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Help - Another which ski or skis question

 Poster: A snowHead
Poster: A snowHead
Help! I think I need new skis but Iím not sure which way to go.

I ski for 28 days in the season, mainly on piste and itineries but next year Iím looking to take off piste lessons and improve this part of my abilities with an aim of skiing more off piste (think mountaintracks intro to off piste courses)

Iím 177cm & 82kg (5í10Ē / 13st in old money) and Iím level 8/9 on the inside out skiing levels. I currently ski Whitedot ZeroOne in 172cm which arenít really suitable for piste or off piste but I do enjoy them.

Iím looking at getting some 90-100cm waist skis for off piste (maybe Volkl 90eights) and maybe some Blizzard Latigos for mainly piste days, both in 177cm length.

Is there a single ski for me?
If not, are more choices on the right line?
Thanks for any advice
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dhorst wrote:
I currently ski Whitedot ZeroOne in 172cm which arenít really suitable for piste or off piste but I do enjoy them.


Errrr what sorry? Can you quantify that statement a little better at all?
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Whitedot R98 trad
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If you wanted to stay with Whitedot I think I'd recommend Preachers over R98s because IMO their piste ability is better. You do have to ride them quite hard though so you need to be a reasonably competent and confident skier.

Personally I think the Preacher is the closest I've ever got to a one-ski solution but I don't think there is a great solution to be had. 2 pairs. Something narrow with camber, sidecut and a hard sharp edge; plus something flatter and wider for the powder days. I feel that with most qualities of the ski, everything you do to make it perform better on the hard stuff compromises it's performance in the soft.
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@dp, My current ZeroOnes are very soft and feel like a playful park ski. I thought I would need wider for off piste and stiffer for on piste.
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@dhorst, if you're in resort for 28 days a year, although you'll be limited to what's available, try various things before you buy. 90eights are quite nice and pretty forgiving and would suit an I/O level 8 I would imagine.
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Nordica Enforcer 100
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Thanks for the responses, they are very helpful.
Am I correct in aiming for 177 lengths in both my piste and off piste ski - I normally ski slightly shorter, around the 170cm mark.
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At 177cm tall and level 8/9 I wouldn't be afraid of pushing to 179 rockered skis if not even a bit more.

When I was buying my preachers I was pretty dead set against going beyond 175 with a ski and Jon pushed me a bit longer. He was right, the rocker thing makes a huge difference to how they ski, and the extra length gives a bit more float, bit more edge to work with on firmer pistes.

I would try the preachers, I loved the Zero One, and I love my preachers. I've genuinely given up taking piste skis away with me, even on piste based weeks they still have plenty of hold. I managed to just about hold an edge down an icy Harikiri in January, they seem to hold better than a lot of the narrower skis I've tried in recent years.

If you are going for a more off piste oriented ski they are worth a look.
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@dhorst, Hi. Im in Leicester and have a pair of 179cm Whitedot Preachers Carbonlite skis for sale. Call it fate! I also ski Whitedot Ones and used the Preachers for off piste. The Preachers can do pretty much everything.
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Thanks @charliesimpson, I'm only just venturing into proper off piste so 112mm waist terrifies me!
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@dhorst, honestly with the Preacher you'd never believe you're skiing something 112mm underfoot. You can ski them like an 80mm, not even joking. They basically have an enormous sidecut.

Don't be put off by the numbers, it's about what works for you. The Preacher doesn't behave like a 112mm powder ski, at all. It behaves like an 80-88mm all mountain ski. I have Whitedot 118mm Ragnaroks and lots of people told me that until I was a super gnarly free skier, 118mm would be too much. But again they're the ski I'm most comfortable on, and I've tried plenty others. Don't be bogged down by a number, there's so much more to ski design than how wide they are.
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@dp, to be fair though you are a big lad and the Rag to you is like a 100mm ski might be to a smaller person.
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Valid, but my point remains that the number is only part of the story. The Preacher is an exception to the ski width rule, I swear if you blind tested a pair and you weren't allowed to look down, you'd swear blind you were skiing an 80mm all mountain.

Lots of people get bogged down with "do I need 95mm or 100mm or 105mm" and the answer is... the one that you enjoy the most when you ski it.
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I agree with what is being said about the Preacher Ė it doesn't feel wide when you ski it, just like a good all mountain ski. That said, holding an edge on hardpack isn't necessarily easy. You need to be committed and drive the skis hard, so if that doesn't sound like you then maybe try something that's less of an animal. If you don't work the Preachers in the way they were designed for, they will kick you up the backside. (I say this as someone who tested them first thing in the morning, got taught a lesson by them, and handed them back while I was still in one piece.)
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 Poster: A snowHead
Poster: A snowHead
two points from a curmudgeon. If you look at the WD site, the effective edge of iirc a 177 is 152cms. my 4'10" mother was skiing 150s back when they were called compacts. Rocker does a huge job in making the ski feel short and in my view is a nonsense on piste.

width is a different matter as I keep banging on - ye cannae break the rules of engineering (which is physics) - wide skis on a hard surface are more effort to set and hold on edge. by definition. Anything that requires you to raise your body weight is more work requiring more strength for equal effect and more energy.

I did a back of the fag packet calc and I can't recall the result but I think the inflection is around 100mm.
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Just for clarification, the Preacher isn't rockered, it's a conventional camber twin tip.
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@Scarlet, definitely... I think you have to take charge with the Preachers otherwise they will take you out for a ride rather than visa versa.

But if you can build the confidence the really sling them around with a bit of weight, they're pretty formidable. I had a brilliant few hours in VT with Nick absolutely hammering a set of Preachers around (and him I think having quite a lot of fun on some R98s? Whichever Ranger he doesn't have) and I think the strange thing about them is that the further you push the boat out, the more secure they actually feel.

Not suggesting you can't take charge of a pair of skis, they're quite burly things for a relatively little person so fair play for trying!!!
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The Preachers are great fun and ski really well in soft snow and carve like they are on rails when on piste. The traditional camber means you have to weight and unweight them a lot to get the best out of them, (unlike flat or rocker skis which you can smear)which makes for a great feeling of powerful carving. I find the big drawback of the Preachers is on ice due to the short radius whether on or off piste. Traversing a steep icy slope or side-slipping a narrow icy chute with daylight between the centre of the ski and slope can be disconcerting. On icy pistes you may loose some fillings, also the width can be hard on the knees with shear stress when the fat skis are only supported on their very edges on hard ice.

I really enjoy the Ones (normal version) on piste but my ability is not great enough to get them to ski well in deep soft snow, other skiers better than me have found the same, so they are not really an "all mountain ski" going by today's forgiving ski standards

I've recently got some R.98s for touring and they have really surprised me as a great all rounder on and off piste (I've not had chance to try them in deep soft snow yet but their width should be sufficient). The very long radius gets over the ice problems with the Preachers; I found them very manoeuvrable on piste and fine on short radius turns when using lots of weighting/unweighting to bend them. I'll see how they get on for me with deep soft snow and could be tempted to sell the Preachers and Ones (Although losing the Preachers would be a bit of an emotional wrench)
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On the rocks wrote:
could be tempted to sell the Preachers


what size are they? Very Happy

On the rocks wrote:
Traversing a steep icy slope or side-slipping a narrow icy chute with daylight between the centre of the ski and slope can be disconcerting.


I laughed that you said disconcerting. I think in many ways, Preachers are psychologically difficult! Besides the sidecut which as you say gives you daylight between the mountain and the ski, the width underfoot also means that the edge is basically on a cantilever out from the bottom of your boot. It feels weird to me that if I'm traversing something, my foot isn't actually putting it's weight into the snow. Directly under my foot - the other side of the ski - is thin air, because the ski is resting on the mountain higher up than where I'm stood. I think that's a weird feeling.
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@On the rocks, I may be misinterpreting, but modern technique doesn't really require unweighting Puzzled
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@dhorst, I took the plunge and bought some 90eights on eBay a few weeks ago as a one ski quiver. I haven't tried them, but they seem to have good reviews. My criteria is for an all mountain ski with a soft snow bias that can bang out all turn shapes and not too heavy or stiff. We shall see.........
Recent skis tried:-
Icelantic Shaman brilliant in soft snow not much fun on hard snow. Have been compared to the
Preacher.
Pre rocker Movement Jam a little better on hard pistes but not as good off piste as the Shaman.
Movement Player disappointingly dull on piste compared to the Jam.
Atomic Automatic 115 reluctant to to make short or even medium turns. Too fat for a one ski quiver.
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Scarlet wrote:
I agree with what is being said about the Preacher Ė it doesn't feel wide when you ski it, just like a good all mountain ski. That said, holding an edge on hardpack isn't necessarily easy. You need to be committed and drive the skis hard, so if that doesn't sound like you then maybe try something that's less of an animal. If you don't work the Preachers in the way they were designed for, they will kick you up the backside. (I say this as someone who tested them first thing in the morning, got taught a lesson by them, and handed them back while I was still in one piece.)


I agree with all of this. I have a set of Carbon preachers 179cm I'm 178cm and 84kg. On piste they are great but a LOT of work. I am thinking of getting a set of Scott SLITE's instead as all mountain and keep the preachers for the deep stuff. I loved the Scotts on a recent ski test. Or sell the preachers.
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@GlasgowCyclops, did you try the Scott Superguide? They'd make an excellent all mountain ski, and much easier on hardpack than either the Preacher or Director.
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Scarlet wrote:
@GlasgowCyclops, did you try the Scott Superguide? They'd make an excellent all mountain ski, and much easier on hardpack than either the Preacher or Director.


Nope. I tried these
https://www.glisshop.co.uk/alpine_ski/scott/slight_93-115087.html

NOW I recommend giving SpyderJon a call for these. He has a better deal than this but no pics on his site yet.
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@GlasgowCyclops, it doesn't say what lengths they're in. Do you know? Possibly too big for me which might be why I didn't try them.
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 And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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Scarlet wrote:
@GlasgowCyclops, it doesn't say what lengths they're in. Do you know? Possibly too big for me which might be why I didn't try them.


I think the ones I tried were 175cm and 93 underfoot.
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@GlasgowCyclops, ok, perfect for you but I was on 168 Superguides. I'd need a very hefty rocker to get on a 175!
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under a new name wrote:
@On the rocks, I may be misinterpreting, but modern technique doesn't really require unweighting Puzzled

I'm sure you are a much better skier than me, but I find a wide range of techniques to choose from for different snow conditions and ski construction has helped me to progress
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Puzzled
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