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Taking kids out of school - just check the rules first

 Poster: A snowHead
Poster: A snowHead
@debra123, Am I missing something? What does the term dates of private schools in the UDA have to do with this?
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 Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
I loved this quote. .... "He told magistrates he decided to take a family holiday because of problems with his eldest daughter, whose behaviour and school attendance had deteriorated"
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 Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well Derbyshire Council has come up with a solution.

Up to 11 days without a fine as long as you have a 94% attendance record for the previous year, so as long as you are not Tiny Tim Cratchit's parents you should be ok.

A child at my daughters school has a 68% record, but benefits from benefits so no punishment or fine. Poor little sod.
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So back to what the guidelines were before then - that's progress

Seriously smart move to DC and hope many others follow
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Boris wrote:
So back to what the guidelines were before then - that's progress

Seriously smart move to DC and hope many others follow

It's lack of progress surely?

If Councils are basically going to put in their own rules which blatantly go against the central government guidelines/rules then they may aswell abandon the whole thing and we go back once again to the situation where parents do want they want and damage their own and other childrens education.
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I'm just slightly speechless that a school will reward a child who only misses 12/13 days in year by allowing them to miss 11 days the next year. Presumably the 11 days will end up being in addition to the usual number of sick days as well? I wonder how you allow a child to take the 11 days and then tell it that it isn't allowed a day off for sickness.
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Then you can post your own questions or snow reports...
@Layne, if parents don't care they ignore the guidelines anyway. This is just to stop the stupidities of fining me because Cousin Mabel wants to get married on a Friday and my kids are bridesmaids. My children go to school every day, they missed one day for a family reunion in Italy , both high achievers and no long term damage done.

Parents are the primary carers, perhaps they can make these choices. If they persist in bad judgement they are probably failing the children in other areas.
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 After all it is free Go on u know u want to!
After all it is free Go on u know u want to!
@foxtrotzulu, patently not speechless.

It's not a reward, just common sense , and if they are off for 11 days and have a holiday they are not permitted the time next year.

What are your thoughts on employees with long term sickness?
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@Norrin Radd,
Quote:

@foxtrotzulu, patently not speechless.

Indeed not!
Very Happy Very Happy

Quote:

if they are off for 11 days and have a holiday they are not permitted the time next year.
So,they seem to be saying that you are automatically entitled to an extra 11 days each year, every year.


Quote:

What are your thoughts on employees with long term sickness?

I'm not sure I understand the question. If an employee is sick, then they don't come to work until they able to. It's unavoidable. Simple as that.

As for Cousin Mabel, then I'd suggest she doesn't plan her wedding for a Friday during termtime if she particularly wants your children as bridesmaids. I know I've made my views very clear on this subject in the past but if you'll forgive me for restating them.... I don't really have much of a problem with an occasional day (e.g. family reunion in Italy, cousin Mabel's wedding, grandparent's funeral) for exceptional and unavoidable circumstances. I do have a problem with absences that are not exceptional/unavoidable. E.g. a week's skiing during termtime because it's less crowded/cheaper etc. The issue is that so many parents were tearing the ar@se out of the old guidelines that there was little choice but to try and clamp down and restore the culture of full attendance.




Quote:

What are your thoughts on employees with long term sickness?

What are your thoughts on one of your employees taking their full holiday entitlement and then expecting an extra week because there were only a few days last year on which they failed to turn up even though they weren't sick?
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Norrin Radd wrote:
@Layneif parents don't care they ignore the guidelines anyway.

They have to made to care. Fines were a tool for doing this.

Norrin Radd wrote:
@LayneThis is just to stop the stupidities of fining me because Cousin Mabel wants to get married on a Friday and my kids are bridesmaids. My children go to school every day, they missed one day for a family reunion in Italy , both high achievers and no long term damage done.

Cousin Mabel should have been told Friday is a school day and the kids can not be bridesmaids unless she gets married on a weekend or during school holidays. Mabel does not have to get married on a Friday.

Norrin Radd wrote:
Parents are the primary carers, perhaps they can make these choices. If they persist in bad judgement they are probably failing the children in other areas.

And that is why such rules are needed. You can leave children at the behest of poor parenting. You have to do what you can to prevent this.
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@Thornyhill, ...sudden outbreak of rational thinking in our secondary school too.

Our house not a happy place when we saw that MONDAY 19th December was the last day of school.

(Clarkson voice) 'Stuuuuupid'

Lots of mithering and hand wringing, thoughts of getting kids on a flight on Monday whilst I drive out on the preceding Friday. Lots of discussion about what genuine learning will happen on that Monday. Stupid situation. And I carefully write out my key points for a discussion with the Head, which I know is the first place to start, in order potentially to resolve this.

Suddenly, an announcement from the school that the Monday will be a training day. Well done. Ferry booked for all four of us for Friday pm. On the snow first thing Sunday. Result.
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
@valais2, That sort of stupidity is not confined to state schools. My son's private school breaks up at 12.00 on the Tuesday. I'm normally pleased that they don't do stupid things like have INSET days during term but in this case I'd make an exception.
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@foxtrotzulu, I am in essence in full agreement with you. My grief is with schools inability to deal with repeat offenders on benefits as they cannot be punished.

I on the other hand pay for every ducking school trip known to man, and would be fined in spite of paying for tutors, going to museums and taking my children to interesting/ educational events.

The Abilty of a highly paid administrative assistant to access each case on its merits is preferable. I mean headmaster, but they have become the same.
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 You know it makes sense.
You know it makes sense.
Anyway, change your ethnic group on the questionnaire to Romany and you no longer need to attend and can't be fined.
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 Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
The bonus is you actually improve the demographics results as a byproduct , everyone's a winner.
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 Poster: A snowHead
Poster: A snowHead
ummmm - You mean that not having gypsies attending improves the school demographics? Are you allowed to say that sort of thing these days? Shocked
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 Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
@foxtrotzulu, not at all.

You can get the information about various ethnic groups achievements through the school curriculum.

My children do better than average, so slightly improve the results for Romany.

Nothing racist meant, felt or intended.

Is it what you meant?
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 Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Girls over 11 from traveller back grounds often do not attend school, I can't imagine they are all being fined.

I can't imagine any paying the fines anyway.
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@Norrin Radd, Ah - got it now. I thought it seemed a bit near the knuckle.
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 Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Norrin Radd wrote:
Girls over 11 from traveller back grounds often do not attend school, I can't imagine they are all being fined.

I can't imagine any paying the fines anyway.

My local authority has a document on the subject

https://www.milton-keynes.gov.uk/assets/attach/16360/Attendance%20Advice.pdf

Which I would expect them to enforce.
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And I am sure they do, well enough to tick a box saying they have.

As long as a form is filled in by the school with a letter in a box, job done, and would no doubt consider it 100% achieved.

FOI request?
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 Then you can post your own questions or snow reports...
Then you can post your own questions or snow reports...
Layne wrote:
Boris wrote:
So back to what the guidelines were before then - that's progress

Seriously smart move to DC and hope many others follow

It's lack of progress surely?

If Councils are basically going to put in their own rules which blatantly go against the central government guidelines/rules then they may aswell abandon the whole thing and we go back once again to the situation where parents do want they want and damage their own and other childrens education.


No - they move back to what most schools previously did, which was up to 10-days off when child has greater than 95% attendance. It is obvious that the current guidelines are not working, parents are in many cases just paying the fines as it still works out cheaper for them - hate to think how much money is wasted in the admin of the system.

Damaging to kids education - very much open to debate but for kids who are over 95% I don't think so - nor do I believe it really damages other kids. This whole scheme completely missed the point of addressing the serious cases of truancy where the kids/parents etc just don't care and won't/can't pay any fines. Has IMV just been a ball-ache for parents who can't get time off work in school holidays and for schools who get caught in the middle.

FWIW the report which triggered all this recommended a clarification of the rules around the 10-days holiday in term time not scrapping it completely!

I have now broken my rule not to post in this thread again as it will now no doubt go around in the same circles
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 After all it is free Go on u know u want to!
After all it is free Go on u know u want to!
@Boris, Don't go, this is just getting fun again Very Happy
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@Boris,
Quote:

It is obvious that the current guidelines are not working, parents are in many cases just paying the fines as it still works out cheaper for them
I dare say quite a few may be, but I'm pretty sure I've seen figures suggesting a significant improvement in attendance and a reduction in term-time holidays. (Can't find them at the moment - I'll keep looking)


Quote:

Damaging to kids education - very much open to debate but for kids who are over 95% I don't think so
But surely that implies that the 'extra' 5% / 10 days has no educational vale and, if that's the case then let's shorten the term by ten days.

I could go on, but, as you say, we'll end up going round in circles/
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@foxtrotzulu, trouble is - I'm kind of past caring!

Kids are all at secondary school now and Mrs B and I had always said that we wouldn't take them out for holidays once they were at secondary school. I have requested the odd day which has always been refused under the new rules - I took them out in any case and as I didn't breach LEA guidelines nothing happened.

Don't even get me started on the number of days runner boy has missed last term due to the school entering him into numerous inter-school athletics events across his year and both 6th form years (as he is the best runner in school)
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@foxtrotzulu, arrrggghhhh I can't help myself Toofy Grin Laughing

Trouble is they are applying a blanket rule without any consideration of the child/school/circumstances - which I think there used to be under the old rules of school discretion. BUT accept this depends on school and teachers.

Both my boys just obtained their GCSE Core Science a year early with A* - so personally I'm not convinced that the mid Jan ski trips they took really impacted them.

As I've said - one boy missed 8 days last term alone as the school entered him into running events - do these days missed not have educational value? Obviously not as they were "approved" - note this was just him from year group!!!!!
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 And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
Can't wait to see what my daughter's school say when I tell them I'm taking her to Canada in march to look at properties and schools for her.
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 So if you're just off somewhere snowy come back and post a snow report of your own and we'll all love you very much
So if you're just off somewhere snowy come back and post a snow report of your own and we'll all love you very much
Quote:
Trouble is they are applying a blanket rule without any consideration of the child/school/circumstances - which I think there used to be under the old rules of school discretion.

Under the old rules which it seems we may soon be going back to - parents will have free reign. My wife was a Governor at a junior school and the parents simply didn't abide by the rules. They did what they liked. And there was nothing to stop them. And as I've previously said where possible we need to take away the opportunity for parents to knowingly or unknowingly to take action detrimental to their childs well being.

I was just talking to an Indian chap about road safety. When he first came to this country he felt very restricted and found it all an imposition. But now he's the point of it and is grateful for it.
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 You know it makes sense.
You know it makes sense.
Quote:
Fining parents for taking children out of school in term time in Wales has had no effect on overall absence rates, a review has found.


http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-wales-44054574

Anyone surprised by this - personally I'm not!

Suspect it is same in rest of UK
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 Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
It's £60 for the school, a tiny bit onto the cost of the holiday which still works out cheaper than going in official school holidays - everyone's a winner! Laughing
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@Gordyjh, School doesn't get the money - Council does
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
And it is £60 per parent, per child! So, £240 for our family - I've just paid ours!!! Still much cheaper than the extra cost of going during school holidays though...
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 Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
@tonyswift, Precisely!

@Boris, Council runs the school so that's £60 to the budget, everyone still a winner...

Perhaps I should admit I was frequently late back for the start of the Easter term and I fervently believe that if schools can't teach children to read, write and count in 13 years, the odd day is neither here nor there. Most of school is childcare to allow parents to work.









Sits back with popcorn NehNeh Laughing
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We are going to offer a donation to our school whilst at the same time ask to take them out
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 Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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@FrediKanoute, Good luck!! They are apparently now duty-bound by law to charge if they are out for 10 sessions or more (5 full days)...
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tonyswift wrote:
@FrediKanoute, Good luck!! They are apparently now duty-bound by law to charge if they are out for 10 sessions or more (5 full days)...


Think actual figures and policy is dependent on which education authority you are under. However that is definitely Hampshire’s.
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