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Lightweight AT Boots recommendation

 Poster: A snowHead
Poster: A snowHead
I was just wondering what people would recommend in terms of lightweight AT boots. They need to be be compatible with normal downhill bindings (so no Dynafit).

I am specifically minded to saving weight - both for airline luggage purposes or carrying on a backpack.

I've heard that Scarpa Maestrals are quite good. Anything else?
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 Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Scarpa Maestrales are not compatible with all alpine bindings.


Last edited by Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person on Thu 8-01-15 14:38; edited 2 times in total
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Some boots are compatible with touring, Alpine and Dynafit (tech inserts) bindings (e.g. Dynafit Titan) but tend to be heavy (circa 4 kg per pair) as they have interchangable soles. Touring boot fit is even more critical than that for Alpine ski boots so be sure to try them on for size.
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There are many boots on the market with swappable soles (Technica Cochise, fr'instance) that will work with Dynafit and Alpine bindings.

I think only the K2 Pinnacle will currently work in all bindings without swapping soles?

Most nromal frame touring bindings work with both alpine boots and most dynafit-compatable boots without swapping soles.

Some alpine bindings (Salomon Warden and Marker Lord) work with touring boots without swapping soles.

I don't think you'll find any particularly light boots that will work with normal alpine bindings, as they are all, obviously, aimed at touring... Technica Cochise Pro Light with the alpine sole blocks could be a good choice though.

Scarpa Maestrales and the equivalent only work with tech bindings, frame touring bindings, and the Marker and Salomon bindings I mentioned above.
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
I'm on Scarpa Freedom SL's for this year which have a swappable tech and din sole fitting. Lighter than normal and so far so good.
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Why not get some light weight alpine boots? Full Tilts spring to mind but they prefer narrow feet.
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Quote:

I'm on Scarpa Freedom SL's for this year which have a swappable tech and din sole fitting. Lighter than normal and so far so good.


Ditto. Really nice to ski in.
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altis wrote:
Why not get some light weight alpine boots? Full Tilts spring to mind but they prefer narrow feet.


I know of one person who does as long as he knows he'll be on snow the whole day.
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So you're really after boots with a rockered, rubber sole?

These will probably conform to ISO9523:


Which is not compatible with ISO5355 used for alpine boots:


More info:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ski_boot#Alpine_Touring_.2F_Randon.C3.A9e

Check out the bindings identified by clarky999 above.

..or p'raps you want Apex Boots:
http://apexskiboots.com/the-system


Last edited by You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net. on Wed 7-01-15 14:50; edited 1 time in total
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Get the boots that fit your feet - My feet are hapiest in Dalbello Virus/Sherpa that happen to ski very well and are quite light.

For ALL of those who say touring boots don't work in Alpine bindings, while true in the way that they don't conform to the norm. BUT bar rossignol/look I have managed to get my touring boots into most other bindings, some more easily than others.

BEFORE anyone gets upset at this idea I have many times tested this theory with basic and fancy testing machinies - yes the touring boots mess with the relase settings a bit but if you looked at the numbers for accuracy on most binings and what is acceptable you probably wouldn't ski.

If you are going the DIY route, turn your din down 1 at the toe and keep the heal the same. If they pre relase more often at the toe that with alpine boots, go back up to your normal settings - this is based on more than 1000 days of skiing by me and probaby a hundred thousand combined days of the people who ski in Cham alone.
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ysb33r wrote:
I was just wondering what people would recommend in terms of lightweight AT boots. They need to be be compatible with normal downhill bindings (so no Dynafit).

I have Dynafit Mercury boots and happily use them with alpine bindings on fat powder skis (so, quite heavy skis). I've skied this way for more than 20 weeks without any mishaps.
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
Idris,

The only ski boots I've ever really loved were flexons (think its because I have average width forefoot, narrow heel, fairly chunky calf). I'm in the market for some AT boots so would like to try Sherpa 5/5s. Is there anywhere in Chamonix / St Gervais you'd particularly recommend for fitting them?

Thanks

Jed
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I just cut a section out of my rockered touring boot sole and glued in a spare alpine front sole plate that I cut down. Means that I can use freeride / touring bindings on my fat skis with either my usual boots or lightweight touring boots.
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 You know it makes sense.
You know it makes sense.
jedster wrote:
Idris,

The only ski boots I've ever really loved were flexons (think its because I have average width forefoot, narrow heel, fairly chunky calf). I'm in the market for some AT boots so would like to try Sherpa 5/5s. Is there anywhere in Chamonix / St Gervais you'd particularly recommend for fitting them?

Thanks

Jed



Would try Vieux Campeur in Sallanches - I think they have them in - While the lads in cham are very good at fitting boots they are an opinionated bunch and if you have relatively booring feet (as I have and you describe) I'd head down the valley.
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Anyone tried to hire Alpine skis with touring boots?
I'd expect they either say they are not compatible or get you to sign a disclaimer - experiences of this anyone?
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 Poster: A snowHead
Poster: A snowHead
@DB, I tried to demo some Cochises (the skis) earlier this season at Stubai, but the Blizzard/Technica rep wouldn't let me with Cochise AT soles...
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 Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Quote:

Would try Vieux Campeur in Sallanches - I think they have them in - While the lads in cham are very good at fitting boots they are an opinionated bunch and if you have relatively booring feet (as I have and you describe) I'd head down the valley.


Thanks - I have bought boots from the zoo before so know what you mean Very Happy
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Actually they don't seem to have Sherpas in stock. I'm finding it very hard to find anywhere that does... Still appear on Dalbello website but wonder if they are getting end of line.
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@jedster, I think there is a version of the Lupo coming out with tech fittings - maybe replacing the Sherpa
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ah - that would make sense, thx
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We no longer sell the Virus/Sherpa @Jedster, several simple reasons. One, the metal bar running through the back of the boot reduces primary function, a ski boot is an exoskeleton version of your achilles tendon and this needs elasticity. Secondly the Virus/Sherpa is very low in the cuff and there are several better boots that drive wider skis, there are too several boots lighter and lower if you need to drive narrower skis. There are now a huge choice of boot in this catagory, weight, shape and function offer virtually no comprimise for skiing and we pitch boots based on ski width these days as much as fit. (Fit always being paramount.) Idris, I don't remember you ever coming to buy boots, just trying to re hash a pair of boots given to, our opinions are based on seeing our work be successful or not and listenng to thousands of clients, not just a very opinionated "ONE". We aren't here to wee wee people around, just to enhance their skiing, if maybe you've had a bad experience, maybe something to do with somebody not letting you use all our binding jigs for free for example, one might understand there is more to this. Having never been in to try boots or even discuss it, i would querey the validity of being us opinionated and refer to more a case of being objective about what might be best for our clients. We're not tharapists and can't marry personal biases, community issues and lack of disposable income and expect our clients to be happy. Don't get me wrong, we have often let our clients make choices against our judgement, it never, ever ends well!
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@CH2O,
... but at the time you were selling the Virus/Sherpa boots, did you think they were good i.e. that was your opinion at the time?
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After all it is free Go on u know u want to!
@CH2O,

Thanks for the explanation. Am I right that you are the poster formerly known as SZK Very Happy

If so, my wife and I bought alpine boots from your old place about 8 years ago. And I'd agree with the key line Idris wrote

Quote:

While the lads in cham are very good at fitting boots they are an opinionated bunch


Clearly you guys really know what you are doing and you commit real time and effort to getting the result you are looking for. No corners cut.

My wife has just changed her boots. I'll likely keep mine a good bit longer for using with my stocklis. So clearly they have both been decent purchases. The truth is though that they we have never truly been comfortable in them. Mine have taken multiple weeks of skiing and several shell stretches to be really wearable all day. The first two buckles are completely redundant. Still now if I ski from first lift my feet are getting sore and tired by the end of the day. You guys do like to fit them snug! That is the opinionated bit that chimed with me. The other side of this is that they are the most responsive and precise boots I have ever skied in.

My point here is not that you guys do it wrong but you choose a particular balance between comfort and performance which will not suit everyone. And my impression was that you have a very firm opinion that your balance is the correct one (the opinionated bit!).

I'm clearly a wuss but the performance I get in the morning is offset by my tendency to ski to protect my tired feet in the afternoon. And the fact that if I drop off something to a hard landing and get remotely in the back seat my toes are going to be throbbing for hours. And it becomes wearysome when you need to stand flexed in lift queues to protect your toes Very Happy Personally, I'd settle for a fit that locked my heel down but was comfortable all day even at the cost of a little precision. I actually don't ski as well when my feet start hurting.

I've had 6 pairs of ski boots only one pair has ever fitted that description (most have been poorly fitted, too large and failed to really control my heel). The best ones were the first I ever owned and I lucked into them - walked in, pointed to them on the sale rack, they fitted from the box. They held my feet snugly but comfortably, had nice smooth progressive flex. At the time I didn't know how lucky I was. They were raichle flexons hence my interest in the Dalbellos.

So what do you stock that would fit most like a flexon? I think my issue is that boots that really hold my narrow heel tend to be a bit too low volume round the forefoot but I'm certainly no expert so may be talking out of my behind. Also, do you go for a slight different fit with AT boots? I do worry a bit that a very snug performance fit might take the fun out of a hut to hut trip with long ascent days.

I hope none of this comes across as critical. I respect what you do and would always recommend you guys to someone wanting optimal performance from a ski boot.
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No problems with people investing in older tech, we just don't.
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+1 for the Scarpa Freedoms, skied twice in them this year, no problems so far with the alpine soles.
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+1 for the Scarpa Freedoms, skied twice in them this year, no problems so far with the alpine soles.
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 And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
Performance vs Comfort is a subtle balance. No matter how often we fit boots the non constant is the client. We put the recipe together, cook the ingredients, only the client can say wether the meal is a little spicy or not. We will steer people away from major gafs but remain openminded enough to listen to tour clients once the fitting is finished. We learn a lot in 8 years since you last visited us, albeit in the Footworks days, and readily tell our clients, "See thatbloke/woman sitting next to you that is next, the job will be better for them, as yours is better than the job we did before." We learn something from every client, but are not supple enough to allow our clients preconceived ideas influence what we have learned form other clients. Our opinions represent thousands of square pegs in round holes, one persons opinion is worth nothing, we collate the info from all our clients, one person's experience is no more or less valid than the next.
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I'm happy to listen to opinions from people who really know what they are talking about.
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 You know it makes sense.
You know it makes sense.
I've got Meastrals RS's and really pleased.
Plenty stiff enough on the way down and light and flexable on the way up.
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 Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
jbob wrote:
I'm happy to listen to opinions from people who really know what they are talking about.


The trouble with the job is that the boot fitter can't feel what the client feels in the shop. Unfortunately knowing how to give useful feedback to the fitter is a skill in it's self which most skiers don't get much practice at.

I do think that the way ski boots are sold is pretty odd thing for a multi hundred quid consumer product.

Maybe 3d scanning and printing will enable genuine personalisation at some point in the future. But not in this decade I'd guess.
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 Poster: A snowHead
Poster: A snowHead
Quote:

Performance vs Comfort is a subtle balance. No matter how often we fit boots the non constant is the client


I can see that completely. The other problem is that most of us clients don't buy boots frequently enough to have a good sense of how the fit of a newly fitted boot in the shop transfers into the comfort in use after a week or two on the snow. And when we tell a fitter that a boot feels REALLY tight how does he know how our REALLY compares to others? Not an easy job!
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 Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Most alpine boots with walk mode should do since you are not interested in technical boots. But going technical is probably the only way to reduce weight enough to appreciate the difference - both with boots and bindings. As a compromise you can check boots with swappable soles.
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 Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Just re-read this thread from last season, and there is some real good info in here.
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Hybrid boots? I got some Lange XT 120 last Nov. Fairly lightweight, good flex for hiking, and fine downhill. Use them with Fritschi Pro.
Problem is that in Dec I tried telemarking and ended up buying the whole caboodle. Scott Voodoo boots are again pretty light and just do everything. 13 weeks on teles and I've done everything I'd do on Alpine.
Also understand that I can use Voodoo boots in Fritschi?
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Scarpa Maestrale RS. three seasons in them, they are brilliant. Don't worry about normal ski binding compatibility too much.
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irbis wrote:
Scarpa Maestrale RS. three seasons in them, they are brilliant. Don't worry about normal ski binding compatibility too much.


Cannot even get them on my feet.
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...retrieves thread out of hibernation...

FWIW I now have used a pair K2 Pinnacles for the last three seasons with Tyrolia Ambition bindings. Beautiful to use on-piste and off-piste, BUT they are heavy and I would not use them for multi-day touring. They're good enough for skinning up for the day or just a morning before work, but you start feeling it as the day wears on.

They are a joy to walk in on the way to a resort or around a resort. Maybe one thing why they fit so well for me is because when I bought them I had custom insoles moulded for my wonky feet.

I'm officially putting them to resort use now, and investing in a pair on proper AT boots that will go with the Ambition bindings.
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