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Ratio of boarder to skiers

 Poster: A snowHead
Poster: A snowHead
If you want to Board "Then Board"

If you want to ski "Then ski"

As long as you are enjoying it, the mountains are big enough for everyone.

As for ratio's who the hell knows for sure, i'm to busy enjoying myself to count, besides the week before xmas i only saw approx 50 people the whole week.

It was bliss
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 Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
I am confused Puzzled

Am I a frustrated boarder or a frustrated skier? Keep changing my mind.....depending on the snow conditions s Laughing
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 Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
just back from an amazing day at Glenshee & there were an extraordinary amount of boarders out.
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Richard_Sideways wrote:
Well, I've been riding for 18 years and still learn stuff and still have plenty to learn too. Watched a video of me riding the other week and was left wondering WHY the hell my trailing knee was doing some weirdness which I'm pretty sure I hadn't asked it to do? Puzzled


Nothing like 2 minutes of video "evidence" wink
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 Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Most happy to be out of fashion and off doing stuff nobody else is interested in Smile
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Noticed far less boarders in flaine! There seems to be a decrease , still boarders but not as many as a few years ago
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I looked at the live cam of the combettes chair in Les Arcs and saw only one person come down in the few minutes I was watching. So based upon this small sample the ratio of boarders to skiers is 1:0, in other words 100% snowboarders
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 After all it is free Go on u know u want to!
After all it is free Go on u know u want to!
@johnE, Fake news!
I havenít seen any boarders ALL DAY! Therefore they donít exist.
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
Lots of different numbers being quoted on an ad-hoc basis. A concrete piece of data I have is that I work occasionally as an ski instructor in a resort. The snowsport school has about 40 instructors of which 3 teach snowboarding, but two of these are ski instructors who happen to also have some snowboard skills and they probably spend more time teaching skiing than snowboarding. The rest are ski instructors of which one occasionally teaches telemark. I can snowboard as well as ski, but I have never been needed to help out with boarding. Demand isn't heavy and the boarding work is about 5% of the turnover of the school. And in terms of numbers of pupils it's an even smaller percentage because a lot of skiing lessons are group lessons whereas snowboard lessons are now only offered as private individual lessons due to low demand. I think when the one full-time snowboard instructor quits there will be a situation where snowboarding which be covered by other instructors who dabble in a bit of snowboarding. There simply won't be the work for snowboard specialists.

It's kind of sad because snowboarding is a lot of fun and I certainly enjoy getting a board out once in a while, but it's simple economics. Same in sports shops. It's really obvious in the sports shops I frequent that snowboarding is a smaller and smaller element of their business, with either no snowboarding stock at all or only a very meagre line up of products.
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Nonsense debate. There will always be boarders and its relative popularity will fluctuate. I think it's clear that commercially it's in a dip at the moment and that it probably has been on a downward curve for the past decade or so influenced by no longer being the disruptive sport and ski design catching up so that hack skiers can now do what hack boarders used to be able to do. I suspect based on what I see there are 2 core demographics - the 40+ old schoolers (people old enough to remmber who Craig Kelly was) and the twentysomething seasonnaire/weekend warrior types.

I look forward to retirement when I can spent all winter in a resort and be able to pick my days to board without carrying multiple sets of gear or worrying about crappy hardpack groomer days.
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
I might be the only boarder left.... time to procreate.
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 And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
morh wrote:
I might be the only boarder left.... time to procreate.


Looks as though snowboarding may be the recessive gene - make sure it's another boarder you choose, else your little swimmers will only become little skiers...
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 So if you're just off somewhere snowy come back and post a snow report of your own and we'll all love you very much
So if you're just off somewhere snowy come back and post a snow report of your own and we'll all love you very much
@morh, careful now! All that sitting around in the snow cools ones junk to dangerously potent levels...
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 You know it makes sense.
You know it makes sense.
hyperkub wrote:
Lots of different numbers being quoted on an ad-hoc basis. A concrete piece of data I have is that I work occasionally as an ski instructor in a resort. The snowsport school has about 40 instructors of which 3 teach snowboarding, but two of these are ski instructors who happen to also have some snowboard skills and they probably spend more time teaching skiing than snowboarding. The rest are ski instructors of which one occasionally teaches telemark. .


you could argue, certainly in france that this is part of the problem. the standard of riding that esf instructors display is largely laughable. given better instruction more newbie snowboarders might actually stick with it.
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 Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
eddiethebus wrote:
hyperkub wrote:
Lots of different numbers being quoted on an ad-hoc basis. A concrete piece of data I have is that I work occasionally as an ski instructor in a resort. The snowsport school has about 40 instructors of which 3 teach snowboarding, but two of these are ski instructors who happen to also have some snowboard skills and they probably spend more time teaching skiing than snowboarding. The rest are ski instructors of which one occasionally teaches telemark. .


you could argue, certainly in france that this is part of the problem. the standard of riding that esf instructors display is largely laughable. given better instruction more newbie snowboarders might actually stick with it.


This is also the reason that there are stand alone snowboard schools. I've usually chosen to have lessons from somewhere that specialises in snowboard instructing, rather than having a "ski instructor who happen to also have some snowboard skills and they probably spend more time teaching skiing than snowboarding"...
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 Poster: A snowHead
Poster: A snowHead
^ This. We had ESF 'teach' snowboarding to a beginner snowboarder and damn near drove him out of the sport. Cancelled the rest of his week with them, switched over to a dedicated snowboarding school and he was happily cruising blues by the end of the week and turning well.

I'll admit I'm fretting a wee bit at the moment over Jnr. He's prebooked in with Evolution down in Tignes at Easter for a week. Originally was going to ski, but now wants to snowboard. Their levels for snowboarding are very broad, Beginners never having done it before, intermediate, confident of doing linked turns on blues... problem is Jnr is somewhere between the 2 at the moment. Plus he's only 8 and they don't do specific kids classes.
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 Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Richard_Sideways wrote:

I'll admit I'm fretting a wee bit at the moment over Jnr. He's prebooked in with Evolution down in Tignes at Easter for a week. Originally was going to ski, but now wants to snowboard. Their levels for snowboarding are very broad, Beginners never having done it before, intermediate, confident of doing linked turns on blues... problem is Jnr is somewhere between the 2 at the moment. Plus he's only 8 and they don't do specific kids classes.


Not a problem shirley - with all those Sideways genes plus the benefit of yoof he'll be up with the intermediates in a day or he'll renounce the darkside and get back to blitzing around on the sticks of shame.
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 Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Boarding was not invented when I started skiing, however may take it up as a 'learning experience' in a bid to help prevent Alzheimers snowHead
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twoodwar wrote:
Boarding was not invented when I started skiing, however may take it up as a 'learning experience' in a bid to help prevent Alzheimers snowHead


Problem with that strategy is you need enough memory loss not to worry about osteoporosis or that last heelside slam.
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 Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Quote:

All that sitting around in the snow cools ones junk to dangerously potent levels...

Ha! At least one of the J clan was the direct result of my being let off the leash for a week's off-piste riding in Courchevel!


Quote:

you could argue, certainly in france that this is part of the problem. the standard of riding that esf instructors display is largely laughable. given better instruction more newbie snowboarders might actually stick with it.

Too damn right. I can still remember my 'Debutante' snowboard sessions with ESF, and the excruciating pain in my front knee that came from being told to continually twist around to face forwards. Sad
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tomj wrote:
Quote:

All that sitting around in the snow cools ones junk to dangerously potent levels...

Ha! At least one of the J clan was the direct result of my being let off the leash for a week's off-piste riding in Courchevel!




Giving the milkman a clear run that week?
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Quote:

Giving the milkman a clear run that week?


Toofy Grin Toofy Grin Toofy Grin
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 After all it is free Go on u know u want to!
After all it is free Go on u know u want to!
I think fat skis have had the biggest impact. Boarding was always better than skiing on powder in the good 0or days but fat skis now mean the two plank brigade can float like the nest of them.
I also think that much smaller lift queues have also put things in favour of the skier. Back in the day, there was pretty much always quite a queue at most lifted less you were lucky giving the boarder I. Your group time to unbuckle etc....
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Yeah fat skis pretty much even the game and feeling in pow, you've got to be good to get the same sort of slashbacks - not sure I'm there yet. Boarding definitely still has the edge in the sort of breakable crust which is tailsucking nervousness on skis but a bulldozing treat on a board. Plus given I always take more diggers on a board kinda helpful you can roll over them and pop back up.
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eddiethebus wrote:
hyperkub wrote:
Lots of different numbers being quoted on an ad-hoc basis. A concrete piece of data I have is that I work occasionally as an ski instructor in a resort. The snowsport school has about 40 instructors of which 3 teach snowboarding, but two of these are ski instructors who happen to also have some snowboard skills and they probably spend more time teaching skiing than snowboarding. The rest are ski instructors of which one occasionally teaches telemark. .


you could argue, certainly in france that this is part of the problem. the standard of riding that esf instructors display is largely laughable. given better instruction more newbie snowboarders might actually stick with it.


The be fair, the two "part-timers" have instructor qualifications in snowboard and ride pretty well. But obviously lack of instructors will impact on the numbers taking up boarding just as lack of customers will lead to instructors not being rehired due to lack of work. It's a chicken and egg situation.
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Snow board instructing... where I've worked with ski schools in BC snowboard instructors have always been required to ski too.

Another factor is that snowboarders simply take less tuition than skiers. Hence whilst I'm sure demand for snowboard lessons has dropped with the demographics, it's not a metric you can use without taking that into account.

--
Powder... the newer skis have revolutionised powder for skiers. First fat skis, then reverse camber, have been the basis for huge growth in some back country businesses. The technology makes it all much more accessible.

I spent some time the other week in wind crust with a bunch of skiers, and I was reminded of how different that would have been years ago . They probably would have simply not ridden it back then. Independent leg action is going to make it harder for skiers. In the same way it makes moguls easier for them, that's not going to change.

The "slashy" thing... I think that may be partly the way skiers look at a slope. I can do skier-turns on my board but I have to put a lot of piloting into it for that, and it doesn't feel natural. I look for the terrain, and I want to get my feet above my head whenever I can. Sometimes a skier will follow me in that, but mostly they're doing these little skier turns in a straight line slowly down the fall-line. I'm not slagging skiing, I'm more wondering how much of that difference is history and attitude and how much the technology.
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 And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
Quote:

difference is history and attitude and how much the technology.


...and pair of skis, no matter how fat, is never going to give you that surfing feeling.
Also do new skis feel as good in slush a board does? I love a bit of poor man's powder on my board.


Quote:

Another factor is that snowboarders simply take less tuition than skiers.


+1
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So if you're just off somewhere snowy come back and post a snow report of your own and we'll all love you very much
Concrete figure for 2016-17 season in Sweden. 8% of alpine snowsport participants were on a snowboard. That is a little higher than the 5% of snowsport school turnover for snowboarding I quoted. Yes, that could be because snowboarders take less instruction. But it could also simply reflect the changing demographic - there are few younger beginners, with a lot of snowboarders in the 40+ bracket (who would tend not to take many lessons since they can usually already ride).
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 You know it makes sense.
You know it makes sense.
Quote:

Another factor is that snowboarders simply take less tuition than skiers


Cor... where was THAT advice when I was taking the comically massive number of lessons I did... Confused
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 Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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leggyblonde wrote:


...and pair of skis, no matter how fat, is never going to give you that surfing feeling.
Also do new skis feel as good in slush a board does? I love a bit of poor man's powder on my board.


Yep - get the right sized skis and corn/slush is a delight - long past when most punters have gone home moaning about it being "too slushy" & bonus on skis you can get across those really draggy isothermic flats.

Re phil's point on line choice - I think there is a cultural legacy in skiing, in part related to outdated/past instruction and the concept of what "proper" ski technique is which leads some skiers into a mentality of "I will do what I have been taught/ whatever I put together long ago as my punter homebrew way to ski". Because the learning, habit acquiring patterns aren't quite as "freestyle" as snowboarding and terrain progression has traditionally been very much piste-harder piste-steeper piste - a little bit of off piste off the side rather than - yep I'll go wherever this does constrain thinking a bit in some skiers.

I think I ski more creative lines as a result of doing a lot of boarding. Of course, when you see nu skool skiers or those that have grown up on twin tips/fats/rockers they ski very diffferently to "trad" skiers from straighlining mogul fields to buttering cat tracks and powersliding. All of which gets a tut-tut from the most conservative skiers who see "carving" as teh alpha and omega.

Of course the penalty for doing lots of skiing is resenting all the admin involved in boarding and feeling a bot freaked out when you first get back on a busy piste re the heelside blindspot. Given my most recent skiing was in pretty shitty conditions I stalked a few boarders and was kinda surprised how few of them were in the habit of chucking in shoulder checks on heelside turns ie. "i know I'm below you but you have no idea I'm here because you haven't looked and will be surprised when you turn into me"
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Where I ski in BC (Big White) there are a lot of boarders - maybe 30-40% of the total. That's how it feels anyway. With modern fat AM and powder skis I can't say I've ever been envious of boarders in the powder. Both can surf it effortlessly if you have the skills. But I've always thought skis are more versatile across the whole mountain and range of conditions. For those reasons I've never shown any interest in learning to board and if I was starting again from scratch today I would choose skis without the slightest doubt. But it would be nice in an ideal world to have the ability to do both at a high level, but that's unrealistic for me now. Maybe my kids will do both, move to the darkside or just stick to skiing. Either way I don't really mind.
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 Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Brokenbetty nailed it.

Snowboarding itself is changing with the 90's demographic bubble. Hence the trend away from freestyle and into surfstyle - something the ageing snowboarders can enjoy without as much risk.

Also to add - in NZ, Australia, Canada and States the % of boarders is still and has always been far higher than in Europe.
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 Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
There is no doubt boarders can ride powder earlier and more confidently than skiers on the same number of ski days. I was riding all over the mountain confidently on my first ever boarding holiday (having previously only ridden dryslope and a couple of isolated days falling in burns at Glencoe). Now I put that down to a sometimes painful but disciplining dryslope experience which led me to initiate and shape turns properly from the off but I definitely wasn't some sort of savant.
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@Dave of the Marmottes,
Reckon you are right that some of the skiers line in powder is tradition/habit but in my case it is often also Ďmaking the mostí of the powder. I kind of feel Iíve missed out if I only get a few of the floaty / surfy transitions in a big powder field. I tend to let the skis run more and make big turns once the slope is chopped up. I think my favourite terrain is trees and bushes where you are obliged to work with the terrain/obstacles, you often get the best snow and quite a lot of people get deterred
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 Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
tangowaggon wrote:
Boarding is mostly young people, most young people are crippled by high house prices.


It's not just the young who are crippled by house prices!

But in essence I think you are correct, the general cost of everyday living and lack of available income is a big factor in the 'young uns' going to resorts - especially with the current exchange rates.

This may also be possibly why there is a high proportion at slopes in the UK.
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Last week in St Anton it was about 30 to 1.




But for rarity these guys top'ed it, electric fat bikes on snow.

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jedster wrote:
@Dave of the Marmottes,
Reckon you are right that some of the skiers line in powder is tradition/habit but in my case it is often also Ďmaking the mostí of the powder. I kind of feel Iíve missed out if I only get a few of the floaty / surfy transitions in a big powder field. I tend to let the skis run more and make big turns once the slope is chopped up. I think my favourite terrain is trees and bushes where you are obliged to work with the terrain/obstacles, you often get the best snow and quite a lot of people get deterred


Me too. It should be a crime to straight line virgin powder! Fresh powder is something to savour and make the most of.
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 After all it is free Go on u know u want to!
After all it is free Go on u know u want to!
It's funny that there is a big disparity on the slopes, as in the indoor snow slopes it seems to be much more even. Def a lot more younger boarders, with skiers being more older.
I have to admit a lot of this has been on freestyle nights so less likely that skiers trying to perfect their carving would be there
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yep, dry slope or even snowdome == a short run on an uninspiring surfaces with no natural variation to enjoy. If what you do is face forwards and turn that gets dull very quickly. If what you do is put a kicker in it and learn tricks you can play for hours.

So by definition, people who go to dry/indoor slopes regularly will be ones who use the slope to play not to proceed.
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On a positive note, I'm a newly-minted snowboard instructor and I'm booked flat-out for pretty-much the whole season. Great variety of work too - fair bit of beginner stuff via ski schools (which is cool, no objection at all to teaching beginners!) plus plenty of off-piste and currently spending a full week with a very experienced rider who wants to "get off the plateau". Loving it!
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