 Poster: A snowHead
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This may have been asked so many times on here so apologies if it has. Just looking for anyones opinion on which AT binding to get. I have never used AT bindings but looking to explore touring a bit during my second season in Banff at the end of the year. I am not looking to go on long tours, more the option to put on skins and explore a bit. Therefore I predominately want an AT binding that performs almost as well downhill as an alpine binding but with the option to whack on some skins now and then. Any opinions would be appreciated, cheers!
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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Dynafit bindings will be DIN certified this winter, and are now elastic. May change your mind a little
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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CH2O, have you skied the new dynafits? The one thing I hate about the current ones is the feel on hard snow, are they any better?
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clarky999, Nope, they're still running first production, but essentially the system is the same as the Beast, which works perfectly in this respect
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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I went for the Atomic Tracker / Guardian binding as I could get it half price at £160. I've done 1000m tours on them and although a little heavy they work fine for half day treks. But as a normal skiing binding, well that is where they shine. I can't notice any difference between these and the Marker Griffon alpine bindings I used to have on my skis. They are low profile under the boot and feel very secure. Eventually I will get some lighter skis with Dynafit bindings on purely for touring, but for blasting through cruddy and bumpy forest off piste then I much prefer a solid set up.
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You'll need to Register first of course.
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CH2O, They are on those Nordica Enforcer skis you sold me 6 or 7 years ago. I can't justify replacing them because they still ski like a dream 
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CH2O, does the beast really absorb some of the vibrations? My understanding was that it is the materials that do this not elasticity... does the new dynafit have any new veritcal movement at all?
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| dulcamara wrote: |
| CH2O, does the beast really absorb some of the vibrations?... |
Yes, & a lot more than just 'some'!
| dulcamara wrote: |
| My understanding was that it is the materials that do this not elasticity... does the new dynafit have any new veritcal movement at all? |
The elasticity is in the mechanisms not the materials. On my torque testing machine the Beast is as torsionally/laterally stiff as any top quality alpine binding.
The elasticity in the heel binding is spring loaded (like an alpine heel) but it is in all three directions, ie laterally, vertically & fore/aft. The toe bindings also have spring loaded lateral elasticity in the arms plus the rotating system that ensures that the toe pins stay in full engagement in the boot lugs. In the event of a crash the toe arms will open/release a split second after the boot is first released by the heel.
The Beast skis/feels exactly like a top quality alpine binding apart from it's a little bit slower to click in'n'out. It's just that the Beast (& the new Radical 2) have the adjustable lateral release function in the heel binding as opposed to in the toe - kinda like a Look Pivot heel but with lateral din as well.
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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Any pricing info on the new system ?
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Scarpa, Thanks for your comments. The only thing I worry about is the weight because thats what every review seems to pick up on. Do they feel noticeably heavier when you are skiing downhill because thats what i will be doing most??
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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I had a pair of Guardian 13's on my Atomic Bent Chetlers out in BC for 10 days this season, doing a few half day tours and didn't find the weight when touring to be all that much of a problem to be honest. The action of the mechanism is lovely and it felt really, really solid. On the way down, the weight isn't even remotely noticeable and they ski exactly the same as the Atomic FFG alpine bindings they replaced. I'm mega pleased with them! If you can get them for a discount price especially, buy a pair.
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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I think this new update on Tech bindings will be a major force in the future, Marker's version will be seen out and about very soon, if you haven't already.
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| AndAnotherThing.. wrote: |
| Any pricing info on the new system ? |
Dynafit 14/15 list prices are:
Radical 2 ST (4-10din/599g) £400-450 depending upon brake width. Brakes widths 80, 90, 105, 120 & 135mm.
Radical 2 FT (5-12din/634g) £480-510 depending upon brake width. Brakes widths 90, 105, 120 & 135mm.
Beast 14 (5-14din/795g) £450-480 depending upon brake width. Brakes widths 90, 105, 120 & 135mm.
Beast 16 (6-16din/940g) £650-670 depending upon brake width. Brakes widths 105, 120 & 135mm.
Brakes are not interchangeable but 'cam-in' well so choose wide & use QK inserts to share across differing ski widths. For example, I use 120mm brakes on skis of 120, 115, 108 & 88mm underfoot.
And deals can be done 
Last edited by So if you're just off somewhere snowy come back and post a snow report of your own and we'll all love you very much  on Sat 26-07-14 23:10; edited 1 time in total
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You know it makes sense.
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spyderjon, beast 14 jumps over 100 pounds for wider brakes?!
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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| NJCSSV wrote: |
| Scarpa, Thanks for your comments. The only thing I worry about is the weight because thats what every review seems to pick up on. Do they feel noticeably heavier when you are skiing downhill because thats what i will be doing most?? |
You really won't notice a thing. You are talking a couple of hundred grams per foot which compared with the weight of ski and boot is imperceptible. I don't even notice the weight when touring as I am usually not touring with the super fit brigade on light kit. I got a G3 mohair mix set of skins cheap from the States, coupled with a Dynafit One touring boot -I altered the sole to fit the alpine fitting of the bindings, so that keeps the weight down for touring days. For short hikes up I will even use my Redster 130 boots as they are much better for the downhill.
If I had the money I would go for the Beasts though, they look lovely. But I am skiing on a budget so I either use soft lightweight touring boots and accept that the downhill is just a way to get home, or use my piste boots to go up to access fresh off piste lines.
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Poster: A snowHead
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One advantage, doing 3 hour tours up on 5.75kg per foot doesn't half keep you fit 
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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One of the Lads that works with us used the Beast on some Super 7s, he now only uses it and Mercury Boots all the time.
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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| clarky999 wrote: |
| spyderjon, beast 14 jumps over 100 pounds for wider brakes?! |
Sorry no, it was a typo which I've corrected above.
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| CH2O wrote: |
| One of the Lads that works with us used the Beast on some Super 7s, he now only uses it and Mercury Boots all the time. |
+1 for Beasts & Mercurys all the time. Rad 2's all the time for most people is the future which is what I'd do if I didn't already have the Beasts as I'm only on 9 din.
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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spyderjon, Will be interested to see when you get your stock
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You'll need to Register first of course.
You'll need to Register first of course.
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spyderjon, sorry the question about materials wasn't to do with elasticity, question is what makes the beast absorb more vibrations when it's running flat
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dulcamara wrote:
My understanding was that it is the materials that do this not elasticity... does the new dynafit have any new veritcal movement at all?
The elasticity is in the mechanisms not the materials. On my torque testing machine the Beast is as torsionally/laterally stiff as any top quality alpine binding.
etc etc..
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The Sole boys know a bit about them (CH2O) - I recall a post on them before. The SH view at the time wasn't great...
http://snowheads.com/ski-forum/viewtopic.php?p=2452266
I think it's a really intriguing idea, though I would like to know if you *have* to change the toepiece at the top before you ski down, or is it ok to be lazy somedays and just ski down in the dynafit toe with everything locked down? I assume this is doable, but the Cast website is pants and I can't find the info anywhere.
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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If you tour for good snow you don't need the CAST system - even for cliffs. Just ask Hoji.
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fixx, if you're skiing to not fall and using touring boots that came with the inserts properly inserted, I guess you could *probably* get away with it, thoug you might have some seriously weird binding angles. Wouldn't want to do it with alpine boots with retro-fitted tech inserts though...
Apart from possibly comp level skiers hucking big to hardback, the Beast has probably made the idea redundant..?
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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Sooo, that Marker tech binding... http://www.wildsnow.com/13542/marker-tech-binding-pintech/
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Hi Lou,
We have made significant efforts to keep the lid on our development of a new ski touring binding. …So far our efforts of clandestine testing has been successful. Until the most recent “sighting” as communicated by Mr. L.R. from Austria on WildSnow.com the market is full of anticipation and rumors but no concrete evidence. …Our final step for testing had the misfortune of involving 3rd party testers and to make this test convenient and accommodating to fulfil test objectives we had to risk a public appearance. Yes, we have been “outed”!
Caught on the Stubai Glacier with the German TÜV Süd organization we were in the final stage of testing toward certification for ISO 13992. And yes, I am proud to announce that Marker is the first company to receive ISO certification for our new PinTech touring binding…
Best Regards,
Jonathan Wiant |
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You know it makes sense.
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I'm a 'front-side only' skier, so far. Is it wrong for me to want a pair of each of the bindings in this post? And obviously a different pair of skis for each binding!!
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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| fixx wrote: |
The Sole boys know a bit about them (CH2O) - I recall a post on them before. The SH view at the time wasn't great...
http://snowheads.com/ski-forum/viewtopic.php?p=2452266
I think it's a really intriguing idea, though I would like to know if you *have* to change the toepiece at the top before you ski down, or is it ok to be lazy somedays and just ski down in the dynafit toe with everything locked down? I assume this is doable, but the Cast website is pants and I can't find the info anywhere. |
i highly doubt that the heel would engage properly/at all but maybe someone who has seen the system in action can tell me i'm wrong
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Poster: A snowHead
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| fixx wrote: |
| I think it's a really intriguing idea, though I would like to know if you *have* to change the toepiece at the top before you ski down, or is it ok to be lazy somedays and just ski down in the dynafit toe with everything locked down? I assume this is doable, but the Cast website is pants and I can't find the info anywhere. |
The geometry of the binding is such that your boot heel will comfortably clear the binding heelpiece when you're in tour mode. If you remounted everything so you could click your boot into the dynafit toe and the alpine heel, you'd no longer be able to use the alpine toe. Furthermore, alpine bindings work with forward pressure to load the whole system up; dynafit toes don't really give you anything to push against so you won't really be able to engage the heel properly. Add to that a fixed, low-elasticity lateral release at the toe and chances are you'll pop out at your very first turn.
I don't think that CAST even approve of using their dynafit toe with a dynafit heel, if you wanted to do something like swap heelpieces out so you could have a purely dynafit day.
| DB wrote: |
| The radical 2.0 and beast 14 do look very nice .... |
Really? I was hoping for more, to be honest. They aren't re-using the Beast 16 toepiece, which suggests that it doesn't have much advantage over the new twisty radical toepiece. That's a bit of a disappointment from their engineering team; can they really not make anything better? The new twisty toe probably fixes a some prerelease issues (yay!) as will the rearward elasticity of the heelpiece spring, but as its an untried new touring binding part you'd have to be a bit keen or a bit daft to buy one til next season. I think they've already had a bunch of sprung heels out in the real world, so they're probably quite useable (and useful) this season.
Also, the pedant in me is grumpy at capture of previously meaningful terms like lateral elasticity (the toepiece rotates, not slides, and it isn't sprung. Not lateral elasticity) and forward pressure (there's still a tech heel gap. That means no forward pressure, only rearward elasticity) by marketing 
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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| Quote: |
The new twisty toe probably fixes a some prerelease issues (yay!)
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I'd read so much about this before skiing dynafits that I was pretty concerned, and took things very slowly at first, but in the end it was never ever a problem at all. In fact I've never released at all from them, let alone pre-released (skiing, skinning is a slightly different matter...)- even skiing fast with the toes unlocked. This is with old second hand TLT Speeds (whichever model is now re-badged as the Speed Turn) btw. OK I don't huck much, but I do ski fairly fast. Hoji seemed to ski just fine with them too; is pre-releasing really an issue for anyone other than giants?
For me the one and only problem with them is how  horrible they feel when skiing hard snow. OK, a little less ramp angle would be nice, but I can adjust to that.
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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Most dynafit pre-releases are user error and can be avoided with a little care.
Radical 2.0 looks interesting.
Though adding elasticity didn't really work out for Fritschi Vipec so might not be so cool in the real world ?
The problem Dynafit have is that their original products are so good...
Plus the key selling point is the minimalistic / light weight factor.
I am 6"3 / 14 stone and running a set of TLT speeds.
They are 300g per binding and burly / secure enough even for someone of my size.
So do I really need to upgrade when the new stuff is going to be heavier and basically do the same thing
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
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After I'd sorted out the right release values, my dynafit skiing has been pretty much prerelease free. I've had just two, one of which I'm pretty certain was caused by the ski decambering to the point where the boot hit the heelpiece and popped the toes out, firing me straight forwards (fixed by every newish tech binding that's not super lightweight, I think) and one that I'm pretty certain was a bit of boot twist and lateral heel movement a little bit more than the toes could absorb. In both cases, I think a more tolerant binding should have coped fine; I wasn't doing big jumps on soft skis or anything like that, and the lack of other problems suggests it wasn't a mount or boot issue. I never ski with the toes locked, incidentally.
But two prereleases in 3 seasons doesn't make me want to bin my current dynafiddles and get the next greatest thing that's only slightly, incrementally better.
Allegedly the Beast is much smoother on hard snow. I'll believe it when I get to try it, but the substantial expense and inconvenient boot modifications mean I'm in no rush to find out first hand
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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| Haggis_Trap wrote: |
Though adding elasticity didn't really work out for Fritschi Vipec so might not be so cool in the real world ? |
Aren't Fritschi's problems basically centered around their toe pin mounting issues? Even with a fixed toepiece, they'd still have had threads stripping.
| Haggis_Trap wrote: |
| The problem Dynafit have is that their original products are so good... |
Quite. See also, the "Speed Turn" binding.
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Last seasons Radical had the rearward travel as well.
I skied the Beast 16 all last season, great binding and the Radical 2 looks like it takes a good deal of the design whilst keeping things light. There is a definite difference in teeth rattling on hard pack.
Personally I suspect the Beast 16 is somewhat over engineered in the toe mostly so it looks right to people who ski burly AT bindings. The shape of the toe lever in particular.
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| Serriadh wrote: |
....
| DB wrote: |
| The radical 2.0 and beast 14 do look very nice.... |
Really? I was hoping for more, to be honest. They aren't re-using the Beast 16 toepiece, which suggests that it doesn't have much advantage over the new twisty radical toepiece. That's a bit of a disappointment from their engineering team; can they really not make anything better? The new twisty toe probably fixes a some prerelease issues (yay!) as will the rearward elasticity of the heelpiece spring, but as its an untried new touring binding part you'd have to be a bit keen or a bit daft to buy one til next season. I think they've already had a bunch of sprung heels out in the real world, so they're probably quite useable (and useful) this season. |
The Beast 14 toe is offered primarily as a weight saving option for those that don't need the full on burliness of the stronger 16 toe. The difference in the two din ranges makes no difference to the majority of people (6-16din v 5-14din) as they're not skiing on either 5, 15 or 16 din but lighter weight non super aggressive users can benefit from the lower weight/cost of the 14 version. Personally, with the launch of the Radical 2, I see the Beast 14 as a solution to a problem that doesn't really exist as, cost aside, users will either choose the Beast 16 or the Radical 2. I suppose that Dynafit offer it simply because they can as it costs them nothing to combine the Beast heel & the Radical 2 toe to create another weight/price offering. Very similar to the differences between the Marker Duke, Baron & Tour bindings.
The rearward elasticity/forward pressure system on the Radical ST & FT bindings was pre-production tested during the 12/13 season (I had a pair) & all of the 13/14 production of the Radical ST & FT bindings had/have it, it's just that the factory didn't advertise the fact - so it's therefore been out for well over a season & is fully tested!
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| Serriadh wrote: |
| ....Also, the pedant in me is grumpy at capture of previously meaningful terms like lateral elasticity (the toepiece rotates, not slides, and it isn't sprung. Not lateral elasticity).....( |
The Beast 16 toe not only rotates but it also has sprung lateral elasticity. The red line on the pic shows were the clamp arms separate from the base & the white arrow shows the direction of the lateral travel/elasticity. The pic is of my pre-production Beast toe but the production version is unchanged. The travel is just a few mm & the spring pressure is strong as it's the spring pressure that acts on the clamp arms but it's all that's needed to give the required shock dampening. This feature can be demonstrated by clamping the ski in a really secure vice & pushing/pulling hard on the boot toe across the line of the ski but if you check out the Beast 16 thread on TGR there's some close up video footage of this function in use taken by a guy with a camera strapped to the outside of his boot cuff & focused on the toe binding.
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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Not a word for the G3 Onyx?
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| spyderjon wrote: |
| The Beast 16 toe not only rotates but it also has sprung lateral elasticity. |
Yeah, but we were just talking about the Beast 14 and Radical 2, neither of which have that toepiece. I mentioned above that I was slightly surprised that the Beast 16 toe wasn't reused in the other models... if it were any better than the standard toes, why not use it, or build a new design based upon it?
On the new twisty Radical 2 toe, I don't see any additional sprung action that you don't already get with pretty much every other pin binding. The turntable means you can have more lateral heel displacement without risking a release from the toe, but given a lateral displacement of the toe of your boot the results will be pretty much the same as if you were clipped into a normal Radical 1 toe, because it basically is a normal Radical toe above the turntable mechanism.
| spyderjon wrote: |
| The rearward elasticity/forward pressure system on the Radical ST & FT bindings was pre-production tested during the 12/13 season (I had a pair) & all of the 13/14 production of the Radical ST & FT bindings had/have it, it's just that the factory didn't advertise the fact - so it's therefore been out for well over a season & is fully tested! |
Yes, I was aware of that (from my own post, "I think they've already had a bunch of sprung heels out in the real world, so they're probably quite useable (and useful) this season."). Its the new toe that's untested. I guess my writing wasn't as clear as it could have been!
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FAQ
Good point about the angles, hadn't even occurred to me!
