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Carving - inconsistent advice

 Poster: A snowHead
Poster: A snowHead
ALQ wrote:
Awdbugga wrote:
...
And yes, I know how to stop. Aim for the fattest skier who is close to you, to be sure of a soft landing. Twisted Evil


Oi!! Shocked
Remind me to ski BEHIND you from now on!!


Nah, your safe mate. I need you to show me where this "Hot chocolate to die for is". Besides, you're nowhere near fat enough for a safe landing; despite your consumption of copious quantities of Italian cake.
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 Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
flangesax wrote:
During my training we were heavily encouraged to never offer percentages or numbers in concern with weighting the skis. Mainly because (as discussed in this thread) there are so many options and variables. In lessons we offer feedback of 'more' or 'less' etc... but would never say 'during that type of turn you should be weighting 80% downhill and 20% on the uphill...' it's pretty much frowned upon.

It gets fun when you start skiing and carving on just the one ski!... That one really does require a 100% weighting of the uphill ski wink


Agreed.

There is one instance, the transition.

Then, and it may only be for a milisecond, the ratio of balance (weighting) on each ski is 50%.

Then it's more on the downhill ski and less on the uphill ski.

Too many skiers have too much balance on the uphill ski.
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 Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
rob@rar wrote:
GlasgowCyclops wrote:
Because you keep falling down. Doh!!! Happy
Far more advanced than that. It's now a crash when things go wrong, not simply falling down wink


If she ainít flyin, she ainít tryin (in deep husky skimottaret voice)
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Awdbugga wrote:
ALQ wrote:
Awdbugga wrote:
...
And yes, I know how to stop. Aim for the fattest skier who is close to you, to be sure of a soft landing. Twisted Evil


Oi!! Shocked
Remind me to ski BEHIND you from now on!!


Nah, your safe mate. I need you to show me where this "Hot chocolate to die for is". Besides, you're nowhere near fat enough for a safe landing; despite your consumption of copious quantities of Italian cake.


That was last year bruv ... itís been a bad (or very good Madeye-Smiley )year!
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 Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
ALQ wrote:
If she ainít flyin, she ainít tryin (in deep husky skimottaret voice)
That's a freakishly good impression!!
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You'll need to Register first of course.
ALQ wrote:
Awdbugga wrote:
ALQ wrote:
Awdbugga wrote:
...
And yes, I know how to stop. Aim for the fattest skier who is close to you, to be sure of a soft landing. Twisted Evil


Oi!! Shocked
Remind me to ski BEHIND you from now on!!


Nah, your safe mate. I need you to show me where this "Hot chocolate to die for is". Besides, you're nowhere near fat enough for a safe landing; despite your consumption of copious quantities of Italian cake.


That was last year bruv ... itís been a bad (or very good Madeye-Smiley )year!


Think positive. It will now take less effort to apply reverse camber to your skis. Every cloud - - - - - wink
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 Then you can post your own questions or snow reports...
Then you can post your own questions or snow reports...
@Little Martin, L2 as in Landes??
On my fresh up last season it was all about the opposite and getting our legs together more. I think it was because of the change of ski designs over the last 10 years.
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 After all it is free Go on u know u want to!
After all it is free Go on u know u want to!
Too narrow a stance and I think it begins to interfere with how much you can get your skis tipped to increasingly large angles, perhaps also making it more difficult to have good lateral balance with speeds are high and you are getting thrown around a bit. Too wide a stance and you have to move your centre of mass a long way laterally to "get past" your inside leg in order to tip your skis over. I think a neutral hip width is a good starting point for stance, and adjust from there in response to the forces you are creating.
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I think that was it Rob. Going from near shoulder width to a more natural hip width.
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 Ski the Net with snowHeads
Ski the Net with snowHeads
rob@rar wrote:
ALQ wrote:
If she ainít flyin, she ainít tryin (in deep husky skimottaret voice)
That's a freakishly good impression!!


Blush fortunately, the big cuddly wookie wonít remember me.
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 snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
flangesax wrote:
@Little Martin, L2 as in Landes??
On my fresh up last season it was all about the opposite and getting our legs together more. I think it was because of the change of ski designs over the last 10 years.


Nah you can't take the Arlberg out of the Austrian. They like to keep tight hold of those 10 Euro notes between the butt cheeks wink
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 And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
One of the lessons I had with Claude he had us in tuck position as that forced us to use ankles to roll rather than whole body. I found that useful for getting a real feel for being on edge through the turn, although one for a flat run otherwise you can end up at Mach 10 if you donít have the required skill (I donít).

I take much longer to grasp things when I get technical advice like 70/30 etc. my breakthrough moments always happen based on what I feel, thatís when things click and I can start working on them.
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 So if you're just off somewhere snowy come back and post a snow report of your own and we'll all love you very much
So if you're just off somewhere snowy come back and post a snow report of your own and we'll all love you very much
@flangesax, what @rob@rar said.

Basically you can roll easier if your legs are further apart, we aren't talking john wayne, although the drill was fun, and for some of the group improved their positioning of the legs as they tended to skis too close together.

One thing to try in the mountains, just make your legs really wide and try ski on edges when turning, try the same narrow, then adjust in between, and feel the difference in carving.

If you see a world cup racer on their turns, just see how wide the gap is at times on their turns, probably more than shoulder width.

This isn't every turn, as every turn is different, but worth trying out different widths for carving.

I spent a bit of time trying all sorts of positions, my fav where I'm probably more on inside that outside with extreme edge angles and my body is on the floor but still in control carving a clean line. Just watch out for bumps in the snow. Shocked
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 You know it makes sense.
You know it makes sense.
Little Martin wrote:
If you see a world cup racer on their turns, just see how wide the gap is at times on their turns, probably more than shoulder width.

I don't think this is accurate, or helpful for the OP.
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 Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
not trying to help the op Wink
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 Poster: A snowHead
Poster: A snowHead
Lots of good advice given.

- One area to be aware of (apologies if it's been mentioned), is alignment. Your skis have to do the same thing, at the same time and by the same amount. If your physiology makes this impossible, without alignment, you are on an uphill struggle.

- Back in the day, on straight skis, we were taught to have all the weight on the D/Hill ski, as it was hard to bend, unless you were going very fast, with all your weight on it. The U/Hill ski was little more than an outrigger. Now, with skis that turn so easily, the U/Hill one has to pull its weight, so to speak.

- Experiment with different amounts of weight, at different speeds, in different turns and in different snow conditions....but whatever you do, the U/Hill ski should always mirror the D/Hill one. I was once told, that there should always be just enough weight on the U/Hill ski, to keep it stable and tracking beside the other one.
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 Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Old Fartbag wrote:
Lots of good advice given.

- - -- I was once told, that there should always be just enough weight on the U/Hill ski, to keep it stable and tracking beside the other one.


That was the thinking behind my original post. If 100% of your weight is on your downhill ski, as some videos advise; it must make controlling the uphill ski, and making sure it stays parallel, more difficult. Every good carved turn I've seen has two distinct tramlines (not necessarily of equal depth), suggesting there must me some weight, albeit a small amount on your uphill ski, to keep it tracking parallel.

As you say lots of good advice, and surprisingly (and thankfully), non of it was really contradictory.
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 Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Awdbugga wrote:
That was the thinking behind my original post. If 100% of your weight is on your downhill ski, as some videos advise; it must make controlling the uphill ski, and making sure it stays parallel, more difficult. Every good carved turn I've seen has two distinct tramlines (not necessarily of equal depth), suggesting there must me some weight, albeit a small amount on your uphill ski, to keep it tracking parallel.
I think it's pretty rare to have somebody who can split their balance between outside and inside skis, to the accuracy of percentage points. I know I can't, although I am aware of being balanced; outside ski dominant; or very outside ski dominant (including being able to carve fully on the outside ski). I'm not sure why it would automatically be the case that if you're 100% balanced on the outside ski the inside ski is going to develop a mind of its own, wandering off in a different direction. Why would it do that? Being 100% balanced on the outside ski for the majority of the turn is normally only going to happen in a specific drill or exercise, although the vagaries of ski high speed, carved turns might well mean your lateral balance moves around so briefly you might be. The key is to be in dynamic balance rather than seek a fixed distribution of your weight across inside and outside skis. Most of the time the inside ski is going to be (hopefully) tipped to about the same angle as your outside and should track along approximately parallel to the dominant outside ski, unless you add an unnecessary movement like flattening and twisting it.


Rob, long radius turns, slo-mo from InsideOutSkiing
https://vimeo.com/79838624
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@rob@rar, I don't think the U/Hill ski develops a mind of its own per se....In my case, when skiing fast on very hard snow, if there was almost no weight on it (old habits), it could get a little jittery....whereas, if there was a little weight on it, I could feel it working beside the other one.
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 Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Old Fartbag wrote:
... if there was almost no weight on it (old habits), it could get a little jittery...
Is that a problem? It's a dynamic sport, and we get bounced around a fair bit. Just so long as you are in dynamic balance you can cope with all sorts of jitters as you go around the turn. In the clip above, even trying to ski smoothly the inside ski moves around a little. Take a look at the final right-footed turn and see what the inside ski does. It's pretty light for much of the turn, comes off the snow briefly at one point, back on to the snow, bounces a little. But in the grand scheme of things all irrelevant as the outside ski is stable and provides a good platform to create the turn with.
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rob@rar wrote:
Old Fartbag wrote:
... if there was almost no weight on it (old habits), it could get a little jittery...
Is that a problem? It's a dynamic sport, and we get bounced around a fair bit. Just so long as you are in dynamic balance you can cope with all sorts of jitters as you go around the turn. In the clip above, even trying to ski smoothly the inside ski moves around a little. Take a look at the final right-footed turn and see what the inside ski does. It's pretty light for much of the turn, comes off the snow briefly at one point, back on to the snow, bounces a little. But in the grand scheme of things all irrelevant as the outside ski is stable and provides a good platform to create the turn with.

All I can tell you, is that it all felt more comfortable, with just enough weight on the U/Hill ski, so I could feel it working. I can't really speak for anyone else...but it did seem relevant to the question. IME. When you only get 1 week of skiing per year, little things like this can help with getting the two skis co-operating with each other. Toofy Grin
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 Then you can post your own questions or snow reports...
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@Old Fartbag, I am only able to do one week of skiing per year; time in the CFe not included. I'm of the same opinion as you. Even the smallest amount of weight on the uphill ski, helps steady it and track the downhill ski easier. But then I am still a relative beginner. Maybe when I become more proficient I'll be able to control the uphill ski, so it stays parallel with the downhill ski without thinking about it. I'm not at that point yet.

To my simple mind; if there is no weight at all on the uphill ski (zero), then surely it would not make a clean line in the snow and would just be skimming along the top of it some of the time. Yet all the videos I've seen seem to show two distinct "grooves" in the snow.

Having said that, I'm not hung up on it now, as the consensus seems to be, make sure you are well balanced, ski what's in front of you and adjust your weight distribution and ski angles accordingly. Oh, and make sure you swap edges smoothly as you transition from the end of one turn into the beginning of the next (the hard bit). Piece of cake really Shocked Puzzled wink
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 After all it is free Go on u know u want to!
After all it is free Go on u know u want to!
@Awdbugga, There can be a difference between "what is happening" and "what you need to tell yourself to make it happen".
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@Awdbugga, I'm not an instructor nor is my technique all that good so I'm reluctant to give advice but I have seen the ski more recently than anyone else on here. So with that in mind...

Your skiing has come a long way in the last 12 months, especially considering you've only had one week on the mountain and lots of sessions indoors but... Well from what I saw you need to work on simpler thing before worrying about carved turns. In fact I'd say without instruction now, to iron out any issues with your current technique, trying to teach yourself to carve might be counter productive.
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Awdbugga wrote:
To my simple mind; if there is no weight at all on the uphill ski (zero), then surely it would not make a clean line in the snow and would just be skimming along the top of it some of the time. Yet all the videos I've seen seem to show two distinct "grooves" in the snow.
Is anybody advocating 100% on the outside ski* for all of the turn?

* I find it easier to talk about inside ski and outside ski. Uphill and downhill skis are relative terms that change meaning halfway through every turn (just in the last couple of posts you and OF have used the term uphill ski to refer to both the inside and the outside ski).
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adithorp wrote:
Your skiing has come a long way in the last 12 months, especially considering you've only had one week on the mountain and lots of sessions indoors but... Well from what I saw you need to work on simpler thing before worrying about carved turns. In fact I'd say without instruction now, to iron out any issues with your current technique, trying to teach yourself to carve might be counter productive.
Not having seen him ski I'd agree that's usually good advice for all skiers with that level of experience, although there's nothing particularly special about carving as it's just a particular application of fundamental ski skills, so I wouldn't exclude anyone working towards being able cleanly to link carved turns when they are on appropriate terrain.
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 And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
adithorp wrote:
@Awdbugga, I'm not an instructor nor is my technique all that good so I'm reluctant to give advice but I have seen the ski more recently than anyone else on here. So with that in mind...

Your skiing has come a long way in the last 12 months, especially considering you've only had one week on the mountain and lots of sessions indoors but... Well from what I saw you need to work on simpler thing before worrying about carved turns. In fact I'd say without instruction now, to iron out any issues with your current technique, trying to teach yourself to carve might be counter productive.


Adi, Iím going to have a one to one lesson as soon as I can. Only fly in the ointment at the moment is Iím waiting for a potentially very big bill to come in. Last time I get a car on a PCP contract, grrrrr. Sad
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 So if you're just off somewhere snowy come back and post a snow report of your own and we'll all love you very much
So if you're just off somewhere snowy come back and post a snow report of your own and we'll all love you very much
Awdbugga wrote:
... Piece of cake really Shocked Puzzled wink


NOW you speaka my language snowHead
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 You know it makes sense.
You know it makes sense.
@Little Martin, didn't really help me either wink

I was wondering from your last post if you were a Landes 2 instructor but I'm guessing you were meaning Basi 2?
When I mentioned my 'fresh-up' I meant my professional development course with the Salzburger Ski & Snowboard Verband.
We were all made to make sure that the majority of our 'natural' position was a little narrower than we had previously been taught to demonstrate... we were also given loads of new terms to learn.
I think I mention it in a little more detail here ( http://snowheads.com/ski-forum/viewtopic.php?t=76074&highlight= ) ...needless to say, I've already forgotten the new phrases! Shocked Shocked Shocked
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