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End of Cheap Air Travel

 Poster: A snowHead
Poster: A snowHead
http://www.cityam.com/273370/air-fares-some-europes-most-popular-destinations-including


Last edited by Poster: A snowHead on Tue 10-10-17 12:50; edited 2 times in total
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 Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
not a surprise at all, supply versus demand... restrict supply with Ryan Air & Monarch stopping flying won't necessarily effect demand so remaining operators will put up prices.

Basic economics!
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
@marcellus, I think operators are probably taking temporary advantage of the perceived shortage of supply as much as anything else. Actual supply has, overall, reduced very little and none at all on the majority of routes. In the short-term, I think prices will quickly return close to their normal level.

In the long-term, I can't help feeling that the current model is unsustainable. The average fare on Ryanair is €33. Despite evidence to the contrary it's very hard to understand how that model could possibly work.
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Even £100 is still cheap really, its not like you can drive to Milan for £100.

All that is happening in the short turn is people dont trust Ryanair, so they are looking elsewhere and as we all know when the seats get booked, the price goes up.

You can still fly to Grenobe with easy jet for £27.00 in Dec, "HARDLY THE DEATH OF CHEAP TICKETS"
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stanton wrote:
http://www.cityam.com/273370/air-fares-some-europes-most-popular-destinations-including


The writer of this article has not got a clue. Airfares to a couple of places have gone up by 43%? Why? Because they are advanced tickets and they searched the whole of Europe to find a few that fitted their argument..... or they didn't do their homework.

Or perhaps fares to DUB have gone up because of "positioning flights". A recent BA CSD I was chatting to said he is starting to notice it at DUB. Also ARL is another positioning airport.
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@Esdel, It is not just trust in RyanAir

Air Berlin has gone under, also Alitalia & Monarch

http://money.cnn.com/2017/10/02/news/europe-airlines-monarch-competition/index.html


Last edited by You'll need to Register first of course. on Tue 10-10-17 8:21; edited 1 time in total
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foxtrotzulu wrote:
@marcellus, I think operators are probably taking temporary advantage of the perceived shortage of supply as much as anything else. Actual supply has, overall, reduced very little and none at all on the majority of routes. In the short-term, I think prices will quickly return close to their normal level.

In the long-term, I can't help feeling that the current model is unsustainable. The average fare on Ryanair is €33. Despite evidence to the contrary it's very hard to understand how that model could possibly work.


Ryanair fly to places where the airports pay them to land. Then the airports get the shops to open or pay more rent because of the increased footfall at the airport.
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After all it is free Go on u know u want to!
stanton wrote:
@Esdel, It is not just trust in RyanAir

Air Berlin has gone under, also Alitalia & Monarchs

http://money.cnn.com/2017/10/02/news/europe-airlines-monarch-competition/index.html


AlItalia has filled for bankruptcy and is up for sale. Not totally bust yet.

Also, if you are on the same alliance (skyteam) . Booking a FCO business class via AMS on an Alitalia ticket but their alliance partner metal to Asia is really cheap. Happy
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GlasgowCyclops wrote:
stanton wrote:
http://www.cityam.com/273370/air-fares-some-europes-most-popular-destinations-including


The writer of this article has not got a clue.


Nor has the poster stanton who linked to it! wink Laughing
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Alastair Pink wrote:
GlasgowCyclops wrote:
stanton wrote:
http://www.cityam.com/273370/air-fares-some-europes-most-popular-destinations-including


The writer of this article has not got a clue.


Nor has the poster stanton who linked to it! wink Laughing


I think @stanton forgets that some people on here are flight savvy and know how to get even cheaper fares. . I'm off to ICN then fly back from HKG in a few weeks and it was £2000 more to go via PVG. But booking an open jaw and doing the link direct via CX means the link is £300 and not £2k.

Same as someone who goes skiing once a year at Christmas and always goes to Chamonix (sp?) will always pay more than us snowHead
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Its just another Business, and as a Business sometimes they fail, but pretty much they are replaced by another, some other institution will just come in and replace them.

Or probably Monarch will wipe out its debt and start again called Monarch ltd (etc), it happens all the time.

I've been told for the last 15 years prices will rise and I've seen no indication of that so far (Other than normal yearly inflation), as with everything just shop around.
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
The Dumb Fat@Alastair Pink, Fool is back.
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So if you're just off somewhere snowy come back and post a snow report of your own and we'll all love you very much
@stanton, The fishing's good today, thought you'd bite! Toofy Grin

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 You know it makes sense.
You know it makes sense.
marcellus wrote:
not a surprise at all, supply versus demand... restrict supply with Ryan Air & Monarch stopping flying won't necessarily effect demand so remaining operators will put up prices.

Basic economics!


Aye, all obvious stuff. Used to do a lot of Edin -> London for work.

We used Stansted as it suited destination in London. When Ryanair and Easyjet were both on the route, return flight was £29 regularly !! Amazing deals, we all agree.

Roll on to December 2017 when Ryanair have pulled the flight (due to their rostering cockups) and the cheapest Easyjet flight is £57.

Its still a cheap flight in my eyes.
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 Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
stanton wrote:
The Dumb Fat@Alastair Pink, Fool is back.
Stanton, we can see you are back with a refreshingly honest description of yourself. You really need to be less harsh on yourself and stay away from here
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 Poster: A snowHead
Poster: A snowHead
Airlines have come and gone I great numbers since the dawn of air travel. What you have to take into account is the colossal size of the locos. Last month Ryanair flew twice the number of passengers that Monarch flew in a year, Easyjet flew the same number of passengers in a month as Monarch flew in their final year. Meanwhile in the last 12 years Jet 2 Have grown from 2 old crates flying flowers from the Channel Islands to something bigger that Monarch, their success being the package holiday side supporting the airline whilst most other operators shunned that.
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 Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Airline pilots union BALPA’s general secretary Brian Strutton said: “The entire UK aviation sector which employs nearly a million people and carries more than 250 million passengers per annum would be devastated by a Brexit ‘no deal’.

“Unlike most other sectors there are no World Trade Organisation or any other rules to fall back on for aviation if there is no deal.

“UK airlines could find they have to stop flying – it’s that serious. And this would impact passengers long before March 2019 because airlines couldn’t sell advance tickets and, frankly, would passengers risk buying them?

“It is utter madness for anyone to think that a Brexit ‘no deal’ would be anything but a total disaster for our world leading UK aviation sector and beyond. After all, without air cargo we will not be able to export or import freely. The entire industry has said that we have to see evidence of the post-Brexit plan for aviation now if we are to avert a catastrophic crisis of confidence.”

http://www.airtrafficmanagement.net/2017/10/brexit-no-deal-would-spell-disaster-balpa/
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 Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
GlasgowCyclops wrote:


Also, if you are on the same alliance (skyteam) . Booking a FCO business class via AMS on an Alitalia ticket but their alliance partner metal to Asia is really cheap. Happy


I would love to know what this means - purely for interest, of course
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@Red Leon, me too - a combination of frequent flyer jargon and spellcheck I suspect😁😁
Let's face it in general flying is ridiculously cheap compared to what we used to have to pay. Found some old tickets recently - 1997, Gatwick/Geneva return - £150.
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Quote:

Let's face it in general flying is ridiculously cheap compared to what we used to have to pay.

Exactly and there's no need to 'stay a saturday night' to get the low price. Going anywhere in europe midweek for business back in the 80s was an arm and a leg affair. It was always £2-300 which is £8-900 in today's money.

Quote:

FCO business class via AMS

Rome via Amsterdam. HTH.
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Pruman wrote:

Exactly and there's no need to 'stay a saturday night' to get the low price. Going anywhere in europe midweek for business back in the 80s was an arm and a leg affair. It was always £2-300 which is £8-900 in today's money.


Bristol > Brussels return is about £700 if you do same day or one night. For a 45 min flight. Ouch.
I favour Eurostar on cost grounds, even from Bristol.

Gets cheaper the longer you stay.
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@RUGBY PETER,
Quote:

Let's face it in general flying is ridiculously cheap compared to what we used to have to pay. Found some old tickets recently - 1997, Gatwick/Geneva return - £150.


In today's money that would be £250.53 according to the BoE. I imagine that the range of fares for that route is from about £50 - £500. Fares might have come down over the years, but it would still be very easy to pay that sort of price for a ticket. In recent years when we have booked summer holiday tickets to Greece or France, we have often ended up paying around £250 pp.
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After all it is free Go on u know u want to!
Don't forget that 1997 ticket included a couple of suitcases (if you'd wanted to take them), which'd cost you 70 or 80GBP extra today.
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anarski wrote:
Don't forget that 1997 ticket included a couple of suitcases

And a meal, a newspaper and a full bar service!
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Red Leon wrote:
GlasgowCyclops wrote:


Also, if you are on the same alliance (skyteam) . Booking a FCO business class via AMS on an Alitalia ticket but their alliance partner metal to Asia is really cheap. Happy


I would love to know what this means - purely for interest, of course


Let's say you know that KLM as an example fly from AMS (amsterdam) to somewhere in Asia. What you do is look at their partner airlines (for example Al Italia) for options from airports that link to AMsterdam. Why bother? Well if you are in the UK you would need to get to AMS anyway so going to Rome first (FCO) then booking the trip on an Al Italia ticket may be miles cheaper than the KLM ticket (especially at the last minute).
I.E. Heathrow - Rome- Amsterdam - Seoul instead of Heathrow-Amsterdam - Seoul.


On many occasions you can get business class on these long haul flights for a tiny amount more than economy. However, you get the business class advantages of extra baggage for free and a bed.

Quite a lot of the time you will actually be on the other airlines metal (physical aircraft) e.g. AlItalia ticket but KLM planes (metal) so there would be no difference in the service.
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@GlasgowCyclops, I guess that since you are used to taking a connecting flight for international travel, your 3 flights instead of 1 or 2 scenario makes more sense Very Happy I only consider a connecting flight if there are no direct options from Heathrow / Gatwick (such as getting to Hokkaido).

I do agree on the often bizarre savings that can be had on linked flights. Around 10 years ago I was working on projects in Malta and Cyprus, the only flight option was a weekly round trip from Gatwick to Malta to Cyprus to Heathrow. Bizarrely the Malta / Cyprus leg was cheapest in Emirates Business class, it was even cheaper than Economy on the same plane rolling eyes
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
@GlasgowCyclops, interesting stuff. Have already added 'metal' to my list of jargon to be wheeled out when circumstances permit👍🏻👍🏻
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 So if you're just off somewhere snowy come back and post a snow report of your own and we'll all love you very much
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There you have it .. Official from a UK Senior Government Minister.

http://metro.co.uk/2017/10/11/flights-between-the-uk-and-eu-could-be-suspended-on-day-of-brexit-6991909/


I doubt there be a single insurance company that will now off any cover.
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 You know it makes sense.
You know it makes sense.
@stanton, you've clearly not read the article, have you:

Quote:
He said: ‘It is theoretically conceivable that in a no deal scenario there will be no air traffic moving between the UK and the European Union on the 29th March 2019. But I don’t think anybody seriously believes that that is where we will get to.


rolling eyes
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 Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
stanton wrote:
There you have it .. Official from a UK Senior Government Minister.

http://metro.co.uk/2017/10/11/flights-between-the-uk-and-eu-could-be-suspended-on-day-of-brexit-6991909/


I doubt there be a single insurance company that will now off any cover.


So @Stanton.

To paraphrase the article you've linked and change it a bit...

"It's theoretically conceivable that an alien life form could land and say hi to us all or decide to wipe us of the face of the planet with their death ray on the 25th of December 2017..... But I don’t think anybody seriously believes that that is where we will get to."

Did you actually read the article? Is Your understanding of English that poor (why don't you brush up with some books whilst the taxi rank is quiet). To turn it around do you seriously think that the situation will happen and that on that day there will be no flights from the UK>EU or EU>UK?

As Mr McEnroe said quite often "You cannot be serious man"
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