 Poster: A snowHead
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Update on this. As questions about the Direct Travel policy have resurfaced regarding their off-piste cover and I was renewing, I thought I'd check up about the racing element too. I asked them 4 specific questions
| GrahamN wrote: |
Your policy wording explicity covers Ski Racing (non-FIS), but I have previously seen comments from people considering taking out this insurance that limited this coverage to a much greater extent than what is written. The specific coverage that I am interested in could cover any or all of the following scenarios:
1) participation in the Fleche (GS) or Chamois (SL) public-access races that are staged by normally the ESF at a number of French resorts. These end up with timings back from the forerunner, and gradings based on what percentage you achieve from that opener's time.
2) race training weeks put on by various training companies (e.g. Snoworks, Impulse Racing, Inspired to Ski etc.) These cover a variety of standards from never-raced to those training for Eurotest (part of an instructor's full qualification). Each trainee will work at their own level, some of which may be at FIS standard, but many will not.
3) Instructor training courses put on by BASI that may include specific race training elements, specifically the Race Coach Level 2 course that is required for the ISIA-level instructor qualification. This course includes GS training and a race against the trainer's time (who will typically have raced FIS, possibly even World Cup level).
4) (More hypothetical in my case) The Test Technique (required for entry into the French Instructor school), Eurotest (required for top level qualification for BASI, and also French/Austrian/Italian/German ski instructors) and certain BASS races (specifically the non-FIS races in the Welsh Championships). None of these require a FIS licence and are generally sub-FIS standard. Eurotest passes would be capable of racing at the lower level of FIS categories, but may not be interested in so doing.
All of the above are non-FIS races, and so should be covered by the wording in the policy. Could you confirm for each of the above categories whether it is or is not actually covered by your policy?
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After referring this to the underwriters, they came back saying that situations 1) 2) and 4) were covered. So it does look like they have clarified the position away from what david@mediacopy was told back to what skimottaret and I have been told in tha past. They've also copied that to their client replies database, so it should stand for furture enquiries.
Interestingly, they will only cover situation 3) with an additional premium - fairly miniscule at £7, and still a good deal as the basic policy (annual multitrip, Europe only, Premium cover) cost in the region of £50 - but due to it being an instructor's course, rather than because of the race element. They also specifically wanted to know the dates of the course. As this is also contrary to what skimottaret, beanie1 and I have been led to believe in that past I asked for further confirmation, for them to clarify the interpretation of the wording of the exclusion clause (on page 15 of their policy document) and whether the additional premium was per course or applied for the full year. They replied
| Direct Travel wrote: |
As soon as you are aware that you are taking part in the instructor’s course, you will need to contact us to add this course on to your policy for the extra premium of £7.00.
If you were to do another instructor’s course you need to contact us again, in order for us to refer to our underwriters, to confirm that they agree to cover this new course. Our underwriters may agree that the new course is no greater risk than your first instructor’s course and there may be no additional premium to pay.
If another course was a greater risk than the first instructor’s course, there may be an additional premium to pay.
In relation to our policy wording (of exclusion C), at the top of page 15, please can you confirm if your course is lasting less than 2 weeks ?
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They are slightly missing the point about the policy wording, and it's a bit of a faff, but in the event not too onerous.
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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GrahamN, but doesn't the wording say somewhere that instructor training courses of less than 2 weeks ARE covered? So why do they then say you need to pay an extra premium? Oh well, I'm in HK for the time being and policies here seem to cover everything - they don't even mention skiing, let alone getting into specifics.
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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beanie1, it's an exclusion clause that can be read in two different ways. They exclude from Winter Sports cover
| Direct Travel Policy wording wrote: |
c) ski instructor courses or winter sports courses lasting more than 2 weeks unless you have contacted us and
we have agreed cover (an extra premium may need to be paid). |
You, skimottaret and I have read that in the past as excluding "ski instructor courses longer than 2 weeks" and "winter sports courses longer than two weeks". david@mediacopy, and now they, appear to be interpreting it as "ski instructor courses" and "winter sports courses longer than two weeks", although their final sentence does appear to indicate still the possibility of confusion in their minds. As it's a small additional sum, and I'm still unsure whether it's going to be relevant to me or not, I'm not going to persue it (much  ) further.
(for the pedants among us note a degree of recursion in the definition - using "Winter Sports" in the definition of "Winter Sports")
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
You need to Login to know who's really who.
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GrahamN, Thanks for checking that out. The underwriters appear to have taken a reasonably sensible view although I'm sort of surprised that 3 is excluded while 4 is included, in terms of the relative risk. It's certainly good value although the prospect of calling them up to try and explain again doesn't fill be with enthusiasm.
In the end I went with Ski Club but now read on here that there are some rumblings regarding the level of off piste cover  but I ended up with a bill for almost £200 although it does cover me while Instructing.
I think next time I'll check the BASI offer and maybe consider the BMC policy, although that one may not be ideal if you are doing a season and moving around a bit (I should be so lucky !)
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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david@mediacopy, yep, surprised me too - I did wonder whether they would not cover 4 but would cover 3. Once you have a reasonable level of qualification, and are actually earning something from having taken these courses, the Direct Travel policy is no good, as it doesn't cover professional snowsports (which I would expect instructing to come under, even though it's marginally less risky than DH racing ). The SCGB off-piste/back-county cover question has been resolved favourably (although looking back I see now there was a question about cover at avvy level 3, which is even more restrictive to my mind).
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You'll need to Register first of course.
You'll need to Register first of course.
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GrahamN, It's tricky when there is ambiguity like that, I tend towards the pessimistic view on the basis I don't want to be arguing about it after the event. The trouble is the default call centre response is usually 'no'. Sometimes I do wonder if it's best not to ask
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GrahamN, thanks for posting all that. in the end i have taken the view that i will get local piste resecue insurance wherever i am training/working/free skiing and just use a normal travel policy with winter sports cover for hospitalisation abroad and care needed at home. I cant imagine if for instance i break a knee, get home and need phyiso/surgery that it will make a jot of difference when and how it happened... if i was an office worker and slipped in a resort on some ice i would be covered so will just lie once off the hill.
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