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Resorts asked to remeasure piste lengths

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Resorts asked to remeasure piste lengths

 Poster: A snowHead
Poster: A snowHead
The International Federation of Lift Operators (FIANET) has called for a new standard for measuring the length of ski runs in resorts. This comes after a report from a German cartographer claiming that several European ski resorts have exaggerated the total cumulated length of their pistes by an average of 34%. Resorts will have to remeasure pistes to qualify for a FIANET certified stamp of approval....For more, see: http://www.ledauphine.com/france-monde/2013/10/14/une-norme-internationale-pour-mesurer-les-pistes-de-ski
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 Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Does it really matter??
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 Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
I noticed Courmayeur's website recently changed from stating 100km of piste to 100km including off-piste, 39km piste.
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emwmarine, clearly it matters enough for them to think that lying about it is worthwhile. If you were trying to decide whether to go to resort A or resort B which were pretty much equal in all respects except that resort A had 200km of runs while resort B had 25km, and the lift prices were €210 and €190 respectively, would it make any difference to you?

That's a rhetorical question really - if you say you couldn't care less, you're either mad or a very hesitant skier who couldn't cover 25km in a week, never mind in a day like everyone else.
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 Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
ousekjarr, that's a bit harsh, not every one is trying to cover every piste, some people might be on holiday , or with kids.
Many people I meet on ski holidays who talk a good show about mileage are the pinnacle of arseholedom.
Each to their own.
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Filthyphil30k, but his point is still valid: if it matters enough to lie about it, it matters enough to ask them to get it right.
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 Then you can post your own questions or snow reports...
Then you can post your own questions or snow reports...
Filthyphil30k wrote:
ousekjarr,
Many people I meet on ski holidays who talk a good show about mileage are the pinnacle of arseholedom.
Each to their own.


On the evidence of this thread, you are clearly very insightful. chapeau.
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 After all it is free Go on u know u want to!
After all it is free Go on u know u want to!
Laughing
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 You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
Arctic Roll wrote:
Filthyphil30k, but his point is still valid: if it matters enough to lie about it, it matters enough to ask them to get it right.


Yes, they should get it right. I await piste lawyers showing you can claim back old ski passes where you have been missold 600 km instead of 500 km etc.

I have just made the choice of not buying a 3 valley pass for my holiday this year as I will not get to use much if it,
I will make do with the 200km and maybe do some runs twice.

Holiday skier vs ski god.
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How do you measure a wide open bowl, versus the similar area of terrain with several pistes cut through trees? It's not an exact science.
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 snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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Filthyphil30k, who cares if it is 200km or 210?

But 100 reduced to 39? That's a pretty major readjustment...

The same thing happens with snow depths and conditions, and I'm awkward enough to object to being told a barefaced lie. If it doesn't matter to you, fair enough - perhaps you'd like to buy some second hand skis I have for sale, 2 weeks old and only ever used for 10 minutes, at a 10% discount to new price? (Actually, they're 6 years old, had 30 days per year use in rocky terrain, and the RRP was only ever charged in one Vernier shop for two days - but hey, it doesn't matter, right?)
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 And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
I agree to an extent, thought you were assuptive and over the top in your response.

I have always assumed they were a guide, and a bit if willy waving by resorts.
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So if you're just off somewhere snowy come back and post a snow report of your own and we'll all love you very much
Filthyphil30k, fully agree again. To be honest as long as there is more than 10cm of snow on a piste that is enough. What matters more than depth is ambient temperatures and condition of the snow and even how recently there was the last sprinkle.
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 You know it makes sense.
You know it makes sense.
emwmarine, 10 cm of snow is not enough to ski on even on a grass field, because after the first skier goes over it there will be great big bare patches, the snow cover required to make a piste ski-able varies considerably mainly dependent on the ground conditions beneath the snow, 30cm of snow cover on grassy fields is fine but you may need a meter or more if on rocks unless you like trashing skis on a daily basis.

The US resorts have for years measured their ski areas by acreage rather than km of piste saying that the in bound area is fully ski-able, this is due to most of their resorts having considerably shorter pistes than can be found in Europe.

Pistes often change slightly year on year but for a resort to change from 100km of runs to 39km of pistes is important because many skiers are only insured whilst on piste
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 Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Quote:

How do you measure a wide open bowl, versus the similar area of terrain with several pistes cut through trees? It's not an exact science.

Quote:


The International Federation of Lift Operators (FIANET) has called for a new standard for measuring the length of ski runs in resorts.


I don't know,but it seems to me they're just trying to standardise it, so how ever you measure it, it's the same Confused
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 Poster: A snowHead
Poster: A snowHead
Which makes a lot of sense, counting the same stretch of piste 2 or 3 times because 3 runs share it seems fairly common
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 Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Quote:

The US resorts have for years measured their ski areas by acreage rather than km of piste saying that the in bound area is fully ski-able, this is due to most of their resorts having considerably shorter pistes than can be found in Europe.

While US and some other countries measure their ski areas by acreage (or hectares) it has nothing to do with any comparison to european resorts. As they do not have pistes in the european sense any length measurement would be meaningless and as they do not have the on piste/off piste insurance issues you can ski the whole area in relative safety. So a measurement of area actually gives a really good guide to the amount of skiing available.
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 Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
D G Orf, I'd say that 10cm of compacted snow (so piste bashed from whatever to result in 10cm piste depth) would be fine to ski on.
So... is the snow depth that of a compacted piste?
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I think a standardized way of assessing quantity of skiable piste is useful to the consumer. Clearly it does not tell you everything about a resort but many people have some idea of the amount of available piste to them on a holiday and being able to compare figures with resorts they know is useful.
I have never been to Courmayeur but could imagine getting a bit pissed off if the resort had a third as much piste as other resorts I had skied but were claiming the same amount.
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 Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
But i thought they were all lying?
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blahblahblah wrote:
But i thought they were all lying?

The problems seem to be partly that they are not all lying but mainly that their lies are non standardized, if there lies were the same relative to each other it would not really matter.
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 Then you can post your own questions or snow reports...
Then you can post your own questions or snow reports...
I think we should call for an ISO standard for lies.
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 After all it is free Go on u know u want to!
After all it is free Go on u know u want to!
In fairness to Courmayeur, it is a small pisted ski area but it is very varied and well maintained, holds far more interest than kilometre after kilometre of identical motorway piste. I think a lot of people go there for the off-piste too and general resort kudos/charm.
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queen bodecia, I agree that amount of skiable poste is hardly the most important statistic a resort produces and have had a very enjoyable week in Bonneval length of piste 25km. But to a lot of people having a certain minimum length of piste whatever that is is important so that they feel they are not continuously skiing the same runs for a week.
However pleasant Courmayeurs skiing is and it is somewhere on my to do list claiming 3x the length of ski area than you actually have when some resorts are accurate in what they claim is lying to your customers or potential customers. People who had been to a resort claiming a near legitimate 100km or so (which is about what Chamonix claim) and then book a holiday thinking they are getting a similar amount of piste skiing have a legitimate grievance.
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Well, may be one should measure in square meters ( or over ther square yards) instead om km (there you do not use yards anymore? Toofy Grin Little Angel
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 snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
Area is OK as a measure but I'm not likely to cover every square metre of a piste, I'm more interested in its length than its width.
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 And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
FenlandSkier wrote:
I'm more interested in its length than its width.


Keep that smut in the après zone please.
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 So if you're just off somewhere snowy come back and post a snow report of your own and we'll all love you very much
So if you're just off somewhere snowy come back and post a snow report of your own and we'll all love you very much
I thought the Stubai Glacier website page was interesting - http://www.stubaier-gletscher.com/eng/Winter/Ski-Area/Lifts-Pistes
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 You know it makes sense.
You know it makes sense.
Filthyphil30k wrote:

Many people I meet on ski holidays who talk a good show about mileage are the pinnacle of arseholedom.
Each to their own.


Bout right
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 Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
flangesax, most snow depths (so far as I can determine) are taken at sheltered locations not on the piste so would only be compacted by their own weight, 10cm of piste bashed snow would indeed be fine to ski on, but 10cm of fluffy powder will be gone after a few skiers especially on a grass slope
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