 Poster: A snowHead
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Hi all,
I've finally decided to update my ancient and ripping waterproof jacket (proofed in and out - i know, not good) made by Rockport (don't ask).
I am looking to get something that is either for warmer weather walking and hill climbing (10+ degrees C), or an all-season type jacket.
I have never really looked into this as I've never had to bother, with hand-me-downs or the Rockport to hand. So, having decided I'd rather not have to open an umbrella everywhere (perhaps, still the best option in all honesty), I'd like to understand the differences between the dizzying array of brands which cover this market; what I really need to consider in choice, whether the price differentials really mean anything, or, if there is simply added snob factor built in?
many thanks in advance...
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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Sportpursuit has Haglofs jackets at less than half price at the minute. Well worth the money.
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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| Old Skool wrote: |
| I'd like to understand the differences between the dizzying array of brands which cover this market |
Colour schemes.
Oh, and wrist closures. Seriously.
| Old Skool wrote: |
| what I really need to consider in choice, whether the price differentials really mean anything, or, if there is simply added snob factor built in? |
You may a big chunk of money for the brand, and another big chunk of money for the fabric. You'll find no shortage of people justifying their multiple-hundred-pound fancy branded jackets, but you can pay much less for perfectly good bits of clothing.
Depending on how hard you are on your gear, my recommendation would be to get a nice Active Shell or lightweight eVent jacket (or the million brand-specific names eVent has nowadays, like dryQ), and a softshell jacket to use for skiing and things. If you will be spending lots of time rock or ice climbing in the jacket, get something in goretex pro or pro shell instead (or if you tend to destroy your jackets on a regular basis) but for hiking, skiing, cycling, whatever, you don't need the heavier and pricier fabric.
Find something that fits you in a nice colour, or that comes super cheap in a sale. Easy as that.
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
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thanks Tom Doc and Serriadh.
I took a look at the sport pursuit website and the array is still dizzying, even if only Haglofs clothing. So, colour schemes were easy to distinguish, but wrist closures?
I am a reasonable user of gear, but I look after stuff too. I think, according to your sorting method, that I would fall into the destroy jackets on regular basis camp (despite little turnover, just destruction).Can I ask what is defined as super cheap, or is that simply relative?
And forgive me, but Active Shell/ eVent, and soft-shell? What are the differences and respective uses? Please don't feel obliged to explain it all. If there's a website to which you can direct me on learning, I am more than happy to read up further there.
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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| Old Skool wrote: |
| Can I ask what is defined as super cheap, or is that simply relative? |
I'd say that under £100 is super cheap for garments made from high quality fabrics like active shell. I think you've just missed a sport pursuit sale that fulfilled that criterion, but there will be others. I'd classify anything over £200 as expensive, and over £300 as silly money, but I have no idea what your budget and spending habits are like.
| Old Skool wrote: |
| but Active Shell/ eVent, and soft-shell? What are the differences and respective uses? Please don't feel obliged to explain it all. |
Just doing a boring old internet search on those terms will give you more than enough information.
Because I'm nice, though:
Active Shell and eVent are particularly breathable waterproof fabrics. Active Shell is by the folk who invented Gore Tex, and is a relatively recent design that was apparently made in response to eVent. If you're working hard, getting a highly breathable fabric is well worth it and it'll prevent your jacket immediately turning into a sauna. These fabrics are also used to make very lightweight garments that can pack down quite compactly... I have a lightweight eVent jacket that weighs 280g, half as much as my pro shell jacket (also a goretex fabric) and packs down to smaller the size of a coke can so its easy to always have it stuffed in a bag, 'just in case'.
Neoshell is another recent invention and also a highly breathable fabric, but it is more expensive and early jackets made from a lightweight version of the fabric have drawn some durability complaints. Possibly just from people who are expecting a super robust outfit rather than a high performance bit of gear that needed care, of course.
Soft shell is a term that's almost been made meaningless by marketing teams repurposing it to describe their products. I'd use it to refer to non-membrane fabrics that are weather resistant but not weather proof. Heavy rain will soak through it, and gale force winds might blow through it, but they tend to be comfier and vastly more breathable than membrane waterproof fabrics ("hard" shells) in most weather, most of the time. They're particularly good for colder, drier climates (like you might find in a ski resort) and cool dry weather when you're working hard. You can put your hard shell jacket on over the top in unpleasant weather; overlayering like this makes for a very versatile outfit that can be used year round.
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Fab! Really appreciate that. I had no idea about the variety and types of shell. Gives me far more to work on. And, yes, have been searching for more info online, so hope to understand this more very soon and make an informed choice. You could say that I would only choose something that I know will be long lasting and reliable (with care). With those basic criteria, price isn't too much of a bother, however, I'm not spendthrift and will not buy/ wear something to sport a brand name. It has to have great value, but I can already see that it's going be pretty subjective after certain basic necessities are met.
I am now actually tempted by both the soft and hard shell options for the purposes you've mentioned. Would be great to have something skiing as well in the winter. I had had only planned for warmer weather wear, thinking that's all that those thin looking materials are useful for managing, but having read a bit more, well….
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| Serriadh wrote: |
Oh, and wrist closures. Seriously. |
Hahah true, but some of them are also SO damn good! (Seriously  )
To the OP, personally if I'm investing in a good jacket that I intend to use a lot and for a longer period of time (<5 years) I like GoreTex; they have a pretty stringent testing process before allowing a brand to use their membranes so quality is guaranteed, and also an excellent warranty (in addition to the manufacturers) just in case something does go wrong.
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| Old Skool wrote: |
| Would be great to have something skiing as well in the winter. I had had only planned for warmer weather wear, thinking that's all that those thin looking materials are useful for managing, but having read a bit more, well…. |
My heaviest waterproofs only come out in warmer weather; they get used for things like windsurfing photography which involve standing in continuous heavy rain in 40mph winds for hours at a time, usually in >10 degree air temp. Its nice to have a beefy jacket with a nice hood to hide in, in that sort of weather!
Everywhere else gets lightweight stuff. For cold, wet winter weather, a basic waterproof over the top of a softshell will do you just fine, because what the raincoat doesn't stop the softshell will shrug off just fine. There are lots of threads here and elsewhere discussing softshells. I use the same lightweight eVent jacket for cycle commuting and hiking all year round, and skiing and hiking in the winter in combination with a softshell. It cost me £80 second hand, 3 and a half years ago. Because it spends most of its time in my bag (because I don't spend most of my time in the rain) it lasts a hell of a lot longer than anything that's worn constantly.
I'd get something a bit more robust if I were rock climbing as much as I used to. Abrasion kills lightweight waterproofs; stuff like goretex pro and pro shell is the way to go there.
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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Check the waterproof and breathability ratings, seams, cuffs, pockets, underarm zips, hood, etc. I got a Trespass 10000mm jacket for £80 last year. Very good even in heavy downpours. The only unanswerable for any jacket is durability.
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Personally I went for a 3-season jacket which I can wear with a warmer layer underneath in the winter as well. It saves me a bit of money and I already had the warmer mid layer....therefore, I am totally with the above comments in terms of flexibility in case you already have a softshell, fleece or similar. I stumbled over some fantastic deals on hardshells/rain jackets myself some short while back on bergzeit.co.uk and backcountry.com
All of the above mentioned materials and features can be found as far as I can recall.
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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Thanks all….i've spent the last several days becoming a hard/soft shell professor of sorts! Well….at least I thought I had, but I realised I've probably just got (made) too much time for this. I came across a manufacturer called Paramo who seem to do just the kind of 3 (maybe 4) season jacket you mention phlo,
In the meantime, I have bagged myself an easy going waterproof at 60% off in the summer sales from Mountain Hardwear, but this is really going to be for reasonable temperature walking, plus a great fleece from Haglofs (2/3 off).
I am fascinated by this Paramo make and would like to get any feedback from anyone who might be familiar with them, and whether their jackets might do the winter's snow season trick as well.
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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This thread ended up talking a lot about Paramo stuff: http://snowheads.com/ski-forum/viewtopic.php?t=110007&start=40#2513492
If you consider them to be a very weather resistant softshell, you may well like them. If you're expecting them to be a straight replacement for a hard shell, you may end up being disappointed. I think they make ideal ski clothing.
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| Serriadh wrote: |
This thread ended up talking a lot about Paramo stuff: http://snowheads.com/ski-forum/viewtopic.php?t=110007&start=40#2513492
If you consider them to be a very weather resistant softshell, you may well like them. If you're expecting them to be a straight replacement for a hard shell, you may end up being disappointed. I think they make ideal ski clothing. |
I had a Paramo smock 9cant remember the name) for years. I use it for Walking, in the cold you just need a T-shirt (they are warm). I used it to play football in (including in-goals on astroturf).
They are very soft. People that had vortex 3 layer pro jackets could not believe how comfortable they are. They are totally waterproof if you keep it proofed. They are pretty breathable. However, I think they look a bit 1990's.
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You know it makes sense.
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| glasgowcyclops wrote: |
| They are totally waterproof if you keep it proofed |
They can, and do, leak before a hard shell will in the same conditions. Even when they're brand new with a fancy factory DWR treatment, even after a fresh home reproofing. They'll leak when put under pressure, and they'll leak when they've finished wetting out. Wear stuff underneath that'll still be comfy when it gets damp! The important thing is, they'll still breathe, remain warm and comfortable and actively dry out even when they're soaked right through. That's something that hardshells and a lot of stretch-weave and membrane softshells can't do nearly as well.
| glasgowcyclops wrote: |
| However, I think they look a bit 1990's. |
The new Paramo stuff since the designers discovered 'shape' is significantly better.
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FAQ
