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Taking kids out of school - just check the rules first

 Poster: A snowHead
Poster: A snowHead
I just tell the head master the children are going on a cultural trip to see how other children live , and then we go.
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 Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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Timberwolf wrote:
I haven't read the whole thread Embarassed

My situation :

2 boys in school, 1 in Yr 3, 1 in Yr 7. Both have excellent attendance records, and both are above average in terms of ability.

I have booked a family holiday departing early on Thu 12 Feb - so the boys will miss 2 days of school. What should I do ? Just lie, and call in sick ? or confess to the school ? My problems are:

1) I don't want to ask the boys no keep schtum about their holiday, therefore everyone at school will know that they're going away, kind of making the 'call in sick' option a bit of a non-starter.

2) I'm a Governor at the Yr 3 child's school, and so need to do the 'right' thing.

3) I don't want to put either of the Heads in a difficult position by informing them that the boys won't be there and expecting them not to 'report' me.

Perhaps the simple answer is that I shouldn't have booked a holiday which means that the boys will miss school, but in financial terms, the flights on the Thursday were £750 whereas flights on the Sat would have been £2400.

Any advice Snowheads massive ?


If I were in your circumstances, I Would put in a request for the absence citing it is for sports training. They'll either say yes or no, but you can't be accused of lying that way and I think that is still permissible and it certainly has a better chance of approval than a "family holiday" request will.
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 Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
I would absolutely definitely NOT lie or tell kids to lie about being sick - I think that's really wrong (as opposed to taking a family holiday, which isn't).

But really, for two days (or in the case of almost all LEAs, 5 days) there shouldn't be a problem.
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agreed!

However, is it not time for you british to take back YOUR schools? Puzzled


Happy we did not have such problems here, when the children were small.
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Interestingly enough our high school has not yet put one parent forward for a fine - they said they have resolved any issues through using other methods.

I've booked Disney for Easter and the kids will miss four days of school as the difference in cost was thousand + . I will tell the teachers the truth and hope for the best.
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Until the point where schools visit holiday providers to seek how much a family saves, and then fines the family this amount or more, families will continue to take their children out of primary school. At secondary school very few families take holiday in term time, intelligent parents realise the importance of good education. Year 10 and 11 work is vital and this the reason why the government has set the expected attendance level to be a minimum of 95%
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1969jma, Every year in school is vital for kids in school. But attendance is not the most vital factor - it is much more important that they like to go to school, and get motivated there. Are you living in the wrong World? The real world has compromises, and choisses. Some people choose to sail around the world in a boot with there kids? Do your really think in such punishment? Puzzled

Children can learn to compensate - my daughter new she had to work hard at home to catch up with the week she was not in school in order to go skiing - and so she did. A happy child is much easier to motivate then a punished child. And your economical punishment to the parents of course is a punishment to the child.

A modern school should adapt to the society around it, and deliver what is needed both in knowledge and in flexibility. Because one thing we have to be in life is flexible, as society changes all the way through our life. Smile


Ps.:

As far as I can read, you DO have flexibility, I just found out:

https://www.gov.uk/school-attendance-absence/overview + some pages on Very Happy

And reading this gov. rule or advice, I now can see it was not made for leaving school for one week of skiing, but had a quit different and serious background!
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 After all it is free Go on u know u want to!
After all it is free Go on u know u want to!
1969jma wrote:
Until the point where schools visit holiday providers to seek how much a family saves, and then fines the family this amount or more, families will continue to take their children out of primary school. At secondary school very few families take holiday in term time, intelligent parents realise the importance of good education. Year 10 and 11 work is vital and this the reason why the government has set the expected attendance level to be a minimum of 95%


Intelligent parents realise a rounded and fuller education is what matters that actual experience can be more valuable than reading in a text book or web page.

Unintelligent gov think having one policy to fit all is more intelligent because they are too stupid and pigheaded to realise we are all individual.

In secondary school parents do take their children on holidays in term time in far greater numbers than your "very few". secondary schools close for stupid reasons employ staff ill trained to educate in a given subject due to staff sickness etc. So the if intelligent parents realise the importance of a good education why do schools LEA and Gov not? intelligent parents will make sure their children catch up on any work missed, will encourage their children to share their experiences with classmates/teachers thus giving first hand experience of something that many will only ever have seen in pictures and read about in books or on the web.

Why visit the same amount as a fine as the amount saved ? why not attack the holiday company's to reduce non term holiday costs, or better still make sure LEA's adopt different holiday dates to make it harder for the tour operators to hike prices. Why not have less holidays and allow kids to take time off during term time but hold catch up lessons during each holiday period.

head teachers have a punishment for the kids called inclusion this is actually exclusion from the set learning and just sat in a room with other kids doing very basic general work. I know as a fact this is abused by some heads I know and is causing more damage to a childs education than a family holiday so will you now demand theat the heads involved and chair of gov etc are all fined for these actions? I doubt it very much.


It is not about taking back our schools it is about taking back control of this country and the future we want for our children not the thought police/gestapo that the gov want.
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Quote:

It is not about taking back our schools it is about taking back control of this country

Puzzled a confused message, there, speed098, as you seem to be espousing both individual choice and freedom and a dirigiste approach to control of holiday prices.
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speed098, Your post above is illogical and unworkable on so many levels.

1. Holiday companies don't 'hike' prices during holidays to screw families. They adjust prices to match demand and try and earn a living. If you look at the profitability of most holiday companies you'd see that they struggle to make much of a return at all.
2. Nobody has ever suggested that a full, rounded education is not what is required. That's what everyone wants. The simple point is that you're meant to take holidays during the .........holidays. The clue's in the name.
3. Secondary's schools may close for daft reasons (staff training etc.) but that us due to the unions and teachers' contracts. As you have identified, it's much better if staff teach during the term time and don't disrupt education by holding INSET days which should be held during the hols. By the same token it's a lot more efficient if pupils come to school during the term and take holidays during the holidays.
4. Staggering the holidays is not going to punish holiday companies. They would be massively in favour of it. It spreads the season and evens out demand. Prices would come down, but not to off peak levels.
5. Loss of flexibility over absence is entirely down to people taking a cart and horses through the old rules. Those 'intelligent' parents who take an extra day here or there to do something genuinely educational have lost out because of other parents who habitually take a week or two in term time to go and lie on a beach.
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Try some tips from this blog in your begging letter to the head!
http://skifamille.blogspot.co.uk/2013/09/holidays-in-term-time-debate-continues.html?m=1
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
We haven't taken our children out for whole weeks but have added the odd day to holidays and will likely do this in future too.
As a child, my parents took my sister and I out for whole weeks on several occasions (not for skiing). It was pretty clear then that it was our job to make up for any missed lessons with no extra help from the school. The fact that my sister and I were always well ahead of our classes probably helped.

Anyway, on the topic of lying to school and not wanting to ask your children to lie my attitude to this is:
1. I would never ask my children to lie to school. I might tell them to refer any questions to my wife and I though. Frankly, even if we reported them sick I would be surprised if a week later the school quizzed my children about that. If they did then the answer "My Dad says that my attendance is his decision and he would be happy to discuss it with you" should kill that conversation. It really is not appropriate to interrogate children about something which is not their decision or responsibility
2. In practice, we have just informed the school that the children will not be in on Friday. We have not asked for permission. So far we have not had any comeback. I suspect their strong achievement and very high attendance rate is a factor in that. It does tend to be a day at the end of a term/ half-term when the amount of real education going on is very limited - I think the school is conscious they couldn't claim it was detrimental to anyone's progress with a straight face!
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Quote:

I think the school is conscious they couldn't claim it was detrimental to anyone's progress with a straight face!

they will also probably be conscious that their guidelines would not suggest any such action, or indeed, any action at all.
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 You know it makes sense.
You know it makes sense.
I have noticed it's never parents of the dumb kids who want to take them out.
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 Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Filthyphil30k wrote:
I have noticed it's never parents of the dumb kids who want to take them out.


Laughing Laughing was just thinking the same!
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 Poster: A snowHead
Poster: A snowHead
My problem got a whole lot worse when Mrs M took a job at the school Sad
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 Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
parents of the dumb kids are possibly a bit thick themselves and thus not in jobs that earn the sort of ££ that allows one to ski often enough to become a snowHead ?
Madeye-Smiley
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 Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Filthyphil30k, they just go and don't bother asking
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Damm I promised myself I wouldn't post again on this
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Filthyphil30k wrote:
I have noticed it's never parents of the dumb kids who want to take them out.

Not necessarily "dumb" kids. But if a kid is marginally keeping up, most parents would be very reluctant to take them out of school for a week of skiing. If they care about the kids' education that is.
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abc, I am guessing you don't live in Uk. There is always some chav moaning about being fined coz they took their kids to see Nana in Spain in term time.
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abc, lot of kids struggle precisely because they miss a lot of school. My daughter was trying to teach A level Philosophy a couple of years ago, to a girl who turned up for one session every few weeks.
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 After all it is free Go on u know u want to!
After all it is free Go on u know u want to!
But that's my point. Those parents of kids marginally keeping up shouldn't take them out of school if they care about their kid's education.

Now, if the parents don't care about their kids education, no amount of fine is going to change that attitude. They're probably going to take them out of school regardless...

(Those who aren't keeping up at all, it also doesn't matter if they take them out in term time or not!)
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Just to raise all parent's blood pressure even more Toofy Grin

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-beds-bucks-herts-29685466

Quote:
Bedfordshire school defends head's term-time leave


Got a lot of coverage on East Anglia News. Did I mention that my daughter finished school this year wink
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Not the wisest decision taken, light touch paper and stand well back Toofy Grin
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I'm sure we don't know the full facts, but it's not best decision IMHO
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I as I have explained before a believer in the necessity for occasional term time leave, we have no idea why the head requires it, they have said it is personal. It could be a major illness or anything. I would not criticse the decision without knowing the facts which are not apparent from the story.
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You can be pretty sure that if there was a good reason for it they would have made it public. She is going to the Caribbean which is not a place you would normally go to sort out personal issues. It can't be medical.
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 You know it makes sense.
You know it makes sense.
I need to take mine out of school for one day before half term as we're driving to the Alps. It coincides with the school ski trip to the U.S (where the kids on that have 10 days off school). Do you think the school will have the brass neck to turn me down?
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
My wife is a deputy head at a primary school and has no problem with me taking daughter out of school for a week skiing even though it's a sats year, as for asking permission there's not a lot of point as we're going 6 weeks before they sit the tests so I know what their answer would be.
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 Poster: A snowHead
Poster: A snowHead
Quote:
My wife is a deputy head at a primary school and has no problem with me taking daughter out of school for a week skiing even though it's a sats year


Shocked Shocked Shocked

Any details of the school.... just so I can ring my Daily Mail journalist mate wink

Seriously though, these double standards is what winds everyone up.
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bagginsmum wrote:
I need to take mine out of school for one day before half term as we're driving to the Alps. It coincides with the school ski trip to the U.S (where the kids on that have 10 days off school). Do you think the school will have the brass neck to turn me down?


I wouldn't discount it! Our school has their school ski trip every year during term time so when I put my week in for my kids I didnt expect to hear! I mean that is double standards isnt it? Well I got a phone call from the school asking me to come in for a "chat". I met with some advisor and the head of year who said that they were legally obligated to be seen to be having this "chat" with me. And the head of year even expressed her distain to the whole thing saying that it was unfair. I asked were they inviting all the parents from the school ski trip in for a chat? Would this go down on their record too?

At the parents forum that I attended I actually spoke to the head and he was very sheepish. I asked "were the children having their yearly ski school trip during term time again?" he replied yes why? I said because my child is also having his school ski trip during term time. Would he be inviting all those parents in for this chat? He sort of smiled and half laughed saying "oh you know, its not really aimed at parents like me (normal) with children like mine (who actually attend school), its aimed at the parents who take the kids out to the mall shopping and kids who dont have a good attendance record"! well really if that was the case then why did I have to come in? He didnt really have an answer.

So I have just booked up for France in January (term time) and I was debating on whether to tell the school he was sick for the week. But I really don't want to do that as I don't want my child lying and I really don't see why he should. So this year I want to think about this carefully before I put the holiday form in. I want to check out my facts first. Make sure they are definitley taking the holidays during term time this year and also I might just write to the head saying I will be happy to come in for a chat, once he has had a chat with the 58 kids' parents on the school ski trip.

I dont think for one minute that they will say no or do anything other, but it does annoy me that the school ski trip is during term time.
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 Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Claude B wrote:
Just to raise all parent's blood pressure even more Toofy Grin

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-beds-bucks-herts-29685466

Quote:
Bedfordshire school defends head's term-time leave


Got a lot of coverage on East Anglia News. Did I mention that my daughter finished school this year wink


Week in the Caribbean in January? Sounds like a family wedding to me, so that'll be exceptional circumstances then, no problem Toofy Grin
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Layne wrote:
Quote:
My wife is a deputy head at a primary school and has no problem with me taking daughter out of school for a week skiing even though it's a sats year


Shocked Shocked Shocked

Any details of the school.... just so I can ring my Daily Mail journalist mate wink

Seriously though, these double standards is what winds everyone up.


Haha my daughter doesn't go to the school my wife works at.
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Quote:

She is going to the Caribbean which is not a place you would normally go to sort out personal issues. It can't be medical.


Unlikely to be her own medical issues but she might have close family living out there (parents, siblings).
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Quote:
Unlikely to be her own medical issues but she might have close family living out there (parents, siblings).

Serious medical issues that are pre-scheduled for January? Sure it's possible. Anything is possible....
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It's possible there are double standards in operation.
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After all it is free Go on u know u want to!
She is forced to apply the rules, she doesn't make them.
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Quote:

Serious medical issues that are pre-scheduled for January? Sure it's possible. Anything is possible....


Like a scheduled operation.

Given the inevitable flak that taking such a trip would attract, it just seems to me to be unlikely that she would even request it, let alone be granted it, without a very good reason.
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Exactly we must check the rules first to avoid future problems. As i read an interesting write on this topic that A father fined £630 for taking his children on a week-long break in Greece during the Nassau County Private Schools term has accused the government of imposing "inflexible" holiday rules on headteachers.

Stewart Sutherland and his wife, Natasha, were also ordered to pay £300 in costs and a £63 victim surcharge after appearing in court on Wednesday.

The couple, from Trench, Telford, told magistrates sitting in the Shropshire town that work commitments had prevented them taking a holiday during the official summer break.

have full a read on it
Code:
http://www.theguardian.com/education/2014/jan/16/parents-fined-taking-children-school-holiday-inflexible-rules
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