 Poster: A snowHead
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I don't think there is anything particularly special about women's only skiing and that to run a specific course implies that there is. Also, that I think the attitude of the chaps adds to the experience.
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Megamum, you are contradicting yourself. You are saying in one breath that there is nothing different or special about women's skiing AND that men have a different attitude. Both statements can't be true, though there is no contradiction in saying that you find men and women tend to have different attitudes and that you prefer a group with some men in because you welcome their different approach.
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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| Megamum wrote: |
| I think the attitude of the chaps adds to the experience. |
because you think it is different, on the whole, from women's attitudes!
edit: cross post with Pam.
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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I await a good flaming but here goes anyway...............I think some women, more so than men over think skiing way too much and evidence can found aplenty in this thread and others. Go take a lesson with whomever whenever and just enjoy it for what it is. If I was getting what I needed from a lesson I could not give two hoots if it was with women, men, boys, girls. Find the course that best suits you and crack on with it. Talk is cheap, it's the doing that counts. (dons helmet!) 
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
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| jirac18 wrote: |
| Find the course that best suits you and crack on with it |
That's what I - and other women considering whether a women's ski clinic would best suit them over a mixed one - are doing. No helmet required - it's not exactly off-the-wall, crazy advice 
I think there's plenty of evidence on various sections of this forum that some male contributors over think all sorts of things, not least their ski technique, so, again, no flame-proof helmet required just because you've spotted women doing it in a thread about women.
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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miranda, fair one but a bloke sticking his two penneth into a largely female debate kind of made me think I was likely to stir a hornets nest. I'll leave you all to it now I've said my bit...(any chance we could sort it all out with naked female mud wrestling!!?? )
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You'll need to Register first of course.
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jirac18, the thread was started by a man and has had some valid contributions from men so, really, you weren't being that 'gung-ho' chipping in, particularly in simply saying you wouldn't care whether you were skiing in a mixed group or all male, or whether you had a male or female teacher, which has already been said by others. If you cannot empathise with someone's perspective, it can often seem that they are 'over-thinking' - I'm sure some people will have felt that about some of your posts in the past too - that's just the way it goes on forums I guess.
Well, it is Page 3, so I guess it was about time someone felt the need to mention naked females - no mention of the L word, yet… well done 
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so I guess it was about time someone felt the need to mention naked females
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I blame the red wine for provoking me! you are quite right..................(by L word did you mean Lezzers or Ladies?) sorry in advance for poor taste
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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Anyway I thought I'd get in and lower the tone before some of the usual trolls did. Heck I didn't even realise the OP was a bloke
Actually maybe I should start a different thread on how alcohol affects posting behaviours.
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I too thought the OP was a lady. I must confess to being slightly stunned.
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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I too thought the OP was a lad
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I don't know whether the OP is a man or a woman but it scarcely matters, does it?
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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it matters not a jot, quite right.
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He does have flowery skis and wear a pink helmet if that helps take the stun out of it 
I suspect valais2 is an extremely keen and knowledgeable skier with a young daughter who has started skiing, so it's great that he's taking an interest in ways to encourage more female participation in sport at all ages, whether it turns out that there's a demand for women-specific ski clinics in Europe, or not.
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You know it makes sense.
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Women's only ski courses have been around for years - taught by women. Some are a few days in length, and offer a spa experience, good food and wine in the evenings and other social happenings along with the skiing, and others are simply day courses. The courses I know about have a variety of levels and instructors, and cover everything from hard charging off-piste adventures to cautious improving beginners.
There's also women's only course's run by our instructor's association.
I've not been bothered about attending any of the women's only courses - dates have never worked out for me - but I don't have a problem with a mixed lesson anyway. I have generally found that I am technically a better skier than most men in the clinics I attend.....I just ski slower! 
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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Can anyone reading this thread actually give us some feedback about their experience of a women's only course? There must be someone lurking… surely?
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Poster: A snowHead
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 that would put me right off....
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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pam w… and if it was specifically mentioned that the course was taking place in a resort with plenty of shopping available…
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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miranda, trouble is it would be difficult not to mention those things. Practically any marketing bumf about any ski resorts mention the local facilities and amenities, so would a women's course be any different?
Apologies for likening it to cycling again.... but as a bloke I got wound up by the Cycletta ladies cycle rides (£28 for 20k!) which advertised a pamper zone following the rides which includes a hair salon as a "helmet hair remedy". Open gender events you get a cereal bar and a drink if you are lucky!
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
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hammerite, if you're trying to sell a resort, you might want to mention it's got spas and shops - as yet I've not seen any mention of a 'spa experience' or shopping in any of the specific course bumf I've been looking at for early next season. A designated pamper zone for women to deal with "helmet hair" would also put me right off.
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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Miranda speaks the truth ....
Yep, I am still a bloke. I checked last time this came up and made sure.
Yep, I have a pink POC receptor bug, worn in poor viz and off piste so that my warm alive body can be spotted before it becomes a cold dead body. However, seldom worn on piste because my eight year old son refuses to ski with me when I wear it. Ie I am not man enough to wear pink.
Yep, I have a pair of flowery skis since the mai tais are the same ski as the suspects and I got them massively discounted since they were long for a woman.
And yep I have followed lynsey dyers' career with interest as well as the late great Sarah Burke, and tried to encourage more women into climbing and to higher altitudes in the alps, and I am interested in whether women only clinics might work - and the discussion on this thread has been really helpful re mixed groups, priorities, coaches, structure etc.
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You'll need to Register first of course.
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Is it telling that a woman only course was suggested by a chap?
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No, I don't think so.
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miranda, yes, but if selling the course as an option for a holiday it might be useful to mention the resort and what is available. It wouldn't be a key selling point, but worth mentioning in any information.
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pam w, thanks pam, no it's not telling that I am looking at whether SMS should offer women only courses - I've had a lot of experience of coaching women who have previously been put off skiing because of poor group dynamic, and young girls being intimidated by boys' attitudes. After a bit I will have a think about structure and content and then post it.
In response to Hammerite (great handle) the provision would be in around crans montana which now has a very good park and excellent access to extensive off piste (including the huge faverges area at the back of mt bonvin) it could include excursions to the hidden secrets of the val d'anniviers and into the 4 valleys from. Nendaz) ) - SMS has a very good range of instructors and uiagm guides, of both sexes, including carole, whose picture festoons the resorts lift passes, as she looks wistfully at the 4000m peaks on the other side of the valley...and my own spa experience is getting in the jeep and soaking in the thermal baths at leukerbad, outside in the dark, as the snow falls....excellent after a long day up the hill.....
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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valais2, hmmm, a way of getting back to C-s-Sierre. Now you're talking!
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valais2, presumably any market research would include other forums / previous clients etc.
From what I have read, it seems that those with the most negative take on the women's only course's already have an established group / routine for skiing e.g. Snowheads bashes
There seem to be a fair few who are open to the idea that a women's only course (with male interaction allowed after hours if desired...) may be of interest depending on pretty obvious criteria of; suitable dates, course content, price, location etc.
Again, horses for courses (or women in this case ) doesn't mean you will never do a mixed course again, doesn't mean you are looking for any kind of feminist environment - just to ski in a group where you have some fun and learn a bit.
I definitely think there is a place for these courses. I also think the motivation of women choosing to go on these courses doesn't need to be so over thought.
Clearly from an economic perspective the OP needs to asses the demand, but questioning the rights and wrongs of the existence of these courses seems extreme.
Is it right that men go off on 'lads weekends'? They will presumably ski with their 'lad' friends, quite likely (but for the sake of argument perhaps not exclusively ) in single sex groups. They may, or may not, choose to socialise with people of either the same or different sex later in the day...
Where is the problem?
They probably go home and plan family ski trips for the next time away - no problem.
This is just another option for people to meet like minded skiers of similar ability. As someone who has travelled solo on a group course, I do think this is an interesting option.
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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Pedantica, .... I did try to encourage you to come back this season just gone, maybe I can put something together to get you out in 2014-15....off piste, avalanche training, fat lunches at sami's new chetzeron restaurant?.....or just the great end of day buzz at Julian's bar at montana bottom station....
Last edited by snowHeads are a friendly bunch. on Sun 20-04-14 20:04; edited 1 time in total
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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Homey, there is no problem in any of this. The bottom line is that if there's a market (whatever the punters' motives) then it's worth doing.
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valais2, oh-h-hhhh. I'll ski with marmots, giraffes, wimmin, you name it!
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You know it makes sense.
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I must confess that I think of all my trips with my male and female ski buddies as a lads trip. Even when MrHL us on the same trip he is rarely to be found skiing with the group.
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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| Pedantica wrote: |
| Homey, there is no problem in any of this. The bottom line is that if there's a market (whatever the punters' motives) then it's worth doing. |
Absolutely agree.
The OP was wanting to asses the market, but the thread seemed to have evolved into more of a debate of 'the punters motives'.
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Poster: A snowHead
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Homey, I've potentially even been hooked myself, by the unexpected bonus of returning to one of the locations of my mis-spent youth!
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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As a residential course no - skiing is a holiday and I prefer to take it with my husband and a bunch of our friends and even if not, would prefer a mixed environment off the slopes. Dedicated lessons/school yes possibly. I seem to be stuck either choosing a slightly-lower group where I am technically a bit ahead and don't end up picking up much. Or in the 'right' group in terms of exercises on the piste, but woefully outgunned in terms of experience/fitness/willingness to give it a go on the steepest and deepest and thus giving up - and am now in a vicious cycle where I do less of the scarier stuff, so get better on-normal-piste, while not progressing at all trickier slopes and the gap between my red/easy black apparent ability and skills on the nasty black/offpiste gets ever wider.
I have a suspicion that on a 'black run' course aimed at ladies only I might find more of my competent-but-don't-do-it-often-enough peers, and less done-a-few-weeks-and-can-hang-in-there optimists. I'd at least be willing to give it a try as I've tried a few courses and yet to find the right mix and I prefer small groups to full privates.
It wouldn't be enough to draw me to a resort , but if on offer it might swing my choice from school a to school b within a resort.
aj xx
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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a.j.,
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I have a suspicion that on a 'black run' course aimed at ladies only I might find more of my competent-but-don't-do-it-often-enough peers, and less done-a-few-weeks-and-can-hang-in-there optimists.
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My instinct is to agree with you on that.
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
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a.j., Pedantica, ...well this sort of dedicated provision is never going to be a great money-spinner for an independent school such as Swiss Mountain Sports since it's more a question of a contribution to skiing than profit-making - it could be a low budget thing running out of a mountain cabin, a non-residential option, or very upmarket - will continue to think...
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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You'll need to Register first of course.
You'll need to Register first of course.
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valais2, slum it in Crans? Naaah!
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miranda, spot on...it's an edgy subject - there are clear disparities in the numbers men and women participating in certain forms of skiing and I think it is important to think this through for the sport. It's been a topic in mountaineering and climbing for a long time and much has been done there to open up climbing culture and practice, to good effect. There's a new generation of amazing female climbers coming through. Thinking of the recent winter games, the female athletes from Britain were very impressive, and it does feel as though female participation in park and off piste could be opened up, as well as support to 'women returners'. On this last group my own partner really struggled after having had two kids and needed a lot if support to get back to where she'd been before.
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Pedantica, ....agreed it's not easy to feel downmarket in crans, but it's important for Brits to know that Switzerland need not be punitive in cost - many self catering chalets are actually quite cheap in the surrounding villages - bit like it being far cheaper to get accommodation in bourg st Maurice and then get the funicular up to les arcs - and the hotels are doing excellent off peak deals. But yes if I you need style then stay in the par du ours or up at chetzeron when the new rooms open there - the front rooms look across to mt blanc....nice....
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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| Homey wrote: |
| (with male interaction allowed after hours if desired...) |
Would this be provided by the course organisers as well 
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lynseyf, ...with two kids now skiing the pants off me during the day, exhausting excursions draining the energy from me and up to ten pairs of rock-damaged skis to repair and prep, evenings tend to consist of falling asleep on the sofa in front of the log fire and then a dreamy walk upstairs to lapse into the sleep of the dead....
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FAQ
