including but not limited to such as controlle traversing, hochtiefentlasten, jump turns, braquage, self-arrest etc. (If you don't know what any of these are and/or can't do them confidently, then some on piste lessons are in order) might be

You then don't transition from black piste to black off piste, you then transition from black piste to very gentle green/blue off piste under the guidance of very experienced and sensible/responsible friends or even better an instructor!

Another great way is - though this is very weather/snowfall dependent - is if you are lucky enough to ski in a resort on pistes which are not groomed because there were very heavy snowfalls and they were able to open up the resort but didn't have time to groom or are waiting for the snowfall to completely stop.
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 Ski the Net with snowHeads
Ski the Net with snowHeads
Glencoe IIRC last winter - one huge - ski anywhere piste - with grooming where the pistes should have been - and guess what no trees!

Strange that you prefer no trees IMO as above the tree line unless a bluebird/fair day, conditions can be somewhat grim, windy, poor visibilty and liable to closure.
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