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Whatsitcalled.. jumping the edge change?

 Poster: A snowHead
Poster: A snowHead
It seems like most moves in snowboarding have a really odd name of some sort, butter, stalefish, tindy, you get my drift. What I want to know is, is there a term for jumping the edge change in a carve?

As an example see at 0:58 and 1:02 in Korua Shapes 2..


http://youtube.com/v/MGjy8fojhr8?t=58s

And the obvious follow on question, how on earth do I learn to do that? Very Happy It looks like an Ollie just before the transition? I can carve reasonably well enough, but my Ollie is still more of a twitch in the snow than a jump! rolling eyes
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 Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
You'really going to eat so much snow at the eosb Twisted Evil Twisted Evil Twisted Evil I'll tell you when we get there (note to self, don't forget cameras)
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
No doubt! But at least there'll be a lot of it..for soft landing and a lot of snowheads to point and laugh snowHead

Given your tips helped me get started 2 years ago, I'm expecting some top tips from you now..no pressure Toofy Grin
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At 0:58 I'd say that he is taking air off the terrain at the point of the transition - see how the slope drops away.
At 1:02 you can see him crouch then extend then pull in the landing gear.
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 Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
In certain regions of Swiss and SudTirol forward stance carving off the tail never died.

Just because brits on a weeks hols bought into the BASI market this never mattered elsewhere or in the euro alpine regions .

You need buckets of flexibility/ROM or rather it helps alot something Mu is flexible like a cat although he has a more duck stance .


Last edited by Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do. on Fri 2-02-18 16:21; edited 3 times in total
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@philwig, cheers. I'm going to give crouch-extend-retract a try. In my mind I'm just thinking jump before where I'd normally roll the edge change, and hope for the best! Very Happy

@Tirol 164, interesting, are you talking about hardboot alpine snowboarding stance?
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Tirol 164 wrote:
In certain regions of Swiss and SudTirol forward stance carving off the tail never died just because brits on a weeks hols bought into the BASI market this never mattered elsewhere or in the euro alpine regions .


Which regions? I've been around there for the past couple of seasons, and while I've seen plenty of people on gear that looks like it could be fun to carve (hard boots / soft boots with euro stances / monocarvers) - I've not seen anybody doing anything better than basic skidded turns on them. Such a disappointment!
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After all it is free Go on u know u want to!
Are you giving them instruction ?
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jiagedaping wrote:
Which regions? I've been around there for the past couple of seasons, and while I've seen plenty of people on gear that looks like it could be fun to carve (hard boots / soft boots with euro stances / monocarvers) - I've not seen anybody doing anything better than basic skidded turns on them. Such a disappointment!

Well what he said - it's out there. I'm laughing at the BASI comment, which I can't improve upon.

Sölden and resorts around there (eg Ischgl) get German/Austrian guys who ride extremely well. Most of them will be on race boards & hard boots. It's not uncommon to find the odd World Cup rider there. If you go when there's a strong presence then the snowboarders will be the fastest people on the hill.

Skidding? The shame of it.
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Solden the place then? Never saw any when I did a season there either :/

I do want to rent something carvey and have a go though. One of the shops up here has a selection of F2 race boards and hardbooting gear - I'll do my very best not to skid!
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There may be other places. The Intersport place on the right as you drive towards the village has race boards - Glanzer Sports, probably (although there are lots of them). That's probably the one you're thinking of. They have an end of season session there where you can demo race gear from Oxcess/ Kessler etc, which is how I know about it.

That said, you can carve lots of soft boot boards too of course, as per that video..
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
Robin
To answer your question .
No not referring to 45-60 degree hardboard or alpine angles but as Philw notes in the Yearning for turning with Mu,s crew for Korua some are running forward angle narrow stances .
Korua actually states that using forward angle with a narrow stance works with its boards of course you could argue its a sales speil or just look at the video series its up to you!

I guess people cant even see it !
Its not easy to see unless you know to look at the rear foot and the rapid scene change filming doesnt help.

In all this ,personally its less to do with narrower stance width and forward angles first because foremost if the rider is not highly flexible..... your going to have to gain that flexibility physically if you expect to excel .
Some of the riders in the series are more negative rear foot and still use a very aggressive forward driving ,hard board style this takes "exceptional ankle flexion" which is visable.

If you want it enough you can aim for it and work towards it.... the air transitions would follow.

No one can sell this snowboard specific flexion hence forward stance needs are quiet physical .
This is IMO (partly or largely) what killed off this forward carving market which is mostly short term holiday makers and not alpine sportsman or aspiring committed sportsman.

As in surfing, the sportsman or those that want the best that mountains can provide, will often seek out solitude, as crowds are a virus, a complete disease.
Carving needs room so high season herds of 1 weekers are not the time and place to cut the fall line at 90 degrees locked in a carve .

With this aspect of forward riding you can still change stance angles up for different riding disaplines its just people say you must do this or do that ?
In surfing no one mentions your foot positions, nothing has to be this or that .
Ask yourself this...Look at the fun they are having .... do you think any of the Swiss Korua crew care what others believe ...thats dynamic alpine carving... go get some if you want it .
Its not going to ever go away....just like a surfers bottom turn wont ever go away .


http://youtube.com/v/Pn-VV8JMgiM&list=PLzA5mi4A-xbg4J4j_gW4AqT8ARh9CIe9_&index=3


Last edited by And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports. on Wed 31-01-18 12:01; edited 1 time in total
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@Robin Agogo, we're wandering away from your question but that does have relevancy. It's all about keeping your edge(s) engaged while you move the centre of pressure along it from nose to tail during the carved turn. Because we are able to torque our tool independent of where we insert our mass it is really easier for us to "jet" our turns out of the carve.

I'll talk you through it at the eosb but it boils down to learning to 'feel' how you can change the way your edge engages with the snow surface and practice, practice, practice . . . try, fail . . . try, fail . . . try, maybe . . . try, fail . . . Ooooo that feels good Shocked . . . try fail . . . . AND REPEAT wink
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Tirol 164 wrote:
http://youtube.com/v/Pn-VV8JMgiM&list=PLzA5mi4A-xbg4J4j_gW4AqT8ARh9CIe9_&index=3

THAT is not just sweet lines but also great vid editing . . . BUT both have a loooooooong history of ballsingitup wink before getting it right . . .


. . . practice makes perect wink
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 Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
I already have a looooooong history of ballsing up... must be due for a 'get it right' moment sometime...

@Robin Agogo, deffo give that whole ' crouch-extend-retract ' thing a go. I've tried it a few times and it is in there somewhere... watch for your backward lean though or you'll go shooting out of the turn.
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 Poster: A snowHead
Poster: A snowHead
If you stand both feet in the centre of a cambered directional board it will bend/flex tightening the sidecut .

If you stand 60cm feet apart it will bend less and may require extra emphasis on pedalling torsional control .

The narrow forward stance will get air transitions so is relavant although as Philw says lifting the landing gear is adding emphasis and terrain does too .
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Cheers all! I'm relatively happy with the carving side of things, though the heel edge needs some more fine tuning to stop washing out the end of the turns, and "jet" out instead. More practice Very Happy

While I work on that, I'll throw some ' crouch-extend-retract ' in and see where I land...
in a broken heap maybe
Toofy Grin

@Tirol 164, on stance angles, I was reading Ryan Knapton's efforts to try and master heel-side eurocarving , in soft boots, with a -15/15 duck stance, which is exactly my setup. I'm nowhere near there, obviously, but it was an interesting read. http://forums.bomberonline.com/topic/45068-softboot-duck-foot-heelside-ec-help-lol/
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Thats a real good link Robin .
I cant relate to 15/15 other than for true twin switch riding etc

When you want to carve forwards aggressively you need to change it up forwards in the rear foot and run boards with setback, bit of taper is good, straighter sidecuts and the board needs firmer torsional flex .

If I was you I would stay in one camp if ride time is limited, relise your limitations and enjoy it but dont confuse forward angle narrow stance and a driving low aggressive carving stance with any of the 15/15 truetwin switch style .

Both riding styles are chalk and cheese .
Knaptons trying so hard he is asking for help so if he is facing the realities of 15/15 he needs a rethink long term and is in a prime position at Donek .

He can pursue 15/15 carving thats fine but the guy could just run forwards on directional gear and take on a new promotional challange which would sell soft boot carvers for Donek.
He is not getting any younger or better looking spinning and buttering about .

Seems a very committed helpful chap with awesome strenght and flexibility that one can only envy .... it wouldnt surprise me if he backstops the 15/15 twin series youtube thing and perhaps engineers a new forward angle narrow stance series in the future ?
This with sponsership from Donek race boards help could bring him full circle .

Those bomber guys are on it he has gone to them for help make no mistake he is paving a hard road , they can do analysis and are quite serious .

My answer is buy a quiver increase your ride time then you have choices .
Perhaps setup a mild tapered directional with a forward stance..... check out Wolken from Korua ,Blauvelt and Terjes stances out in the whitelines list .
https://whitelines.com/snowboard-gear/set-up-maintenance/pro-snowboarder-stances-binding-angles.html#3FKx3AeADsbtZM0M.97

Many others running mild negitive rear foot angles like De La Rue and Stephan Maurer who are very close to zero ie -3 or -6
Florian Orley of the fwt used to run 0 degrees on the rear foot he and Mitch tolderer would spin 176cm boards in alaska many years ago
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As Tirol pointed out, Korua are clear:
"We recommend to ride the Korua Trenchdigger board with positive, steeper binding angles than your usual board and a slightly narrower stance to let the board flex nicer when riding."
And you can see how they're riding in the video. What's old is new again.

As Tirol suggests, a hard core of European race-oriented riders aren't surprised.

Korua seems to be a finance-backed Euro company disruptively bringing the joy of the turn back from the far east. It's all about timing, but they seem to be doing it pretty well.
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 Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
@Robin Agogo, The turns you mention are called dolphin turns from what I know.
The vid has a decent looking progression up to them.


http://youtube.com/v/QhUaN9L3xlg
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/\ i'm not sure what that is but its ugly as hell! dolphin turn lol

popping out of carve's is viciously difficult, as philw pointed out way above, the first one is done when the ground falls away so isnt a great example, the best one in that first video that i could see is at 3.18.

i learnt them last season, and i can say that its still one of the most difficult things to do properly

its basically done by carving the turn really hard and then just as you exit the turn you un-weight the board and move it to the opposing edge before laying it back down on the snow. moving the board underneath you subtly in the air at high speed is really **** hard though!

the first few times you get that kick out of the exit turn is really surprising, its got some real power behind it and i'm only on a mid flex board. something like the ones in the video would probably kill me lol
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Hmm, can see how you'd do them... just can't quite see why
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Good grief Shocked Shocked Shocked an ugly ollie at the bum end of a smeared turn is about as pretty or as useful as a boobs onna polar bear.

The OP vid showed a hard carved turn with a progressive transition of mass from nose to tail letting the board jet up (first time with a bit of terrain help) the harder part is upper body transition unless you're doing short turns with absorption and cross-under
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auntie masque wrote:
... an ugly ollie at the bum end of a smeared turn is about as pretty or as useful as a boobs onna polar bear....

That does seem marvelously ugly and irrelevant. Like some ski organisation tried to understand how snowboards work and didn't understand the basic concept.
I suppose you could use that as a "drill" to learn what not to do.
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@philwig, @auntie masque, I remember watching a level 3 instructor requirements video that showed the nice clean turns with ollies/pops to transition edges, of course now I can't find the video anywhere.
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@AussieInMancland, that last video doesn't show a "nice clean turn" . What @Robin Agogo, is looking for is the ability to contol a rock solid carve throught the turn whilst 'winding up' the tail to 'jet' or lift the board into the air. The hardest part to get right is to have enough energy loaded into the board to let you move your body mass forward and across the board to enable a landing straight into an opposite turn carve.
He's not the only one that'll need a LOT of practice to get right. I'm still trying to find a binding setup that'll work with this bum leg Evil or Very Mad
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 And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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@eddiethebus, yup, that's the move, and you're right it's a tough one to get consistent. . . But when it comes right snowHead snowHead snowHead
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Richard_Sideways wrote:
Hmm, can see how you'd do them... just can't quite see why

'Co's it's better than sex and half as painful/expensive wink
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@auntie masque, yer the video I linked was a bit poo-poo looking, it wasn't the example of a smooth demonstration that I found on youtube once.

In the OPs video at 1:02 it looks to me like an ollie but from a much deeper squat than the video I linked, also landing on the new edge straight rather than rotating into a skid.

In the video I was trying to find it was an instructor riding requirements video which showed something much closer to OPs video. They demonstrated bigish radius carves with a small ollie as the transition onto the new edge.
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 Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
It's just a little hop guys. Any gear, any binding angles. Bags of style from the Korua dudes though.

Make it a 180 to go for clean toe-to-toe carves, or (mucho respect!) heel-to-heel. Only counts if you spin it hardways though!

Go for a 3 for a proper challenge!
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 Poster: A snowHead
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Dolphin turns are actually a pretty good drill (and look awesome when done well) but that video is a terrible demo. The pop should be across the fall-line, not down it!!
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
By the way, here's a couple of BASI riders getting all robotic and held back by their duck stances. One's even got his trainer's uniform on.... wink


http://youtube.com/v/MHdSCoTNwUo

See also volumes 2 & 3:


http://youtube.com/v/Db1ZUSDCogw

http://youtube.com/v/EEzzdwhcSnw
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