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Zipfit liner fitters in The North

 Poster: A snowHead
Poster: A snowHead
The North as in Carlisle, maybe Lakes, Newcastle at a pinch or southern Scotland ( inc Glasgow/Edinburgh if have to). Rivi Alpine is really too far to go now.
Can't see any mentioned on a Google search or searching here.
Cheers.
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 Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
@Grizzler, zipfit website suggests there aren't any but no doubt somebody who actually knows will be along

http://www.zipfit.com/zipfit-dealers/
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 Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
I live in Liverpool and when I was looking at ZipFits basically came to the conclusion that the closest fitter was in Bicester.
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@dp, Did you try Ventura ?
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
@Grizzler, afraid you live in s a bit of a vacuum in terms of zipfit, that dealer list is a bit out of date but i can't think of anyone north at all, when i see the agent later this week i will ask if there is anyone he can suggest
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@rjs, I did, they are not really bootfitters there
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@dp, They fitted a trainee of mine with ZipFits and I'm happy with the work they did on a pair of my boots.
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 After all it is free Go on u know u want to!
After all it is free Go on u know u want to!
Thanks @CEM, and others. Bit of a vacuum for a lot of things, including fitters in general!
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@Grizzler, there was a mate of mine basing himself out of Siltsworth slope but he couldn't make it pay so has given up, trouble is everyone likes to hang the sign up saying custom boot fitting some are good some are not so, ( just watch out for those who have done the 2 day course and consider themselves master boot fitters... for $400 it is possible).....the not so good drag the level down to the point people don't trust the good.... viscous circle
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Maybe give Anything Technical in Kendal a call. I don’t think they are agents for zipfit but they might be able to help, they are very friendly and may have a solution for you.
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 snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
@CEM, that'd be Keith Y, would it? Blast. Wondered why I couldn't get hold of him.
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 And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
@Grizzler, yup afraid so
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So if you're just off somewhere snowy come back and post a snow report of your own and we'll all love you very much
@jbob, thanks. I know them for servicing, and they sell boots: not sure how good they are for fitting issues. But they are my nearest, so I'll contact them and see. May be that I have to play with foam and bits rather than go the liner route, else it's more new boots: but where do I get them from and properly fitted???
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 You know it makes sense.
You know it makes sense.
If your boots are a decent fit (and especiaily if right size and shell mouldable)....

Bite the bullet and go to Bicester, if I was you... check if CEM has your size Zipfits in stock first (doh!) and in a lower volume gara as well as the higher volume version if possible.

Or get Zipfits from Jens in Park City , Utah on a ski trip or elsewhere etc - always good to get them fit then ski in the, straight away to get the goop/omfit moving and sorted.

Wish I'd gone to CEM or gone down the Zipfit route years and years before my trip to Utah where I just bit the bullet and got them... so much wasted time with not just Sorefoot but other foamed liners too...
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 Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
@coops1967, I would really like to visit CEM - but bullet or no, it is simply, for me, way too far to drive and there is nowhere near direct public transport; it would be a 2 day trip and be stupidly costly in fuel and otherwise.
Sorry, and absolutely no disrespect to CEM, but it is getting ridiculous if he is the only available bootfitter, never mind Zipfit provider, in the UK. (I am sure that others do exist - although no-one is answering phones or e mails at present, presumably on their hols or closed in main off season.)
I'm not prepared to buy them without a fitter's advice as I don't know which ones I need.

Utah, BTW, is even further wink
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 Poster: A snowHead
Poster: A snowHead
@Grizzler, How far away is Bicester? 6 hours? doable as a day trip surely? early start, couple of breaks, 2 hr appt max, back mid evening. 700 mile round trip (ish), about £80 of diesel in my car. Of course you may have personal limitation that mean you can't drive so far but it is such a shame that you live where you do and always seem to find it difficult to get anywhere.
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 Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
If you geographically constrain yourself then you are limited for physical service to people in your geography. Notwithstanding that they might not be zipfit "dealers" I would imagine a reputable bootfitter in the area you are prepared to travel to could order one in for you - although it might mean you making 2 visits (one to assess, one to fit) or offering to pay shipping (if you want multiple pairs ordering in prior to your visit).
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 Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Grizzler wrote:
.......Sorry, and absolutely no disrespect to CEM, but it is getting ridiculous if he is the only available bootfitter, never mind Zipfit provider, in the UK.....

You're now in to specialist kit (which requires specialist & experienced sizing & fitting) that the average UK skier doesn't need/isn't aware of, meaning that the UK market is very small. The stock commitment in terms of models, sizes, storage volume and value is huge so even if the average shop has the knowledge it's a commitment they're unlikely to make unless they are specialists in the performance end of the market.
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@holidayloverxx, I guess it is all relative to the value and need which you place on things, but £80 and 700 miles and 12 hours of not always easy or quiet driving... (And if I wanted new boots from CEM, at least 2-3 visits most likely.) My point, really. Yes, it's such a terrible shame that I don't live in the northern Home Counties: but I do live nearer UK snows now, and where the housing is a damn sight cheaper (amongst many other nice things up here). I cannot understand why there are not good fitters at least - and surely a good fitter can cope with zipfits or other liner adjustments - north of Oxfordshire (or Lancashire, according to some).
And yes, there are reasons why I couldn't drive even 1/10th of that journey, and wouldn't expect Mr G to be able to make it either, never mind the additional cost of him taking time off work to drive me. We couldn't easily have gone there even when we lived 3 hours further south.
I guess I'll just have to wait until autumn/winter and see if anyone nearer is back in and interested in business - @Dave of the Marmottes, that is, trying to locate anyone, never mind "reputable", even remotely within my 'geography' - which is likely still a 2-3 hour unpleasant drive.

And we wonder why so many people have so many boot fitting problems and end up getting ripped off or having bad service from the likes of SnR. ( that would include me)

@spyderjon, point understood. But again, is there really only now 1 good 'performance specialist' in the whole UK (and not exactly near the snowy bits or indoor domes at that). Lucky him for that reputation and position, lucky people who live near him - but a sad comment for the rest of the enthusiastic UK ski market. Heaven forbid if something should happen to CEM: where will any discerning demanding boot customer go?

Anyhows, thanks for the replies, even if ultimately confirming the position in the negative.
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Grizzler wrote:
@spyderjon, point understood. But again, is there really only now 1 good 'performance specialist' in the whole UK (and not exactly near the snowy bits or indoor domes at that). Lucky him for that reputation and position, lucky people who live near him - but a sad comment for the rest of the enthusiastic UK ski market. Heaven forbid if something should happen to CEM: where will any discerning demanding boot customer go?

I think Alain Baxter would claim to be a 'performance specialist' too. I believe him and CEM are the only two shops that can plane boot soles and router down toe and heel lugs.
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@Grizzler, well I suppose you have made your choice to live in a lovely part of the country despite having limitations to get out of it very easily so you must live with that choice.
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@rjs, yes, I had hoped to get to Alain whilst skiing in Scotland, but our schedules never overlapped unfortunately. I can manage to get up to him in summer I think, not too bad a journey from where we are, and he said that he was around in summer: but I haven't been able to get hold of him for the last several weeks, annoyingly. Presume he'll resurface later in the year.

And I suppose the balance would be restored in that unthinkable situation as postulated: all those poor Mid to Southerners having to lug it up the M6 or A1 to Stirling...

@holidayloverxx, I can "get out of it" quite easily, and go to lots of other lovely places. I don't see myself as having any major limitations except for not being able to drive long distances and being a victim of the southern bias on so many things (tried getting a good skiing physio up here either?) Apparently, I have been told, there's no point in having specialist businesses up here because all the rich skiing people are all down south... (I didn't say it!)
Used to live in London, and Essex, and Surrey BTW: someone had to escape further North to balance out the population congestion Very Happy
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 After all it is free Go on u know u want to!
After all it is free Go on u know u want to!
You're starting to sound like a moon on a stick whiner. Of course there is less demand for fairly esoteric bits of ski kit in a place where there is a smaller population. LD Mountain Centre, Snow + Rock and Decathlon probably cater for the very great majority of the market that do need a physical store.

If you are prepared to experiment you can get decent brand new lace up Scarpa liners on eBay for under £20 ( army surplus). Get a pair of those to tide you over and pick up some zipfits in resort.
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Grizzler wrote:


@holidayloverxx, I can "get out of it" quite easily, and go to lots of other lovely places. I don't see myself as having any major limitations except for not being able to drive long distances and being a victim of the southern bias on so many things (tried getting a good skiing physio up here either?) Apparently, I have been told, there's no point in having specialist businesses up here because all the rich skiing people are all down south... (I didn't say it!)
Used to live in London, and Essex, and Surrey BTW: someone had to escape further North to balance out the population congestion Very Happy


As DoTM says. People have to make a living. You want a premium service in a niche market where there is little demand within your self limited (doesn't matter why) travelling distance. You can't have everything. You either have to compromise; make a greater effort or create a market and persuade someone it's worth servicing. I know some well off skiers around the Carlisle area...they buy in Val d'Isere.

I moved the other way. Never regretted it for one minute Toofy Grin
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@Grizzler, believe me when i say boot fitters have tried to make a living in the north east most have either gone down the "boot seller" route or have given up all together, this is not a get rich quick industry and it relies on hard work, having the stock and a reasonably high throughput of customers so when you have a smaller population then the risks are higher and the rewards smaller, commercially it doesn't make business sense..... when i set up the shop 14 years ago we looked at so many location options and the only one we could make the figures work on was off the high street where we are, most other towns within an hour north south, east or west of here didn't have a viable option available to lease.

your best hope is possibly graham at rivington alpine (about 1/2 the distance) whilst he doesn't stock zipfit he should be able to get a couple of pairs from the agent, Alain doesn't sell them either as he relies more on injection foam liners as thats what the race market wants

there is also a myth you posted up the page about needed 2-3 visits to get a boot, about 70% of people we see are a single visit no problems, but remember due to the tooling we have we get to see all the freaky feet and problems as well as the normal feet that have just had poor fitting boots
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@CEM, and others: OK, not trying to insult anyone. I find it interesting to realise how south to lower midlands centric things (and number of people/punters) are, but if that is how the business case has to work then I understand it from that point of view. Sad, but the reality. As I said above, it's been commented on to me in terms of demand for specialist physios, and other services too.

Back to Zipfits, I know that Rivi Alpine can get them, but he's another person I can't get hold of at the moment (well, several months now).

As for the "myth", CEM: that was exactly what you warned me to expect when I phoned you a few years back to see about using your services. I explained that the journey for me was long and difficult. You said that I would have to be prepared to make 2 or 3 trips maybe to get things right, and needed to take that into account if I came to see you for boots. I couldn't, sadly, guarantee that I could do that much travel, so I had to go elsewhere: and fitting adjustment number 3 (plus personal experiments and playing) is still needed and outstanding.

As suggested above, I might try in resort for some Zipfits (never seen them sold though, only foams (which I've never got on with) or else bodge my existing boots or try and find a good fitter and start again with another pair from scratch. My liners aren't worn, just too loose on a very narrow mid to rear foot and leg (already in a reasonably small last boot).
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 And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
I’m sure I have seen zipfits at Glide and Slide Otley.
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So if you're just off somewhere snowy come back and post a snow report of your own and we'll all love you very much
@Grizzler, i will have told you as i tell everyone, it CAN take 2 or 3 visits, but the normal is one... it all depends on the issues which are present when we see the foot... it is called managing expectations, i can be sure had i said its a one hit process and then you needed to come back for the slightest adjustment i would have been plastered all over here a as bad person

having spoken to the zipfit agent yesterday, unfortunately there is no dealer in the north, closest would be rivington

what resort are you going to be be in? might be able to suggest someone if there is a dealer there
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 You know it makes sense.
You know it makes sense.
@CEM, thanks. I don't at all blame you for how you say it, and it's not unrealistic in my case as I am currently still in the process of getting the 'finesse' aspects of some reasonably-well-fitted boots. I would be surprised, although very pleasantly, if I could get it right in one, given past experience.
My current boots were better than I have had before, but some things still are problems, hence the thoughts about ZFs rather than bodging and sticky-foaming liners/tongues. (Shell stretching is another issue, ideally needed but maybe a boot design flaw or related to the lack of liner support rather than bad fit or wrong size as such.) However, for the moment I think I'll have to go down the latter route until I can either get something which works (which is in itself helpful insight) or track down a fitter near enough to start yet again on new boots. I will continue trying to get hold of RA, will try G&S as well, thanks @retsil.
I don't know what resorts I'll be off to this coming season: could stay UK, else Austria or Italy; I'll ask again if and once I know.
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 Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
RA currently busy with roof boxes. Told me to ring back in September.
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 Poster: A snowHead
Poster: A snowHead
Another point on the paucity of bootfitters, the UK is not an “Alpine” country ... the vast majority of “skiers” do one or two weeks a year and there isn’t sufficient population doing anything else other than racing (typically Scotland) to justify a proper supply and service infrastructure.

Doesn’t make it easier...

All that said, why Zipfits as a solution?
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 Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Whilst ZipFit seem to be rated as the best, you could look at other brands of liner. I think Snow and Rock might be able to supply Intuition liners, they can almost certainly do Sidas liners.

For me, I'm in Liverpool and this season I'll likely travel to Colin for Zipfits. My rationale is that if you want the best product, you always have to make compromises for it. Whether it's the price, distance, etc. I suffer day to day with my feet because of poor decisions made my incompetent people in the past. Sometimes my feet hurt so much I am limping, just from walking around during the day. It really isn't worth it. My honest advice to everyone is get the best footwear you can afford (and make allowances in your life to afford the best) because you only get one pair of feet and unlike boots, liners and anything else, you can't buy a new pair when they're worn out.

I can't tell you if it's worth your effort to make the trip or not. But again I'd rather have a bootfitter who tells me something I don't want to hear (ie that I might have to visit 2-3 times, that my boots are the wrong ones, or that half the problem is my own fitness and range of movement - all things Colin has told me in the past! And all things which, once performed, gave me a noticeably better skiing experience), than tells me the things which I want to hear and makes the trip nice and simple but ultimately leaves me with an unsuitable product on my feet.

I am not trying to sell Colin as such, I am just trying to sell the process of seeing a good bootfitter at whatever the cost because honest to god having messed up feet is really expensive and really awkward in ways that travelling half way across the UK just cannot compete with.
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@dp, I don't disagree, wish that I'd been able to make the effort when I lived nearer you ( which was still a very difficult drive then for various personal reasons) but now really out of the question for more than 1 trip with overnight stay - and experience tells me more than 1 trip could be needed.

@fizzer, yes, I have come across that before, probably why I can't get hold of him, so I may have to wait. Pity, as I'm wanting to get some indoor time in whilst still quiet and courses are on ( and we're not busy) and to get boot issues sorted before UK and European season starts - but understandable from his business perspective. I think RA are going to end up the ( not very ) nearest, whichever route I end up going (see below).

@dp, why ZF? Just another experiment in the quest for boot perfection (well, as near as is doable). Tried many foam liners: my feet do not get on with them at all for some reason. Currently have Intuitions. My problem is lack of ankle, heel, shin and calf volume plus low foot top - all at the back, normal to larger front. Can't get this sorted with shell or buckle adjustments so far, some limited success with stick-on and wraparound foam. (And when they work, boy can I and those watching or sliding with me can tell the difference! Same problem in boarding and mountaineering boots too, of course.) Need a liner that can take extra 'padding' in the tongue and around heel and sides, which I understand ZF will do and other liners don't seem to. Then there's the ability not only to add more padding gunk, but to remove as well. Plus I like the (very slightly) ever fluid idea: my feet seem to change shape or size randomly during the day (yes I have insoles etc) and the cork/oil idea appeals as something which might work with this. I say might: never tried them.
I have had boots properly fitted, but still not 100% the answer in a few ways, and I'm struggling to find thin enough boots (95-97 last) in my size, just on cusp of junior to adult, hence wondering whether to try ZF on the shells I have or just start again with race type boots with good liners (but then the same issue re good fitters within doable distance). No point in getting anything more than shells from your EBs, SnR, Anything Tech, etc as they don't go smaller than a 98 last - which might, of course, work well with a ZF...? An expert therefore is needed. I shall keep on looking and trying to find one whom I can get to.
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@Grizzler,just a thought, where will you be skiing. You might do better in resort, plus that would help if you needed adjustments.
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Grizzler wrote:
[b] Plus I like the (very slightly) ever fluid idea: my feet seem to change shape or size randomly during the day (yes I have insoles etc) and the cork/oil idea appeals as something which might work with this. I say might: never tried them.


Seems to work a treat... I've had a DVT (blood clot) in one leg before and feet can swell a bit or or not depending on level of drinking, just off a long flight etc etc, and my zipfits are fabulous.
Minimal shell closure tightness needed to maintain perfect heel hold and no adjustment needed through the day even.

Make sure you have a good hot air boot dryers or a heated boot bag, so you can get the liner and the goop nice and warm first thing before you cram your foot in them.


Can you see to making a weekend trip out of it, staying at a Travel lodge etc? And think there's an indoor snow dome nearby so you can try them out and get them sorted then and there... or else make sure your next ski trip is to somewhere with a good zipfit dealer/boot fitter (although it's probably fair to say your local Snow and rock with part time spotty teenager 'fitters' isn't exactly going to be a zipfit dealer anyway....) and do it there on the first morning as soon as they open, then go ski while the liners warm.
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@Grizzler, no idea if they would be a suitable boot for you, but my Lange boots are low volume 97 last.
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coops1967 wrote:
.
Can you see to making a weekend trip out of it, staying at a Travel lodge etc? And think there's an indoor snow dome nearby so you can try them out and get them sorted then and there... or else make sure your next ski trip is to somewhere with a good zipfit dealer/boot fitter.


If I can find someone near enough Chill Factore or Castleford or Braehead then I can probably do a fit and ski-in during 1 day, though a cheap overnighter might be possible and allow a return fit visit if needed and another day to test and bed them in ( liners and/or new boots). Again, got to locate available fitter first though...

@Hells Bells, thanks. I found perhaps the same boots by accident whilst looking at and talking to Fishers in Keswick. They stock Lange lv 97mm women's boots (rx model?) in an 80 flex and will get be a 110 if I try on the 80 first. Stock not until September sometime though, but at least it's an option. Supposedly these boots have some tongue padding as well, but whether that helps over and above my current 97 last boots, which are both too loose and too tight, remains to be seen. They claim to be good general boot fitters, may be an option for ski boots? At least near enough to get to. At least they answer phones and e mails.
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@Grizzler, be a little wary about the lange LV, it is a great boot but just because it says LV on it and is marked as a 97mm last doesn't make it right, some 98mm lasted boots have a narrower heel and mid foot, it is all about shape and volume, people have become fixated on the forefoot last measurement (not saying it is not a factor) when all the important stuff happens at the back end of the boot

i have never seen your foot but also worth looking at would be atomic hawx ultra, Head raptor L, Nordica pro machine, and if none of those are low volume enough then there are numerous "race" boots made in 100-120 flex in lasts from 96mm down to 92mm.....there is no crime in having a race boot if your foot is that narrow, people often say they are cold and difficult to fit, that can be true if the foot is wide or high volume, but skinny feet slip right into some of the narrowest boots out there

as a side note zipfit will not fix a boot shell that has too much volume (unless you have exhausted all other options, then with addition of more material it might get close), AND they won't make a boot narrower as there is no material in the forefoot (only neoprene and shearing fleece) what they will do is give a more solid even fit in the midfoot/rearfoot of the boot and give more positive energy transfer to the ski

good luck on the quest to find the boot that works
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book your next ski trip around a boot
fitter. post up here your options of where you wish to go ski, we'll all chime in on who to see in which resort.
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@CEM, thanks.
I got a chance this weekend to try on the Lange RX lv w and the Atomic Hawx Ultra w, both alongside my existing 97mm boots with some renewed heel and ankle padding.
The Lange are no go: worse fit than existing plus similar stupidly low toe box, which is a big issue with my current boots: very sore toe nails if do anything but crank them tight and point skis downhill.
The Hawx were 'comfy' in the warm shop, loads of toe room and potentially not a bad fit at all and probably, with a mouldable shell and liners, might do the job along with more foam stick on bits if needed. Comfy might mean a tad big, but also no nerve or blood compressions, numb bits, cold toes and the rest which I currently get. Visually the heel area is thinner and more shaped than my existing lv boots, although technically 1mm larger last.
My issue is narrow at the rear and no shin/calf grip. The forefoot is happy in a 97 and might be problematical in a race boot, though I am aware of them as an option. The ZF idea was really to get a liner that can be padded in the lower leg, top/front if ankle and tongue area as that is the real problem which no-one can yet solve. Heel grip can clearly be sorted, forefoot is happy to tight already for recreational purposes.
Skiing aggressively for a few hours yesterday my existing boots gave excellent rear hold again, still a bit sloppy or overtightened on the lower leg cuff and front ankle maybe, but still sore toe issue also. Really it's that plus lean angle (very low spoiler causing pressure point?) which is driving me now towards getting some Hawxs, probable 115 or else 95 - I was told the flex comes up soft?
Ideally a trip to you would be great, but in reality I might just have to try what I can get. The other joy of the Hawx is that they have adjustable forward lean in the shell.
My main concern is which shell size: 92vs94mm in between 23.5 & 24 shells, the former feels fine except for the drafted sore big toe touching the end, so could push it out a bit at the front, or just pad more if need later and go for comfort. I know smaller is probably better, but it doesn't feel that it'll give through use as it's shell not liner. Don't know if the mouldable shell would overcome this.
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