 Poster: A snowHead
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| Fattes13 wrote: |
Big group photo of Basi trainers under the words courses across the globe
Header photo on page with Basi trainers no helmet
Each of the photos for category on right of the page No helmets, except for Adaptive and Race (Featuring a racer in a GS course)
http://www.basi.org.uk/index.aspx |
Red jackets are from around ~2008.
It's one thing to pose for a picture and another to be involved in speedy manoeuvres. A good reason on why they are wearing helmets was made by stevomcd. The thread has wandered so far off the track it could end up beside Philae.
Bit hard to gauge anything from that big group photo. I was in Zermatt when some of the shots taken and don't think many trainers wore helmets but then again they were not there for demo team training. I was doing the MS course and even then the helmets were strapped to rucksacks during climbs and often not put back on heads; apart from when it snowed and that was more for warmth. None of the guides that I remember wore helmets (possibly one).
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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Rob, Or possibly.
Shock horror BASI trainers are advocating skiing without wearing ski boots, i have photographic proof, see above.
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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| rob@rar wrote: |
| From the Trainers Conference today |
No helmet by Freshie's side?
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
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| Quote: |
Red jackets are from around ~2008.
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But the core point was "BASI were part of a global conspiracy to increase helmet use" Surely if that was the case their Website, their primary marketing tool would reflect the point being made by DG. It does not. That was what I was illustrating.
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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@skison, maybe, I think he wears one more often than not, which I guess is unsurprising given his interests in the coaching pathway.
@ansta1, 
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@skison, there is an official vid of the selection day on youtube. some candidates are wearing helmets, some not. CG would probably interpret it as showing that only helmet wearers go selected, thus confirming BASI's bias!!!
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@Arno, At leaset two of the Interski demo team have never worn a helmet when I have skied with them, maybe 5/6 weeks in total
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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@Fattes13, are the skiers in that photo without helmets the same ones that appear in this photo with helmets?
http://snowheads.com/ski-forum/viewtopic.php?t=113734&start=80#2608117
What I'm trying to establish here is whether Interski is influencing the use of helmets ... and whether BASI wants to present itself as a helmet-promoting association, in line with the published quotes of its president and chairman?
And, of course, the all-helmetted Facebook header photo (right)
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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This may all seem a bit mystifying to anyone new to this debate ... it's been going on for 15 years ... but the big skiing institutions are well known for promoting helmets, and have been doing this over the past decade or more. Here's what the FIS said in 2006 ...
http://www.fis-ski.com/mm/Document/document/General/04/23/68/Feb222006FISstronglyrecommendsuseofhelmets_Neutral.pdf
"FIS strongly recommends the use of helmets for all alpine skiers and snowboarders regardless of skiing ability and age."
"At the same time, head injury is the most common cause of hospital visits and death among alpine skiers and snowboarders."
True or false?
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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@Comedy Goldsmith, still ignoring the lack of helmets on the BASI man web page, would you like to address the specific questions asked of you or continue to lodge your head in the sand? I actually pity you, you manage to make a sport and pastime that is filled with joy and fun seem miserable!
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Why are you barking at us?
| Quote: |
For further information, please contact:
Professor Bengt Saltin, Chairman of FIS Medical Committee, on +45 40 36 07 16
Sarah Lewis, FIS Secretary General, on +39 339 711 3054
Riikka Rakic, Communications Manager, on +41 79 64 34 281 |
Ring them and find out - check your sources... Thats what a journalist would do.
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You know it makes sense.
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| Richard_Sideways wrote: |
| Why are you barking at us? |
It was a very silent question, Richard.
The "true or false?" question was deliberately rhetorical. This is what ski-injury.com says ...
| Quote: |
| If you look at the incidence of head injuries on the slopes, most studies show that they constitute about 10-20% of all injuries. |
Source: http://ski-injury.com/specific-injuries/head
I agree with your inference that the FIS should tell us how they came up with that one.
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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That wasn't my inference, that was yours. I inferred you should ask someone that isn't me.
You inferred some hidden agenda at the FIS. Here's a rule of thumb - never attribute anything to intent that can be more easily answered by stupidity. Those FIS 'statistics' are clearly wrong to anyone at a first glance and in a hastily slung together press statement which you only read because you Googled it looking for ammo for your endless 'campaign'.
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Poster: A snowHead
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I heard that big Pharma, Tobacco, Booze and Financial Service were all looking at disposing of their core businesses and getting into ski helmets as that's where it's easiest to rig the markets and make huge megabucks on spurious claims. One man's pioneering journalistic quest is all that stands between us and helmetaggedon.
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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@Richard_Sideways, You think the FIS aren't in with the industry to push helmet sales?
Sure, the FIS statement is outrageous and it's still there - 8 years later, uncorrected. Call it stupid if you like, but I've other evidence of skiing institutions publishing grossly misleading data to push helmets.
How do you think the helmet industry, with its ineffective awkward products, can punt them into mainstream 'fashion/fear' without the help of 'credible partners'?
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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Regulate them out of existence. Protect the poor innocent punter from parting with his cash based on his own choices and decisions. Form quangos and committees to endlessly test claims. Ban anyone from saying anything anywhere about something which is not absolutely their core area of expertise.
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
You need to Login to know who's really who.
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| Richard_Sideways wrote: |
Ring them and find out - check your sources... Thats what a good journalist would do. |
FTFY
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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| Dave of the Marmottes wrote: |
| I heard that big Pharma, Tobacco, Booze and Financial Service were all looking at disposing of their core businesses and getting into ski helmets as that's where it's easiest to rig the markets and make huge megabucks on spurious claims. One man's pioneering journalistic quest is all that stands between us and helmetaggedon. |
the illuminati are already in there
or was it the Knights Templar?
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You'll need to Register first of course.
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It's amazing how much personal crap flies around on this forum - even after 10 years.
It's possible to discuss stuff based on shared evidence only, rather than descending into pointless personal crap.
This thread is about BASI trainers at elite level ... and whether there are influences to wear helmets ... for instance for photocalls.
Or is helmet-wearing at this elite level, in demonstration events, a matter of free personal choice?
Does Interski influence the wearing of helmets? Will the BASI team at Interski 2015 have a helmet sponsor, and a uniform approach?
------------------------------
Meanwhile (right) ... May 2014 ... the Pope blesses Interski 2015, wearing helmet.
Source: http://www.argentinaonline.tv/#!El-Interski-2015-ya-tiene-la-bendicin-del-Papa-Francisco/c1o3i/3601E6D5-BF53-43DB-8F23-D8F7758B4A45
"Interski 2015, an event that will bring together nearly 2,000 skiers from around the world in Ushuaia ... received the blessing of Pope Francis during his traditional public hearing. This delegation to the Vatican was led by Minister of Tourism of the Nation, Enrique Meyer, the governor of Tierra del Fuego , Fabiana Rios, and the mayor of the city of Ushuaia, Federico Sciurano"
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| Quote: |
This thread is about BASI trainers at elite level ... and whether there are influences to wear helmets ... for instance for photocalls.
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The consensus on this thread seems to be that BASI trainers are not being influenced to wear helmets for photocalls or anything else. But who cares about that? Do carry on I'm enjoying it. 
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| Quote: |
and whether there are influences to wear helmets ... for instance for photocalls.
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Come on DG, so you really think that the photographer for a shot of instructors destined to appear in the media suddenly says, 'right, those with helmets go and put them on 'cos we need to present the right image guys'? I can just imagine the response!!
For that matter if the BASI don't want to appear biased they should ensure that all instructor photos are 50/50 men/women or that every one is holding a different brand of ski - how far do you take it and why do you think it's just about helmets?
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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| Quote: |
This thread is about BASI trainers at elite level ... and whether there are influences to wear helmets ... for instance for photocalls.
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Then please discuss the BASI website it has been highlighted to you repeatedly that it features 70 or more skiers & only 3 helmets!! Or the multiple Inter ski photos also posted here with no helmets!
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Does Interski influence the wearing of helmets? Will the BASI team at Interski 2015 have a helmet sponsor, and a uniform approach?
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Salomon, are a sponsor of the BASI interski team but the helmets pictured in the photos you have provided are from various companies
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| Comedy Goldsmith wrote: |
It's possible to discuss stuff based on shared evidence only, rather than descending into pointless personal crap.
This thread is about BASI trainers at elite level ... and whether there are influences to wear helmets |
Several people who actually ski with and know the people/organisation have told you there aren't.
Given all of them are longstanding posters on SH who regularly post informative content, I'm quite happy to trust them on that. I don't understand why you won't - particularly someone like Rob.
The personal stuff is probably becuase this is your all too familiar pattern - you NEVER recognise that you might be in the wrong, no matter how many people disagree with you and provide evidence. Every time you start one of these threads, you ignore anything anyone says that goes against your OPINION and continue to very selectively post things that do support your view until everyone else gets bored. I assume when people stop posting back you take that as you having 'won' the debate though, which is why you continue.
I don't think you're actually trying to find the 'truth' at all, you just want to push your views.
Edit: Of course they all have sponsors. Every skier over BASI3 will be at the very least on a pro-deal.
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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Do you suspect that they're on the take? Getting free stuff/paid to modify their opinion? Not declaring some kind of personal interest which wouldn't stand up to some kind of ethical scrutiny?
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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It's obvious why the pro-helmet lobby is gaining ground - two reasons, (i) professional liability insurance - not wearing a helmet could be argued to void cover in certain circumstances and (ii) professional liability - stating that a helmet is not necessary and then having client/customer end up in a wheelchair could expose an instructor (or their insurance company, more likely) to a claim. An insurance company could well argue that it was negligent to proffer such advice and deny cover to the instructor against a claim by the client. Resul: one very bankrupt ski instructor/company/organisation. It costs nothing to say wearing one is better than not and the message to the instructing community is much clearer if an insurance company states they might withdraw instructor cover if said instructors are not doing what they can to minimise claims, both for themselves and their clients.
C'mon guys, get with it.
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While we await further clues/evidence as to what's happening in 'lid modelling' ...
I thought it would be interesting to see how Ellis Brigham and Snow+Rock - the principal UK retailers of ski kit - are punting helmets this winter. Their respective catalogues say ...
"Snowsports helmets have featured heavily in the media this past winter and debate rages about mandatory usage. We're not about to tell you that you must wear a helmet, but we do have a range which will make that decision much easier ... Helmets may not be the answer for everybody or provide unlimited protection, but they can make a difference and for that reason we encourage their use."
[Ellis Brigham 'White Book' page 144]
"The events of recent years have placed the issue of ski safety firmly in the public eye, increasing the demand for ski helmets in particular ... Many resorts are now making it a requirement for children to wear helmets and although it's not compulsory for adults, we believe that a helmet should be an essential part of your winter kit list."
[Snow+Rock 'Winter 2014/15' catalogue page 137]
Of those two, I think the Ellis Brigham copy is fair and reasonable - given that they can hardly be expected to retain an entirely neutral position. The Snow+Rock copy is, to my mind, unacceptable - it seems to wish for mandatory helmets for adults.
Others may disagree - if they feel that helmets are "essential".
Last edited by So if you're just off somewhere snowy come back and post a snow report of your own and we'll all love you very much  on Fri 14-11-14 15:35; edited 2 times in total
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You know it makes sense.
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[NB The EB hyperlinks are not my doing]
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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| Comedy Goldsmith wrote: |
The Snow+Rock copy is, to my mind, unacceptable - it seems to wish for mandatory helmets for adults.
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Really? 
They make a factual statement and provide an opinion that is merely a marketing ploy. That's all. I can't see any other interpretation. At all.
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Poster: A snowHead
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Forsooth, when preparing for an expedition I have my coachman take me to an outfitting emporium in the Borough of Kensington. There I find the clerks are most solicitous and I can trust the absolute veracity of their verbiage for to render falsehoods or dare I say it "flim flam" in the petty bourgeois pursuit of money would prove them to be scoundrels or common thieves and bring shame on themselves, the good name of their merchant employers and their families.
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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Carving Skis & Groomed Pistes (speed & collisions) are the biggest cause of all injurys ....Uber confidence
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
You need to Login to know who's really who.
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Well we'd all better hope that the authorities at every ski resort don't get a hold of that Snow & Rock catalogue then...
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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I found this in a catalogue too:
"As well as protecting your head from impact damage, they also keep you super warm. On top of that, they look pretty cool too. Choose from our vast selection of products, in an assortment of colours, styles and designs. You are sure to find that statement piece to give you the edge when hitting the slopes this season."
Tantamount to brainwashing I tell you
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You'll need to Register first of course.
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Thank GOD that nobody actually picks up and reads the SnR catalogue anymore.
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The awesome girls in Zermatt today. No jokes about how few helmets are on display.
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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Never mind the helmet thing, they do look like they're wearing one pieces.
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Clearly that photo was staged for effect. Foul i say 
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FAQ
