 Poster: A snowHead
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Couple of questions guys:
1) how do you become heli skiing guide? Can a basi lev.4 ems do that? Theorically speaking, no axes or crampons are involved..
2) i know ski instructors (basi, but also italians maestri di sci) can not teach on "glacier tetrain". What does glacier mean? It applies also to Tignes (outside of ski area) or only to real glaciers like the ones in Alaska..
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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maddrifter, plenty of people die on the pretend glaciers in Chamonix.
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
You need to Login to know who's really who.
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maddrifter, depends on where you want to do it. I'd have thought the opportunities to specialise in heli served skiing would be quite limited in Europe even if you are a full cert UIAGM guide
In Canada, there is a ski guide designation which (I believe) is enough to get you work with a cat or heli skiing operation
http://www.acmg.ca/03public/courses/skiguide.asp#1_1
Some guides out there also have UIAGM certification, but it's not an absolute necessity as I understand it. philwig might be worth a PM if he doesn't respond to this thread - he seems pretty well up on this stuff as it applies to Canada
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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Thanks man! Seems pointless to me to be necessary to be a guide (UIAGM) to heliski, i believe a ski instructor qualification plus freeridespec should be enought!
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You'll need to Register first of course.
You'll need to Register first of course.
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Ski instructors can do heli-skiing, just within their remit - i.e. not on glaciers. For sure, there are glaciers and then there are glaciers... I'd go with altis' definition...
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What Arno said - it depends where you want to go, and Europe is going to be quite limited.
If you're thinking about Europe, then I know nothing about that - I've never ridden a heli there. I believe that in Europe you may use a heli to get to the top of your run, but that's it. In a typical Canadian operator you're going to be dropping off 15 times a day, marshalling customers, fuel, terrain, weather, radios, and snowpack to deliver a lot of vertical to very demanding customers. It's a different deal.
In Canada then, there's a lot of history and politics because of that difference. The UIAGM guys didn't care about it, so the industry created their own systems. I think Wiegele invented the CGSA. http://www.canskiguide.com/ I remember being highly amused at the time - it's like the guys who own the Three Valleys telling the ESF that they're not very relevant. There's also ACMG, maybe others.
Wiegele's figured out that Level 4 ski instructors make better guides than people with badges in Extreme climbing, or with great "Euro Test" times. I think there's been a bit of peace making since then, and I'm not quite sure what you could do today with a European UIAGM qualification alone. It's not where you'd start if heli was your goal, I'd say.
In principle I believe that you can run as a tail guide without any badges at all. Oh, I suppose I've done that - just as well it wasn't in France or I'd be in court. That's the standard route into the job I think - you will need to be an excellent rider, the competition will be stiff, and the chances are you'll have picked up some badges in order to get there. Otherwise I think it works like an apprentice system with formal training courses thrown in. The "big dogs" (the guides people who know the business ride with) all have their level 4 instructor badges, although I've never seen anyone actually "instruct". Top level heli guiding pays reasonably well, although most people won't make it there.
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This may help too, from an AK based guide:
http://freeskier.com/stories/so-you-want-be-heli-ski-guide
The final sentence is important: it's a traditional craft business at heart. Most heli businesses are run by or were started by ex guides.
I just noticed this is in the snowboard section. North American operators change their rules from time to time. Currently Wiegele won't allow "public" groups to be led or trailered by snowboarding guides. If you rent your own machine, you can have a boarding guide. Rules can be bent if you've enough clout. The rationale is that if you've got to hike then it's easier on skis. As a snowboarding guest it makes no difference at all.
Summary: if you can't ski as well as you can board then that's something to fix: they all ski.
I don't know any guides who can't ride as well as they can sk: it's a profession for athletes who like snow after all.
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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If someone is guiding me or instructing me on an unpisted glacier then I would insist that they are a qualified mountain guide. If I am in that sort of environment it is mountaineering to me.
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Europe varies. In France it's banned, but you can be lifted from your French chalet to ski in Italy if you're near the border, which may include skiing back to your chalet.
There's some heli work around Aosta, Monterosa, etc. Also, I believe in Switzerland. But much is glaciated and you need an appropriately qualified high mountain guide.
AFAIK, much of the guiding is done somewhat freelance by the guides themselves, simply booking heli lifts. But they are all guides to begin with.
Canada, as @philwig, states, is a whole different kettle of fish. I've met a couple of Europeans who heli guide (TLH and CMH) and they went out there UIAGM qualified. Canada's own guiding qualification is a little easier as you can qualify as a "Ski" guide without needing all of the "Mountain" guiding elements.
A friend guides boarding based out of Chamonix (and sometimes e.g. Kamchatka for helis) and one of his trickiest training problems was that he was/is an excellent mountaineer and snow boarder but hadn't skied. Learning to ski to guide level (which is pretty bulletproof, although not necessarily pretty) was tricky.
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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I noticed that Wiegele's looking for a junior guide this season, so you can read the job spec online. In summary their required qualifications are:
- Certified Ski Guide or Mountain Guide (Level 3 Canadian Ski Guide Association preferred)
- Level 2 Avalanche Technician (Canadian Avalanche Association)
- Advanced First Aid Attendant (80+ hours)
- Level 3 Canadian Ski Instructors Association or equivalent (level 4 preferred)
- Experienced (2 years or more) Heli-Ski Guide
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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The guides I heliskied with in Canada were a UIAGM Guide and a UIAGM aspirant + Canadian Ski Guide. While we were there the safety inspector from the industry association came in and skied with us to audit the operation. He was a UIAGM guide too (and flicking through a big coffee table book of Canadian mountaineering we found pictures of him doing some bloody desperate escapades in the Himalayas in the '80s). I suspect quite a lot of the top guys are UIAGM even though that isn't strictly necessary. The party before us had been filming a ski movie. I suspect it helps when you are telling pro freeriders what they can and cannot ski in the conditions if you have UIAGM credibility!
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