Poster: A snowHead
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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allanm
Can not speak first hand now as just starting back after over 15yrs plus ( maybe best part of 20yrs) but back when I was skiing every week there were some first rate ASSI and BASI instructors on dry slopes just because they are not working in a "real" ski resort does not imply mediocre some have other jobs that may or may not pay a lot better than being an instructor or other commitments that exclude them from working full time abroad.
And sorry your first sentence is totaly wrong a proffesional skier can improve never mind a half decent one ( admittedly not as quickly as an intermediate would).
Yes you can learn quicker in resort but how many can afford to jet off every weekend ?
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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speed098, You, and others are kidding yourselves, and others. You can't teach / learn practical aspects of skiing on a dry slope or snowdome. The terrain simply isn't there. 'Freestyle' as in kickers etc,perhaps, but not 'jumps' - they don't exist in England... AFAIK?
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allanm
You can practice technique or get coaching/instruction if you can not do the drills yourself, you improve muscle memory from repetition this forms part of the basic skill sets an expert skier has, those that on the "whats my level" thread that helps them recover when they make a mistake/ get thrown out etc yet most times do not wipe out.
Other sports use this system very very effectively one being Archery good/top archers will if needed practice indoors or even in a garage at very short range ( well under 20m ) yet the Olympic distance is 70m needing completely diff sight markings but the repetiton helps make every release as close as possible to the last and to the next to improve accuracy.
Skiing like most sports is the same and dryslopes/indoor serve a purpose that should not be underrated. But as I have said just because some like them, some tolerate them does not mean they are for everyone, some just plain hate them but that does not mean you can't improve.
If I am kidding myself then 10yrs plus on them and most weeks skiing 30hours or more then skiing any run on piste no matter what the conditions and skiing extreme steeps off piste well not sure how to answer that, though I do admit shallow gradiant offpiste was not my thing but think that probably came down to just being far too aggressive.
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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allanm, You are entitled to your opinion but anyone who has taught on dry slopes or indoors will have had trainees who were at advanced standard the first time they skied on snow outdoors.
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speed098, You're reference to Archery is at best miss conceived. The terrain for (target) archery is the same. It's.. erm flat. There is little difference i shooting at 20M as 90M (which was the main olympic distance when I was involved). As an aside I was in the olympic squad for archery many years back. Shooting at less than 15 meters is useless - for many reasons.
rjs wrote: |
allanm, You are entitled to your opinion but anyone who has taught on dry slopes or indoors will have had trainees who were at advanced standard the first time they skied on snow outdoors. |
Look at the opening post. I learned on a dry slope before I went out. The question is 'is it worth returning'.
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The answer to your question allanm is for most if not all yes it is worth returning the second question is will they spend the time practicing to improve etc or just slide down for an hour ? If the latter then probably not worth bothering try and spend the money on a 10 day trip rather than 7 days, because they will be more motivated in a resort.
Re Archery
Indoors is not the same as outdoors firstly wind ! secondly variable temp that at 70m has some effect but at 90 has even more also indoors 28-30lb draw weight is sufficient but at 90m you need just over 40lb on a 26inch riser. But the point I was making is the repetition not the conditions because repetition is a valuable tool which as an archer yourself you will understand is key to success after all we all got taught pretty much one style of release ( in recurve not talking compound or any of the other bow styles) but then it change as it slowly becomes personal to you. ( Ukranian archer anchors his thumb behind his neck as one example).
Most on here if the other thread re level is accurate would benefit from dryslpoe or indoor skiing to say otherwise to a skier upto level 7 is only kidding them will stop them from gaining a chance to improve to a higher level and enjoy this sport even more. Those above level 7 will still gain a benefit but at a slower level but I can gurantee you get two identical level 8 skiers on the first of April skier one next put ski's on 1st Feb when they go on holiday with skier two. Skier two goes to mixture of dry/indoor slopes for a couple hours a week, week in week out spends an hour a month getting coaching and puts the effort in you will see a marked diff in the skiing ability of skier two over skier one.
If it does not suit you fine but please don't tell others they would be kidding themselves and others when they are not and are speaking from years of first hand experiance.
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allanm wrote: |
speed098, You, and others are kidding yourselves, and others. You can't teach / learn practical aspects of skiing on a dry slope or snowdome.. |
I disagree completely.
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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As do I.
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Nike Chosen Series - 01 UK Hemel Hempstead from Nike Action http://vimeo.com/33977674
Allanm, not sure where you draw the line between kickers and jumps. Yes the above is exceptional but Hemel usually has a kicker that is more than good enough to learn a few things on and there are some good dryslope kickers in the UK - Norwich for example.
Sure the features aren't always out and it's not necessarily on the same scale that you get out on the mountains but there are good freestyle facilities in the UK that are available year round. If freestyle isn't your thing then there is racing, telemark etc.
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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At my stage, of still improving my basic technique, I know beyond doubt that what I learned and developed inside last year improved my skiing immeasurably vs. the 10 hours I spent under instruction April 2013. I have previously spent my cash on lessons on a real mountain, but after the improvements I managed to make last summer I have 'seen the light' and this year intend to visit an indoor dome as much as I can to improve even more. In fact I find it concentrates the mind to ski indoors - it's frequently busy, skiing width can be limited by furniture and areas being roped off and I have to be in control!! I also know that I'm there to practice - there isn't the 'follow the group around the mountain' mentality - if I go there it is to learn and practise and no other reason. I couldn't do that without instructors willing to teach there and help.
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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kitenski wrote: |
allanm wrote: |
speed098, You, and others are kidding yourselves, and others. You can't teach / learn practical aspects of skiing on a dry slope or snowdome.. |
I disagree completely. |
So be it, we all have different experiences and opinions. I've spent a small fortune on lessons in France over the years and had a couple of lessons at a snowdome over here. I didn't feel the lessons at the snowdome improved my sking at all..........
The exception is 'freestyle' where even at Aldershot on dendex I got to grips with basic moves and skiing switch. OK point taken, humble pie and all that.
I'd still say that in general, returning once or twice to a snowdome ( and what this thread is about) will not really be worth it, or shall we say 'value for money' - especially if traveling and 'serious' expense is involved..
Having said that, there are the 'fun' and social aspects to consider though - the reason I went from time to time (although not lately I have to admit)
speed098, I shot 90M (and everything else) with 38LBs (recurve). Wouldn't have dreamed of changing limbs to shoot a lesser distance. Perhaps if I had, I'd have made the games, not just the squad (;>)
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You know it makes sense.
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allanm, it sounds like it is horses for courses. Maybe the indoor slope doesn't present you with a challenge at your level of skiing, but based on my own personal experience I think they have a lot to offer skiers at my own level. I can't speak for more competent skiers, but I wouldn't want this thread to put off someone at my level (around an IOS 6 approaching a 7) from trying the experience as I am sure it has something to offer.
FWIW I'm going to CFe this Saturday morning to do some practice.
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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Megamum wrote: |
Maybe the indoor slope doesn't present you with a challenge at your level of skiing, but based on my own personal experience I think they have a lot to offer skiers at my own level. |
A couple of years ago Scott and I brought in an ex-Olympian skier and very well regarded ski coach to run some professional development courses for us. The course I did with him was extremely challenging, very technical and I learnt a great deal about my skiing (as well as my coaching abilities). Overall it was the toughest skiing I think I did that year, despite the fact it took place on a summer's day on a short, gentle indoor slope at Hemel. Plenty of ways to challenge and develop strong skiers on artificial slopes if you are imaginative enough and the skier wants to use their time to train and improve.
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Poster: A snowHead
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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^^ Lack of imagination and "will". That be me then. Common knowledge on here I think.
TBF rob@rar's post is not exactly related to 'will driving to a snowdome for few runs down the hill in the summer make me a better skier' which is basically what the OP was.
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
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allanm, it's a shame you haven't had good experiences at local slopes, but if you don't get on with them you're right to do what works for you.
I'm living proof however that others can learn practical aspects of skiing on dry slopes and snow domes. Over the last 2-3 years I've had a couple of hundred hours tuition at dry slopes and in the last year around 50 hours in a snow dome, plus practice time. The tuition has all been of a very high standard with L3 and L4 coaches and trainers. This has completely transformed my skiing from average holiday intermediate who thought they knew how to ski to now being ready to take my BASI L2 and realising there's a lot still to learn - not a pinnacle by any means, and plenty of room for further work, but a big improvement.
The dry slope tuition has cost me a few pounds an hour once I factor in the travel costs (it is effectively subsidised as instructor training); the snow dome a little more - probably more like 10 pounds per hour.
To achieve the same improvement by taking lessons on a real mountain would have cost a lot more. OK, it would have probably been a lot more fun - I've also had a great time with lessons in the Alps and made similar improvements through them - but other commitments mean I just couldn't take that sort of time off to work on skiing. So for me being able to use local slopes is both time and money efficient.
The final point is that because I'm spending a few hours each week with the same instructors we develop a coaching relationship rather than it being one-off instruction. This to me is the key to a lot of my improvement - the coach knows my strengths and weaknesses, my learning style, my goals and background, can plan sessions in advance, look at the longer term improvement, and so on. This makes each hour spent with them far more productive for me than a hour with a one-off instructor in a resort.
I'm not trying to make out that this approach would work for everyone, and especially not saying it should work for you, but claiming that the very real improvement some of the rest of us are making is delusional is not right either!
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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You'll need to Register first of course.
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sarah, Phew!!!
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kieranm,
Quote: |
The final point is that because I'm spending a few hours each week with the same instructors we develop a coaching relationship rather than it being one-off instruction. This to me is the key to a lot of my improvement - the coach knows my strengths and weaknesses, my learning style, my goals and background, can plan sessions in advance, look at the longer term improvement, and so on. This makes each hour spent with them far more productive for me than a hour with a one-off instructor in a resort.
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^^^^Def. this - very difficult to replicate for a holiday skier like me
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Megamum wrote: |
kieranm,
Quote: |
The final point is that because I'm spending a few hours each week with the same instructors we develop a coaching relationship rather than it being one-off instruction. This to me is the key to a lot of my improvement - the coach knows my strengths and weaknesses, my learning style, my goals and background, can plan sessions in advance, look at the longer term improvement, and so on. This makes each hour spent with them far more productive for me than a hour with a one-off instructor in a resort.
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^^^^Def. this - very difficult to replicate for a holiday skier like me |
+1
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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Megamum wrote: |
kieranm,
Quote: |
The final point is that because I'm spending a few hours each week with the same instructors we develop a coaching relationship rather than it being one-off instruction. This to me is the key to a lot of my improvement - the coach knows my strengths and weaknesses, my learning style, my goals and background, can plan sessions in advance, look at the longer term improvement, and so on. This makes each hour spent with them far more productive for me than a hour with a one-off instructor in a resort.
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^^^^Def. this - very difficult to replicate for a holiday skier like me |
I keep going back to the same place now on holiday and ski with the same two or three instructors each time. Has made a massive difference to me.
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sarah, consistency has a huge amount going for it. You are lucky to get the same instructors on holiday, but for me a holiday can only be once a year (maybe you get there more often than that), and it is often said that skiing once a year is not enough to improve quickly. With a snowdome at least I can keep going throughout the summer and have not forgotten 90% of what I learned the previous year when I go again (which I think is what happens otherwise!).
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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Megamum, yes, you're right and I am lucky enough to get away 2/3 times per season at the moment. But even if it was just once I think if you find an instructor who works well for you then you could book ahead and request the same one each year. I agree about the dome and if you can get that consistency with IO that's great.
Why can't IO come oop North too?
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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I have never set foot inside a fridge, never mind skied one. Also there is very little chance of me ever doing so as the nearest one is 4hrs away compared to 2 or 3 of the Scottish resorts which are about an hour away. This is similar to those who are from the south never making it up to Scotland when the alps are as close. Travelling distance, and that dreaded wind, not to mention the hostile locals, who jump queues and capture those who come from south of the Watford Gap with a view to sticking them in a giant wickerman and rendering them down to fat for deep frying our mars bars... but I digress.
I dont know whether or not I would enjoy it.
Although at £10-20 per hour (i presume this must include equipment hire costs) to ski a 160-200m green/blue slope, it all seems a bit expensive.
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dode, The thread title does contain the word "summer".
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You know it makes sense.
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rjs, that only lasts 2 weeks....
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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dode, yes if you have a skiable mountain available you'd be nuts to go further to get to the smaller more expensive slope. That's not the position that many of us are in though sadly, especially here in East Anglia.
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Poster: A snowHead
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Quote: |
especially here in East Anglia.
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kieranm, +1 'tis a tad flat around here isn't it?
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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For everyone's info I'm an IOS 6-7 (same as Megamum) so I have definitely got things I could work on (balance being the main thing and a complete inability to ski anything like a bump without panicking, sitting back and falling over). I'll definitely be hitting Ponty dry slope next autumn. May give the fridge a try on the basis that I have never done it before - I will not be expecting it to be a mountain. May even go for a lesson.
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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I would think that skiing during the summer would be a great idea! - if you don't fanci a fridge why not try a glacier and incorporate it into your summer holiday? you can ski, bike, walk, luge, swim, raft, play golf and many many more activities here in Les Deux Alpes in the summer!
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Summer skiing? That's where it goes from ice to slush without ever being anything nice in between.
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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As a professional ski instructor i advise people to keep skiing over the summer! It doesn't matter where, but it's good to keep your skiing legs up and it saves you some time in the beginning of your holiday. You can start of where you finished and hopefully progress quicker!
Have fun!!
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OwenM wrote: |
Summer skiing? That's where it goes from ice to slush without ever being anything nice in between. |
Perfect for improving your technique learning to adapt to the conditions.
tiptopski
So true I always used to recommend that people kept skiing all year but equally to take the first run or two when on holiday easy ( this was pre fridge though ).
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Snowdomes certainly worth a visit. Comment from a parent was their kids have learnt more from a holiday course than a weeks ski school in France. Ideal for beginners and if you are doing some techincal work/drills can certainly help improve the fundamentals at all levels. it can be restrictive though. There are good conditions to be had on the glaciers from October to May and skiing on a mix from hard pack to slush is good for the technique. Personally like to have a break over the summer so I'm raring to go come October but would definitely go to a snowdome to focus on technique and keep the ski legs goings if had the opportunity as the basics of skiing don't change just becasue you are indoors.
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