Ski Club 2.0 Home
Snow Reports
FAQFAQ

Mail for help.Help!!

Log in to snowHeads to make it MUCH better!
Username:-
 Password:
Remember me:
durr, I forgot...
Or Register
(to be a proper snow-head, all official-like!)

The snowHeads ACL rehab club !

 Poster: A snowHead
Poster: A snowHead
@adithorp, that's actually pretty accurate:D
latest report     
 Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
How bad was it when they got on there?
snow conditions     
 Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
@adithorp, pretty much exactly as grandma suspected, acl snap, with a little bonus damage to the lcl too... surgeon seemed pretty happy with the remaining strength of the lcl thank god.

Ps all your car talk last winter has me regularly checking my sevens-and-similar saved search on eBay again... not that I could get in one for a while:D
ski holidays     
 You need to Login to know who's really who.
You need to Login to know who's really who.
Let me know when you've a bit of flex in the knee and I'll come round and take you out in it.
snow conditions     
 Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
@adithorp, Ohhh feck yeah!!
ski holidays     
 You'll need to Register first of course.
You'll need to Register first of course.
Hi all, Iím brand new to the forum but have been reading through this thread a lot since March. I tore my ACL, with a minor tear of the MCL, sprained LCL, small lateral meniscus tear and lots of lovely bone bruising on an easy red in Cervinia. Weíd skied over from Zermatt, so I had an international retrieval from the mountain - but thatís another story.
I had the ACL reconstruction with two hamstring tendons and small meniscus repair on 13 April. Here I am, almost 15 weeks in. The leg feels stable and like itís getting stronger. I have a brilliant physio and am following his programme religiously. There is still quite a bit of discomfort in the harvested hamstring when walking, as itís only now waking up a bit more. Up until now I was treading more on the outside of my foot, resulting in an awkward move with the foot as I was landing. Now Iím treading almost as I should, but itís obviously sore. My balance is also not brilliant, and there still some residual swelling over the portals. Hope that chimes with othersí experiences and that itís not just me! Itís so easy to think youíre the only one who still has issues at this point and/or that youíre behind where you should be and that it will never get better.
Just reading through othersí posts has been so helpful. Itís a long and sometimes lonely road, even though I have a wonderfully supportive husband. Best of luck to everyone still rehabbing and hope the others who have completed their rehabs are skiing well!
snow conditions     
 Then you can post your own questions or snow reports...
Then you can post your own questions or snow reports...
@BorntoRun, Welcome to SnowHeads!!

Good to hear you've got a brilliant physio.. Must be quite the confidence booster. Mine's obviously not bad or anything, but I wish Grandma Sunshine worked down here:D

Nice to read how you're getting on at 15 weeks. I know it still seems pretty bad but remember how far you've come. For me that's something to look forward to! I'm 2.5 weeks in on an ACL recon and sprained LCL and, well, you know what it's like eh...

Keep on keepin' on!
latest report     
 After all it is free Go on u know u want to!
After all it is free Go on u know u want to!
Thank you jimjams! How are you getting on? Is the LCL causing you grief as well, or is that pretty much sorted? I didnít even have an inkling that mine was sprained until the MRI. The MCL, though minor, was by far the most sore!

I hope I didnít scare you there with my hamstring complaints. Mine have always been a bit rubbish, on top of which they had to use two tendons, as one wasnít thick enough. So Iím now an oddity with an octuple ACL graft Very Happy ! Bottom line, I donít think everyone gets as much grief from their hammies as I have.
As you say, keep on keeping on. Weíre all still standing (sort of Very Happy )
ski holidays     
 You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
@BorntoRun, Don't worry... So far my harvested hamstring seem so be healing fairly well, it's the least of my worries:D

The LCL has so far been the worst source of pain thus far (aside from the op and last 2.5 weeks of course!). To be honest I'm not convinced it isn't a little torn, diagnosis wasn't particularly exact and to top it off, I didn't really understand a lot of the LCL stuff, and failed to request clarification (to be rectified on my next visit). At the time I was more concerned with the "gone bye-bye" ACL. Surgeon flexed the knee with a camera in there and was happy the LCL was still doing its job though.

The ACL itself, despite all the instability, barely hurt... If at all at all! Rather polite of it:D
snow report     
 Ski the Net with snowHeads
Ski the Net with snowHeads
Yep, same here. No ACL pain, not even instability. Made me feel a bit of a fraud! Apparently those same rubbish hammies are quite reactive and were keeping everything together. Whereas the physio I saw at the time says that once she released the muscles on the treatment table, the joint was wobbling all over the place. Lovely thought!
Did they brace you for the LCL either pre or post op? And how long did you have between injury and surgery? It might have healed in between. They braced my MCL for 6 weeks pre op, and were going to brace it post too. It was still protesting by the time I had the op. But apparently it had ďhealed nicelyĒ according to the camera. Just as well, as I tried the brace they were going to give me and it was really not fun to wear over the incisions! Toofy Grin
snow report     
 snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
@BorntoRun, welcome, and all the best for the future aches, pains, twinges, changes, sudden improvements, set backs, forgotten I've ever done its and - well, as you said, we're still standing Very Happy (on 1 leg for balance practice, of course).
I have ongoing hamstring issues too, plus other seemingly-related outer thigh/calf aches and other remaining annoyances, and I never had surgery or recon. They were always very difficult and painful to stretch. But, like you, the thinking is that it's maybe the tight hammies that're holding the knee together - or at least helping - so I'll live with 'em as best I can and not try to over stretch them.
I also had a lot of outer knee pain at and for a long time after my injury on 1 of my 2 injured knees. They said no LCL, bone bruising or meniscal damage (as per MRI and otherwise), though my physio at the time wasn't convinced just because of the pain. It eventually eased, though can still be twinged and annoyed (mainly by drag lifts I think).
ski holidays     
 And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
@BorntoRun, I wore a brace for a few days after my first visit to the knee chap, but the thing was a huge pain in the ass and the surgeon was happy enough with me abandoning it as the LCL still held the joint well enough. I was much more mobile without it too. The surgeon mentioned a post op brace at some point but I'm not sure if they no longer think it necessary (4 months injury to op) or have just forgot:D

I can imagine a brace on freshly chopped knee wouldn't be fun!!!!

BorntoRun wrote:
Whereas the physio I saw at the time says that once she released the muscles on the treatment table, the joint was wobbling all over the place. Lovely thought!


Eeaaaaurrrrrrghhhhhh!!! Very Happy
ski holidays     
 So if you're just off somewhere snowy come back and post a snow report of your own and we'll all love you very much
So if you're just off somewhere snowy come back and post a snow report of your own and we'll all love you very much
@Grizzler, sounds like you're doing incredibly well without the ACL, I'm very impressed! One of the surgeons I saw post injury said his French brother-in-law has been skiing like a demon for 20+ years sans ACL in one knee. And apparently he also comprehensively beats his healthy-kneed rivals on the tennis court. So there's a bright sporting future for you! Smile

@jimjams, surely it's healed four months in, even if there was a dinky little tear in there? Apparently the reason my MCL was so horrible to me pre op was that it was having to do all sorts of unusual work in the absence of an ACL. Maybe that was you too. So our ACLs might not be so well mannered after all Very Happy Sure enough, post op the MCL pain went away. Or maybe it was overshadowed by the bigger pain of having a big drill put through the knee bones!! EEEK! Toofy Grin
latest report     
 You know it makes sense.
You know it makes sense.
@BorntoRun, Don't mention the drill!!

But yep, you could be right there. I too am experiencing a similar lack of pain in the less wrecked ligament now... And the same suspicion it might be down to it being overshadowed by op pain:D
ski holidays     
 Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
@jimjams, you have other hardware treats to look forward to. When the swelling went down enough, I spotted a little bump by the long incision... which my physio confirmed is the tibial screw. Ewww!!! wink
latest report     
 Poster: A snowHead
Poster: A snowHead
@BorntoRun, Shocked

I'm glad I'm learning all this after the op:D
latest report     
 Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
I hear you!! Wink
snow report     
 Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
How are you getting on @jjams82, and @Grizzler? My battle with my slightly-off gait continues. But I'm fighting back with Bulgarian split squats, one legged Romanian deadlifts, many many wall sits with heel raises, standing bike intervals, and other things that make my puny leg shake like jelly Toofy Grin If these don't start to bulk it up, I don't know what will!
latest report     
 You need to Login to know who's really who.
You need to Login to know who's really who.
@BorntoRun, Add German Volume training for rapid muscle re-growth from atrophy, my quadriceps muscle was ruptured badly, apart from loss of acl, and torn mcl and lcl and associated fractures etc, but gained over 1/4" of muscle in 5 weeks, plus big strength gains.
latest report     
 Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Wow, thank you @Markhandford. I just looked that up and it looks seriously impressive! How soon after the operation did you start? And how are you getting on now?
Looking forward to being allowed more serious weights (Iím onto light and only some exercises for now) and Germany looks the way forward!
An interesting one my physio got me to do early on to work the fast twitch muscles without weights is vascular occlusion training, essentially restricting blood flow to the exercising leg. Serious muscle burn for something that looks very innocent. Obviously less useful once you are allowed weights though.
snow report     
 You'll need to Register first of course.
You'll need to Register first of course.
@BorntoRun, I'm unfortunately still in the no-squats period so haven't been started on the real exercises yet - it's rather frustrating! Gait fixing is my current thing, a straight leg while walking still has a mental "warning danger zone code red" attached to it after 6 months of instability but I'm getting past it. I just wish I could start on the real strength stuff! I've been out on my bike lately which has been a relief, pedalling rather limply with the bad leg due to fear instilled by the aforementioned squats ban, but getting enough exercise to work up a sweat, and it seems to be good for it. 3.5 miles to the end of the road and back once a day, not much, but it's great to be out under my own power!

Only a week and a half left till I can start the real rehab:D
snow report     
 Then you can post your own questions or snow reports...
Then you can post your own questions or snow reports...
@BorntoRun, thank you for your encouraging words. I was actually thinking of starting playing tennis just, you know, to give the knees something else to get twisted on Laughing
So, if your surgeon's bil skis like a demon sans 1 ACL, what might I ski like sans my 2, I wonder? Oh, I can but dream Toofy Grin
ski holidays     
 After all it is free Go on u know u want to!
After all it is free Go on u know u want to!
@BorntoRun,
I didnít have an op, too much trauma in he early days, and 2 consultant S said I would rehab conservatively, see the other ACL thread on th forum.

Itís 6 months since the injury and going slowly and surely as expected. Only started heavier weights a month or so ago.

The only pain I have these days is patella tendon area when walking down stairs or trying to do one leg sit to stand- have been struggling with this for 3 months atleast and it stops me from doing sit to stand on one leg- however no pain from this when leg pressing 143kg.

I have a set of milestones from my physio
Chair Sit to stand one leg with no wobbles, both legs.
Then moving on to hopping and skipping.
Gentle running - fractures should be good by then.
Indoor skiing under supervision.

This should all end up coming together by mid December, fingers crossed.
But the constant hold back is this knee pain and weak quad muscle - it will repair,it will grow,it will get strong and I will Ski, climb and mountaineer with no ACL Smile
snow report     
 You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
@jjams82, out on your bike sounds very good to me! I remember the frustration of those first 6 weeks so well, and if I could have cycled outdoors it would have made such a difference. But I'm such a rubbish cyclist even when healthy, I'd have cycled myself straight back into the hospital Very Happy If it's any consolation, my fat pad turned out to be a grumpy so-and-so (still is to an extent!). So to limit irritation from walking with no muscles, my physio seriously restricted my walking well into the seventh week, to no more than 5-10 minutes at a time followed by rest. You can imagine how much fun that was on a long weekend to Venice at 6 weeks! On the plus side, it was an excuse to try many many local cafes:D BUT guess what, it paid off. The irritation died down. It's still gets a touch inflamed when I've done a lot of exercise now, but nothing like it was. Better a good rehab than a rushed rehab. Your protocol may well have spared you all sorts of horrors that some people develop from overly-aggressive rehabs. My physio too is being conservative about introducing things like heavy weights and running (not on the horizon for now until I'm way, way stronger) compared to other protocols. But I've come to appreciate that he knows what he's doing and it'll serve me much better in the long run. And so it will with you! And I know that feeling of the leg suddenly extending walking in the early days. Used to make my heart lurch every time. Oh, the joys of ACL tears! I don't think people who haven't been through it can quite understand...


Last edited by You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net. on Wed 8-08-18 10:01; edited 1 time in total
latest report     
 Ski the Net with snowHeads
Ski the Net with snowHeads
@Grizzler, my money is on you showing those knees who's boss at tennis! The irony is that I bet all of us will have stronger and fitter legs - and probably safer!!- than ever before by the end of our rehabs (surgical or not). Too bad it took an ACL tear for me to get there Toofy Grin

@Markhandford, you absolutely will! And your quad will do as told. It just takes such a long, long time it seems, much longer than any of us would have imagined. But it will get there, and 143kg on a leg press after only a month of weights sounds to me like you're well on your way. Keep your chin up and persevere- we WILL all get back to our normal lives!
snow report     
 snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
@jjams82, I would add that I found - and heard others say as well - that things seem to progress in 4 week chunks in the rehab. You plod along with exercises for ages and see little improvement, and you wonder if it's getting better at all. Then, in 4 weeks or so, you suddenly notice a big improvement. I had moments like that at 3-4 weeks, at 7-8 weeks and then at 11-12 weeks, when suddenly the knee felt better. So if I'm counting correctly and you're approaching 6 weeks in not very long, you should hopefully have a big improvement in a couple of weeks Very Happy
latest report     
 And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
@BorntoRun, Re the irritation - the major problem which I had and still do have. Obviously don't know if it's the same as yours - mine seemed mainly muscle, though obviously there was knee, pat fem and other things - but it interests me how much different rehab protocols and advices differ. Don't know if it's physio or doctor specific, or related to exact combination of injuries and existing inflammation or trauma. In my case I was encouraged to do as much as was 'sensible', tolerate some reasonable pain, ice or heat afterwards and just carry on as normal whilst doing home exercises. Only cycled static indoors. My walking distances picked up pretty quickly, certainly by 6 months - not problem free, however - though there are still improvements going on now, 16+ months. I suffer quite a bit from post exercise problems in the soft tissues mainly (deep aches, restless leg etc) and there is still a feeling ( perhaps feel rather than actual) of weak, fizzy, numb muscles, mainly above knee and in side and top quads in 1 leg. A few lateral twinges in the other,cespecislly after hard ski/board days. Full stamina definitely not back all the time, though I haven't been doing super gym sessions to be fair; too busy manually labouring and some hill walking, just starting indoor cycling and exercises again now it's cooled down a bit. The muscles sometimes seem fine, I forget any knee injuries, then at other times they let me know how damn tired that are and that they are not meant to be holding my knee together in the absence if the bits of elasticated string which they used to have to help them with it.
I don't personally think that my legs as such will be stronger now: they have been strengthened more, but any (very) slight irritation or inflammation in the knee can apparently switch off the VMOs, and I'm not unrealistic in assuming that there could well be some irritation ongoing. Also, they now have a lot more work to do than they used to. So they have to be stronger, but overall maybe that doesn't show in any better a performance than how I was before - an outcome which I'll gladly take, all considered.
Stretching is probably a big necessity for me, calf and hams. Just found a very good massage lady too. So not 100% yet, but hoping I'll get near enough.
The thought of a full ski season and full weeks of continuous skiing (last year was lots of 1-2 day outings) is motivation to get back onto some serious exercising now. Talking of which....
latest report     
 So if you're just off somewhere snowy come back and post a snow report of your own and we'll all love you very much
So if you're just off somewhere snowy come back and post a snow report of your own and we'll all love you very much
@BorntoRun, It's a frustrating process eh! It's sometimes hard to understand why one can't just get on with chucking masses of strength/balance/everything work at it straight away, but like you say, there's probably some knowledge behind the protocols eh! I have to admit, I still don't 100% trust my physio quite yet - but I must concede she still knows a hell of a lot more about it than I do.

I can see, with a name like "BorntoRun", not being allowed to get on with running yet must be a bit of a blow.

BorntoRun wrote:
...4 week chunks...


That's good... Two weeks was a big one for me, (driving + crutchless walking) so the 6 week mark is indeed my next (hopefully) progress benchmark chunk!
latest report     
 You know it makes sense.
You know it makes sense.
@jjams82, my husband still goes on the same runs we used to do together twice a week. Pre-op it broke my heart every time he set off. He once complained that he couldn't be bothered and I blew up like a grenade. Knew better than to say it again after that! Toofy Grin But then post-op when walking becomes a challenge, running seems on a completely different planet! So ironically I miss it less. And much as I love it, the thought of that impact going through the knee right now makes me wince. Especially the hammy. Do you find your hammy protests at the slightest twinge, like stubbing your toe? Mind you, give it a month or so and all going well I'll be raring to run again Very Happy

Re throwing everything at it right away, the way it was explained to me was the muscles are so weak early on that the joint would take all the pressure and swell up, which in turn shuts down the muscles you're trying to build, and so on in a vicious circle. Hence taking it sloooow. I think over-aggressive rehab early on when the area is still traumatised (by the unmentionable drill Toofy Grin ) can also trigger excessive scar tissue formation. That's not to mention other things like Patello Femoral Syndrome, Fat Pad Syndrome and other lovely sounding treats. I think my surgeon also said heavy weights without enough muscle to support them put too much pressure on the actual graft. Or that's my excuse for still refusing to carry my own suitcase Toofy Grin

Interesting re the physio. I had a first one I thought was a bit cavalier about it all. I really trust the one I switched to, partly because he works with the surgeon. The first one kept dishing out advice that contradicted him. Why don't you trust yours?
snow conditions     
 Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
@Grizzler, very interesting about different protocols. There definitely are rehab protocols that are way more aggressive than mine. I don't know what my physio would advise for someone with more natural muscle than me for instance. I'm not amazing in that department to say the least, especially not the blessed hammies, overactive as they are Very Happy . I assume he'd tailor it accordingly. He also made it clear that the long walking restriction period was specific to my fat pad issues and my awful gait at the time which put extra pressure on it - and yes, the gait was partly courtesy of the VMO and the cut hammie, both fast asleep!

I wonder if not having had the surgery meant you had less muscle atrophy? Did you have any directly post injury? I did, but nothing in the league of what happened post op. I lost about 3kg in a couple of days and I bet that was all quad and hammie! Apparently the swelling sends a message to the brain to shut down the muscle, so I'm guessing you got one round post injury, but you get two rounds if you also have the op.

Interesting also what you say about the feeling of weak and fizzy muscles in that leg. Have you asked why that might be? Or is just because the muscles in that leg have to work harder as you say? Or is it because they are still a bit weaker than the other leg?

And may I ask how your gait is? Mine never went normal pre surgery, I was already letting my knee slump inwards as I walked or stood. The physio I had at the time (different one) said it was because my body was protecting my part torn MCL. But in retrospect I think it was the VMO having shut down. I didn't stop the slumping until a few weeks ago, after the (current) physio gave me lots of exercises targeted specifically at that. McConnell squats are one- those were SORE when I first started them. I still have to be vigilant that I don't fall back into bad habits when I'm standing for a while though...

Stretching and massage - oh YES! I love my foam roller, though I hate it too at times Very Happy
latest report     
 Poster: A snowHead
Poster: A snowHead
@BorntoRun,
Foam roller - got one, can't make head or tail of anything positive to do with it that a deep finger dig or stretch doesn't achieve.
Don't know if you realised, but I did both ACL/MCL at the same time, which makes progress and comparison hard to measure but in some ways maybe has some positives - except taking twice as long on 1-legged exercises!
No clue on gait, but none commented except my normal odd knee/foot alignment and inward pointing knees ( which I'd just nearly corrected before the injury Sad )
Arthrogenic inhibition is the term for the inflammation and small bits of unwanted internal fluid switching off the VMO and other muscles. Google it at will.
Oh, I had huge muscle loss - chicken legs was us. Never knew how bony my knees really were. Funnily enough they never felt weak though: was doing same exercises a couple if weeks after as I was before: static ones at least. Still, my old skinny jeans fit better now Laughing Still not got it all back, though there's some definition. Quads made a major leap end of March after some good hard Scottish skiing: could really feel them strengthen. Took probably 12 months to get VMO starting to work throughout full ROM, and that was only after a helpful physio pointed out the need to practice that.
ski holidays     
 Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
@Grizzler, did you tear the ACL and MCL in the same leg? Extra sympathy in any case, as I remember even my minor MCL tear HURT! I even didnít believe it had healed pre-op and booked one last appointment with the surgeon to check it. It had, as confirmed during surgery. Is your MCL healed now?

I may be wrong, but I think you would feel it if your gait was odd. I certainly did. So yours must be fine - very impressive.

Re the foam roller, Iím just not very good at the finger digging sadly, and not allowed all range of stretches just yet. So itís my torture instrument of choice for the IT band. But I can see how you could easily do without if you know what youíre doing.

Very interesting re the VMO through the full ROM. May I ask what you did for that?

PS funny, I also always had inward pointed knees as well! The injured one then went a whole new level though, it was properly slumping...
latest report     
 Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
BorntoRun wrote:
@jjams82, my husband still goes on the same runs we used to do together twice a week. Pre-op it broke my heart every time he set off. He once complained that he couldn't be bothered and I blew up like a grenade. Knew better than to say it again after that! Toofy Grin But then post-op when walking becomes a challenge, running seems on a completely different planet! So ironically I miss it less. And much as I love it, the thought of that impact going through the knee right now makes me wince. Especially the hammy. Do you find your hammy protests at the slightest twinge, like stubbing your toe? Mind you, give it a month or so and all going well I'll be raring to run again Very Happy

Re throwing everything at it right away, the way it was explained to me was the muscles are so weak early on that the joint would take all the pressure and swell up, which in turn shuts down the muscles you're trying to build, and so on in a vicious circle. Hence taking it sloooow. I think over-aggressive rehab early on when the area is still traumatised (by the unmentionable drill Toofy Grin ) can also trigger excessive scar tissue formation. That's not to mention other things like Patello Femoral Syndrome, Fat Pad Syndrome and other lovely sounding treats. I think my surgeon also said heavy weights without enough muscle to support them put too much pressure on the actual graft. Or that's my excuse for still refusing to carry my own suitcase Toofy Grin

Interesting re the physio. I had a first one I thought was a bit cavalier about it all. I really trust the one I switched to, partly because he works with the surgeon. The first one kept dishing out advice that contradicted him. Why don't you trust yours?


[desperately searching for silver linings mode] At least after all that time off, running will be all the more satisfying! My first few bike rides were pure joy:D [/desperately searching for silver linings mode]

I wish my physio had explained all that about the joint taking the strain and the swelling and muscle shutting down (and all the rest!), I should get you to take notes and pass 'em on, I learn more from you than my physio:D -- That's part of why I'm not 100% on her, I don't get much stuff explained, and specific questions I have will often stump her and and in reading the NHS post-ACL-protocol sheet of paper trying to find an answer! I could read that myself dammit! The only physio I'd spoke to about it before this was on the trip where it happened, he correctly diagnosed it in 5 minutes and had a head full of knowledge on the subject, so it's all relative I guess... Most of what I asked him was along the lines of "oh feck, so how fecked am I? Very fecked? How fecked is very fecked? Oh FEECCCKKKK", but even conversations like that that were like night and day compared to my current physio:D

There's a private place down the road, I've been considering an session with 'em sometime soon to get some proper info!
snow report     
 You need to Login to know who's really who.
You need to Login to know who's really who.
@jjams82, thoroughly recommend a private physio, even just for an assessment if funds are tight. But don't just choose the nearest. Phone around, be honest about your injuries, sports, problems, aims etc - and find one who properly knows about knees and ligament injuries. There must be some in Liverpool, Chester, somewhere near you. Ask on here, someone might know.
I was most unimpressed with NHS physios, both on initial rehab and when I had a worrying pain and swelling after skiing early this year. They knew, well, squat - never mind which ones to do, or not do - (I may offend those who are very good, in which case I apologise to them).
I was lucky and my local village private practice had someone who'd done both ACLs and had surgery on one and conservatively managed the other, so not only knew 1st hand but was interested in the research, conferences etc and worked also with knee surgeons in private clinics.

@BorntoRun, VMO thing stupidly easy. Place fingers on it, make sure is clenched & activated. Do several reps of moving the leg from full extension to full flex whilst keeping VMO constantly clenched. Start off sitting upright, leg outstretched, on a bed or recliner with foot sliding to and fro on the surface, then do it with leg free hanging whilst sitting, then do it standing to squatting, then in any other sports-related movement you wish. Idea is to remind the muscle that it's meant to be active whatever you do, not just in static rehab exercises. (Idea came from some Aussie or NZ woman, apparently, fed into various sports team people, where I picked it up from an England team physio.)

As for my knees, the official Austrian diagnosis, after MRI, was that in both I had a complete tear of the ACL and in both a good partial tear of MCLs, plus blood in the joints. Swollen like 2 huge melons for weeks. Blinking tender and painful, mainly the medials but also and later (for a long time) a lot of lateral stuff which no-one ever explained. I never as such thought that the ACLs hurt; only minor pain when one side 'popped' - twice - and none at the time in the other.
snow report     
 Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
@jjams82, very much second what @Grizzler, said about trying to find an ACL/knee specialist physio if you can, even for an initial assessment. I got so much out of that first session with my current physio - in fact most of what I spouted out about the swelling shutting down muscles, or "arthrogenic inhibition" as Grizzler much more knowledgeably put it. Which is when I decided it was definitely the right choice to switch Very Happy
Otherwise, I'm always happy to parrot back what he tells me. I always show up with a long list of questions I've noted down through the prior two weeks. The poor man must dread my sessions! And it's a good outlet for my tendency to start every other sentence with "The knee..." or "The physio said..." Toofy Grin
[desperately searching for silver linings mode] - that's what this rehab is all about. "HURRAH I've rejoined civilisation, I can now put my own socks on!"- that desperate!

@Grizzler, I'm so dense, I failed to work out you did the ACL/MCL in both legs! I thought you were joking about the tennis, or anticipating twisting the other knee on court. Yikes, that must have been one hell of a fall!! Seriously impressive progress back to skiing- and tennis. But I agree, the ACL never caused pain as such for me, just the MCL. And probably the impressive bone bruising. I felt slightly queasy when they explained that the bones knocked into each other in the twist. Eeek.

And thank you very very much for the VMO tip, extremely helpful. It also chimes in with one I'd read that tapping on a particular muscle just before you start to exercise it helps the brain in activating it. Not sure if that one's true, but it didn't stop me trying in the early days of the sleeping hamstring!
snow conditions     
 You'll need to Register first of course.
You'll need to Register first of course.
Quote:

oh feck, so how fecked am I? Very fecked? How fecked is very fecked? Oh FEECCCKKKK"


I so remember that feeling! The kind, elderly Swiss GP I saw in the resort diagnosed it right away. Then, when he saw me so distraught, he reassured me that it could well be something else, only the MRI could tell for sure, and he was "optimistic". But as I left/ hobbled pathetically out of the room he said "Just one thing - you're young, have the surgery". wink
ski holidays     
 Then you can post your own questions or snow reports...
Then you can post your own questions or snow reports...
@BorntoRun, yes, I've heard the tapping the muscle bit too. More an "oy, you! Yes, you. Wake up and do your stuff, will you?" approach I think. Presume that it has a more accurate clinical justification wink Then again, I have done a lot of talking to, cajoling of, willing on, bribing of, thanking and threatening of my various knee and leg structures. Might have helped..?

Oh, and it wasn't a fall: more a high speed, push-assisted, inability to land an unplanned aeriel front 360 (i.e. someone hit me from behind.) I landed in a perfect frog on its belly pose, legs splayed out. Don't know what did the damage: only the 'worst' leg popped, twice, and only when I eventually stood up, but the docs said both were equally injured. The poppy one took longer to recover, still gives me the majority of the problems, but the other knee had more unexplained lateral pain and was the one which reacted more in this year's early skiing.
latest report     
 After all it is free Go on u know u want to!
After all it is free Go on u know u want to!
@Grizzler, @BorntoRun, That's decided it then, I'll book in a session next week. My local place seems rather good, in that they make a big deal of their ACL skills on the website, and regularly seem to have footballers cars (you can spot 'em a mile off!) parked outside when I pass. I'll give 'em a call though and probe them a little, and check out other local spots too as you say (from memory there's at least a few, I live in a football player heavy area), just to enhance the confidence levels in whoever I end up seeing. I don't want to mess about with this stuff, the money has got to be well worth it eh.

Ta for tipping the scales in that direction, I'm sure I won't regret it:)

BorntoRun wrote:
"HURRAH I've rejoined civilisation, I can now put my own socks on!"

Yep Laughing
I remember that one!!

BorntoRun wrote:
I so remember that feeling! The kind, elderly Swiss GP I saw in the resort diagnosed it right away. Then, when he saw me so distraught, he reassured me that it could well be something else, only the MRI could tell for sure, and he was "optimistic". But as I left/ hobbled pathetically out of the room he said "Just one thing - you're young, have the surgery". wink


Awww that's good of him:)

The Snowheads trip physio who diagnosed me was wonderfully blunt, which was just what it turned out I needed. *tweaks leg* "hmm not bad" *tweaks leg* "hmm a little movement there" *tweaks leg* "ahh, your ACL's fecked"..... "yep, completely fecked".... "yeah you're gonna need a big op, and many months of rehab. it's going to be a total bastard"

It let me get all the panic and freaking out done with early, a massive help. Thanks again Grandma:D



Rehab diaries week 4.5 - Today I've been on my biggest day out since the op, quite exciting really - a trip to chester with a mate who needed to visit a couple shops. Ended up walking further than ever before, being the furthest away from home since the op, and after hours on my feet (with occasional coffee/food stops etc) I was rather surprised how well the knee took it, both in terms of swelling and pain. Mini milestone, and a very a good day!
snow report     
 You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
...But in retrospect I think it was the VMO having shut down. I didn't stop the slumping until a few weeks ago, after the (current) physio gave me lots of exercises targeted specifically at that. McConnell squats are one- those were SORE when I first started them...

Stretching and massage - oh YES! I love my foam roller, though I hate it too at times Very Happy[/quote]

Iím having trouble with a shut down or plain lazy VMO slowing down my rehab. What were the other exercises that were suggested to target this?????
And what are you supposed to do with the foam roller? The cats seem to like using it as a scratching post, but Iím sure I should be using it more productively.

Many thanks and good luck with your rehab!!!!!
ski holidays     
 Ski the Net with snowHeads
Ski the Net with snowHeads
@Grizzler, I definitely talk to - and about - my knee much more than is healthy. Cajoling, but also lots of "why on earth are you grumpy today? what have I ever done to you?" (other than twist it hard, tear it apart, get a man to chop it open and drill into it, and then expect it to carry on as usual Toofy Grin ).
Your accident sounds horrible... Did you know the person who hit you from behind?

@jjams82, woohoo! Let us know how you get on with the football physio. A very good idea to go with that, if expensive footballers are entrusted in their care ...
Quote:

Rehab diaries week 4.5
Way to go! You're well ahead of me there. The lack of extra swelling/pain is a very good sign. Tomorrow we're going to an exhibition and I'm determined NOT TO take my old lady fold-out camping stool. I figure at 4 months I need to put my big girl pants on and get on with it.

Quote:

It let me get all the panic and freaking out done with early, a massive help

I really could have done with that rather than a drip-drip-drip of panic and dread for two weeks until I had my MRI back. I was allowing myself to hope, because back in 2013 I was wrongly diagnosed with an ACL tear in the other knee by a doctor in Austria. The MRI came back clean, just some minor cartilage wear and tear rolling eyes And then the first surgeon I saw in the UK was 50/50 on it, because my hammies were holding everything in tight. But I had also read up on ACL tears the first time around, so I sat there getting more and more terrified for two weeks. I actually became strangely calm with the diagnosis Puzzled
So much better to have it said bluntly, all in one go. The first surgeon I saw, who I did NOT go with, was insisting that I really wouldn't need much help immediately post op. Just "cups of tea"! And the knee would feel great at 2 months, and he'd have trouble holding me back from sports! YEAH RIGHT That has so been the case, NOT Toofy Grin
Which leads me to...

Rehab diaries week 17.6 - I walked WITHOUT thinking of my knee or gait yesterday, for the first time since the injury on 6 March. Admittedly after 30 minutes the hamstring let me know what it thought of all the exercises that morning and cramped up hard. So that was the end of that walk. Mind you, I'm under no illusions - a good walk yesterday doesn't mean I can't have a rubbish one today. The delightful nature of ACL rehab, aka "two steps forward, one back, two sideways". Watch this space!


Last edited by Ski the Net with snowHeads on Fri 10-08-18 14:11; edited 3 times in total
ski holidays     



Terms and conditions  Privacy Policy