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 Poster: A snowHead
Poster: A snowHead
There wuz I, just about to drop a wedge on the uber new Volkl M5 Mantras . . . Mmmmmm . . . shiny Madeye-Smiley My wee ticker wuz doing flip-flops at the thought of sliding 'em next winter . . . and then I read THIS! For the Spring-Off bash
Quote:
Skis: It really makes sense to be riding proper off-piste skis rather than a so-called 'all-mountain' model.

. . . . 'Barstewards!' Evil or Very Mad

Now wot? The only tool I I know of fer Powder is a snowboard. If I need to get summat fat and flappy wot should I be looking at/for . . . and not next year's kit 'cos if I'm going to have a 2 ski quiver the piste will be treated to a set of Kastle MX Limited (carbon mx 84s) so the fats are going to be from the bargain bin and preferably bloody lightweight.

So wot do you recommend fer the soft stuff (or more likely lumpy crud knowing my luck)? I should be about 85kg by spring, fit for my age, ok to good piste skier. They will be mounted with telemark NTN tech toes and supplemental tech heels.
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 Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
@Masque, not that I'm an expert, but isn't a 100mm ski wide enough for all but the most off of off piste ? Confused
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 Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Timberwolf wrote:
@Masque, not that I'm an expert, but isn't a 100mm ski wide enough for all but the most off of off piste ? Confused


Yep, I'd have thought the Mantra is a proper off piste ski, just not a powder ski. But a powder ski is a very particular type of piste ski with a very limited use for most skiers.
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@Masque, hubby has Dynastar Cham 97s which have been fine for all the off-piste bashes he's done since he got them, with the possible exception of the deepest day on this year's bash.
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 Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
@Masque, well it's the inter-season so lots of bargains about.

Talking just from a Whitedot perspective, and given that we are talking Euro OP not Japow, you could consider R98 in Trad or CarbonLite, the Piste Office has both, in season just closed graphic, at a discount. For a real steal and given that you have an 84 underfoot already you could go wider with the R108, the Piste Office has those in 2016 graphic if you are happy with traditional (CL all sold out) so they should be a very good price. Both skis R98 & R108 were developed with a flat, relatively stiff, tail with a telemarker (on NTN's) as part of the development lead team.

Plenty of other good stuff about to be fair. Buying from Jon though you know you'll get the 'full package', drop him a PM he may have other suggestions from Scott etc.
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@Masque, if you snowboard off piste, any ski is going to be a compromise. wink

For jaunts 'off le side' the Volkls should be fine. If it's a no friends day, take the board.

I use my Kendos in this way, but always almost wish I had chosen my board. For a hardpack/icy piste day, nothing beats skis.
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 Then you can post your own questions or snow reports...
Then you can post your own questions or snow reports...
Hells Bells wrote:
@Masque, hubby has Dynastar Cham 97s which have been fine for all the off-piste bashes he's done since he got them, with the possible exception of the deepest day on this year's bash.

I have the Cham 97s and I overpower them and your hubby weighs less than Ben so he'll be happy on them, I loath t'boogers. Unless I'm assbackward on my heels the tips just fold up and brake.

The Mantras are 94 and considered an all mountain ski so I would have to go max length to get float and that makes them more of a handful in bumps etc but lovely for screaming down the smooth stuff.
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 After all it is free Go on u know u want to!
After all it is free Go on u know u want to!
@midgetbiker, good idea, I like keeping things in 'the family'. I do need some rise in the tail as I like to ski and tele switch (still crap . . . but getting better, can link half a dozen turns now before going nuts over tete)
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@Masque, I have Mantras (old ones.. ) mounted NTN (Outlaws). My experience is that they ski somewhat softer than when mounted alpine. I don't have the energy or the resources for a powder specific tele-ski, but the Mantras let me tele pretty much anywhere...does that help ?
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@Masque, i thought they were 95 just to be pedantic.

You have too much kit.

Mantras fine in anything but heli ski style powder. (Mind you, I did put my GSs in a heli once. Tiring.)
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@Masque, as this is going to be your first time skiing totally off-piste for a week, why not hire them and find out what suits you? Less luggage to take back and forward across the Atlantic and you can then ski in whatever the instructors/guides think may be suitable for you? There's a very good ski shop in Monetier that others have used.
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 And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
@Hells Bells, that means boots too and I've the gnarly bash the week before.
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 So if you're just off somewhere snowy come back and post a snow report of your own and we'll all love you very much
So if you're just off somewhere snowy come back and post a snow report of your own and we'll all love you very much
@Masque, MTFU and go wide

I'm surprised that the more evangelical peeps on here are not here telling you just that!

When I switched back to skiing from snowboarding after many a year I too went with Mantras and I did not have piste skis, and soon went up in width.

You already have piste skis so no excuse.

Many of us including my Mrs ski on the piste with skis ranging from 104 upwards, my OH skied 90% of the season on her 110's and I on my 108's.

Modern day skis around the 110 can handle most piste* conditions and then excel in crud to off piste etc

Quite a few people I know ski on Rossi Soul 7s and there are loads of deals around for those

*maybe not high pressure ice hard pack you'll be on your piste skis anyway
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 You know it makes sense.
You know it makes sense.
Pray for the the off-piste bash to be like 2018, join the snowboarder group and bring a snorkel
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 Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Not sure I understand the Cham 97 objections. I'm sure I pack a bit more than Masque and they skied just fine when I demoed the 2.0 in softish conditions both on and offpiste, in bumps etc. Not tele but still a good middle of the road jack of all trades. I wouldn't go for a Rossi if you overpower them.

Basically you are advertising you want chargey and 110ish which means R108, Kastle 105BMX HP whatever Head have repalced the Monsters with (horrible skis the old ones IMV). But I think it might be a heck of a lot easier to just ski the Cham 97s and tone down the aggression.
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 Poster: A snowHead
Poster: A snowHead
@Dave of the Marmottes, huh? I found them flappier than a flappy thing and could never understand the love for the Chams, and we are somewhat different in stature...
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
probably would be flappy once you'd wrapped them round a snow cannon as per standard MO...
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 Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Is like being compared with like - aren't there two versions of the Cham 97, the High Mountain touring version being lighter and more flappy (technical term)?
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@DB, I'm pretty sure I had the standard version, and more than one model year just to see if I'd been having a bad day previously. I don't think I was.
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
under a new name wrote:
@Masque, i thought they were 95 just to be pedantic.


Just to be 'pedanticer' looks like they are 96mm wide, but hey what's 1-2mm between friends?

http://blistergearreview.com/gear-reviews/2018-2019-volkl-mantra-m5

http://www.skiessentials.com/Chairlift-Chat/2019-Volkl-M5-Mantra-Ski-Review/

Is it possible some people prefer their sticks harder / softer?

I'm agreeing with Hellsbells on this one, which must be a first. Madeye-Smiley
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DB wrote:


Is it possible some people prefer their sticks harder / softer?



Yep - that's fine but I don't really hold with the idea that a recreational skier is really overpowering an average 100mm size ski. Some skis feel "flappy" by virtue of the rocker design while holding up just fine once you get the tip in contact with the snow. The only answer really is to demo at every opportunity to work out what works for you and doesn't and/or improve your ability to adapt between skis.
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Then you can post your own questions or snow reports...
@Dave of the Marmottes, I think there is a point where skis are too soft/bendy. People of both our “build” riding some particularly soft skis will just bend them in half and that obviously means you don’t feel supported when you lean forward. Balance is important when skiing, so it’s key you have a ski which you can lean into without it just folding over.

But yes rocker design can make things feel flappy which are actually fine. I found Directors too flappy til I actually took them in the soft stuff at which point I found them great.
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 After all it is free Go on u know u want to!
After all it is free Go on u know u want to!
It's a long time since I skied with @Masque must be around 15 years ago in Schladming. Not sure if it's his skiing style or current weight (or both) that's overpowering the skis.

As a ski tourer I used to ski on touring skis but now I use allmountain skis with touring bindings because much of the time I'm skiing tracked offpiste & crud. It wasn't so much I was overpowering the touring skis more that the tips just got knocked about a lot in those sort of conditions.
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Masque speaking as a Mantra fan, and based on DBs reports above you will not be making any mistakes by going Mantra.
You know you want to do it...
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@DB, that was my first week on skis (my one day a year earlier had snapped my Achilles), I was on my first owned skis, Atomic SX10S supercross, gawd I loved those skis, long nose with a fat shovel and a very springy short tail. Ludicrously easy to snap onto an edge and hold it on any sort of ice crap . . . you did need to keep your suspension supple, but when you did the boogers would never lose grip. I was lighter and fitter then by a big margin (but getting back there now). Technically I'm a better skier now but not yet back to any sort of endurance to stay in full control of my muscle responses over an extended run and I'm currently just UNDER (at long last) 100kg. YAY!

As for the Chams, they're fine if you stay fairly central and rail them and in tele mode quite nice as long as you keep the trailing leg under control as that fat shovel can develop a mind of its own. In deep powder or slush I really have to be back on my heels otherwise the nose tries to submarine and that long rocker bends back and puts the brakes on. On piste if you really try to get forward and aggressive they start to get a bit hooky and unpredictable in medium and short turns (had me eating snow on a couple of occasions when I'm still looking down the hill and my feet are heading for the trees. I'll keep 'em for rock hopping but they don't bring even a smidgeon of smile to my face at any time (they were a free replacement for my beloved 13/14 Mantras a ski tech destroyed Evil or Very Mad ).

Then there's the thought of a Kastle Quiver . . . mmmmmm Toofy Grin . . . Can you hear my wallet wimpering Twisted Evil

@Steilhang, still tempted to go the 'one Mantra to rule them all' route . . . But at the same time the MX84 in carbon are the mutt's third nut for mixed piste madness and a pair of sloppy fat lads from the bargain bin could be real fun in the soft stuff. . .

There is an alternative though Confused Take the Teleboard and one snowshoe and really f*** with some heads Twisted Evil Twisted Evil Twisted Evil
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@Masque, ....I have to say it...that paragraph on the Chams is one of the best ski reviews I have ever read ... and I’ve read a hell of a lot of them. Ski mags are frightened of describing skis entirely accurately for fear of never being able to get anything to review anything ever again. Of course you are describing a very personal experience - and that means an interaction of your skills with the qualities of the skis - but it’s brilliantly written.
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 And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
This is interesting as I'm 6'2 and 110 kg and not known for being gentle on my skis I've got the first version of the Cham 97 (184 long these were the replacement for the pair of 87s I snapped after 3 weeks) and have found them to be bomb proof in all conditions, whether that's GS style at Mach idiot or billygoating around in tight spaces, sure tips get a bit flappy on piste at high speeds but thats to be expected with the rocker profile.
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 So if you're just off somewhere snowy come back and post a snow report of your own and we'll all love you very much
So if you're just off somewhere snowy come back and post a snow report of your own and we'll all love you very much
Quote:

one Mantra to rule them al

Very Happy Very Happy Very Happy Very Happy
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 You know it makes sense.
You know it makes sense.
About the only thing I use my 98mm skis for these days is rocky and icy off piste. Everything else is narrow SL/GS skis or my 120mm Bents which do most things fine and the proper off piste snow amazingly Toofy Grin
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 Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
@Masque,
A ski that feels like a noodle to someone over 100kg might be great for someone at 85kg. I'd keep your money in your wallet until you have dropped the lbs.
From what you are saying it does sound like you are on the high mountain / touring version of the Cham 97. What year of manufacture and colour are they?
In my experience it's normally stiffer skis that nose dive, I'd expect softer rockered skis to float better than the mantra.

It could be that you have more confidence / ride faster on the stiffer skis than on the softer Cham 97 and it's this that gives you more float.

I skied powder best on my 83mm waisted Atomic Blackeyes this season. I lost confidence on my wider skis (98mm Völkl 90eights) as the slighest pressure and I came out of the binding heel, sometimes it clicked back in mid turn other times it stayed in tele mode. (turned out to be cracked binding housing that eventually exploded).

DB skiing 83mm waisted skis in approx 40cm of new dry powder (Feb 2018)


Last edited by Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name: on Thu 24-05-18 16:49; edited 1 time in total
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 Poster: A snowHead
Poster: A snowHead
@Masque, I have the Vantage 90s, and they have transformed my off-piste skiing. But if you want a bit wider.............

http://www.sailandski.co.uk/acatalog/Atomic-Vantage-100-CTI-Skis---Warden-13-Bindings-17-18-36006.html#SID=8873
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 Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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@Masque,
Another possibility is that the bindings are mounted too far forward or the delta angle of the bindings is all wrong for you.
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 Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
I'd often thought that I skied offpiste on skinny skis just fine but thinking back, I would only go offpiste on skinnies if it was really light powder that flowed around my legs like feathers and it didn't matter if I sank in it. Bring on the heavier snow that drags at your skis & legs and something wider is needed. The snow on the gnarbug and sopib was excellent but still not exactly light powder, I'm 90kg and was on 95 mm skis with a 140mm shovel up front and I still had to lean back a lot of the time to keep the tips from sinking & putting the brakes on.
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